Jonathan Spear Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Ok, I know I'll end up alone on this one but what the he-ll... After that intense thread about age vs. experience in the realm of filmmaking I was left somewhat confused about the issue at hand. Yes, having both at the same time is the ideal solution but life doesn't always work out that way - and some people never get a chance to have their voice heard. Fightign, arguing, finger pointing and calling people out, especially on a forum dedicated to cinematography is rude and annoying -- but interesting nonetheless. Where do we get the tools, the inner strength, the imagination, creativity and passion to do what we're doing? Should age, experience, connections and knowledge of the industry be a consideration to a hollywood producer looking for a DP to shoot his next 100,000,000$ feature -- or should talent, creativity, drive, passion and a nice demo reel? Instead of resorting to name calling, rudeness and disrespect - why not have a little fun? A 20 page screenplay contest. That's right follks. You think you know what life is all about? What your purpose and meaning is? Why the world works the way it does? More impotantly - do you think your maturing age will give you any more insight into the human condition?? Can a kid write a good screenplay? Can an industry pro write a bad one? All these questions and many more may be answered... And I for one would REALLY REALLY LOVE to see some of you creative people give writing a shot. Ya never know...it might end up being second nature and it will definately be an interesting read. As far as copyrighting goes -- yes, register them at WGA first incase any of us come up with something above average B) . Well whaddaya say? A panel of judges shouldn't be hard to muster up, and 1st prize could be to post your screenplay as a thread for feedback (considering the pro's on this board - that would be a TREMENDOUS first prize :) ) I'm in. Anyone else?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Belics Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 This would go over better on a writers forum not a forum for cinematographers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 "Can a kid write a good screenplay?" No. "Can an industry pro write a bad one?" Yes. FRank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 "Can a kid write a good screenplay?" No. FRank <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're probably right...but there have been cases throughout history Did you know Emily Bronte was only 15 when she wrote Wuthering Heights... And Arthur Rimbaud catalogue of poetry was written before the age of 19 I hardly know any pros who could muster up poems or a novel such as that... No matter the amount of experience... Creativity can come in all age and sizes... Let's not knock those younger than us just because they don't know everything Because we don't know everything either... People can always surprise you no matter their age...remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 Do we have any examples from the last 75 years of cinema history where some one under the age of 19 wrote a feature film that had mainstream distribution? Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Andino Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 I think Harmony Korine wrote kids when he was like 20...if I'm not mistaken It wasn't older than 25 I'm sure of it...when Kids was made Although that was a low budget indie film that went to worldwide distribution The Same with clerks--Kevin Smith was 22 when he wrote it. I'll look it up to see but I'm sure there've been screenplays written For popular movies by folks between the ages of 19-25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetorian Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 (edited) Sounds like fun. You'd have to give me a couple of months...I barely have time to write my papers for class. Like said above, it really is out of place, but it is more of an offtopic thing. Could be interesting... Edited February 24, 2005 by Phantom's_Christine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landon D. Parks Posted February 24, 2005 Share Posted February 24, 2005 (edited) This may surprise you coming from me, but I dont think a lot of kids could write a good screenplay, and IM NOT the exception either. But then again, VERY FEW people can. Thats why there is so much crape in theaters. Thats why I am not a writer, I would not attempt to write a seriouse screenplay until I thought I had something and the ability to write it. Thats not to say a 14 year old cant write a good screenplay! It just never happends because VERY FEW PEOPLE of ANY age can write a good screenplay. I once read a Book by a 13 year old girl that was probably one of the best books I read. I think she would write a good screenplay. But would I approach her to write one for me? No. I wont someone with experiance and someone who has several GOOD screenplays in the theaters. Directing is one thing, but writing is a whole other. IMO, very few directors can screw up a solid script, but if the script is trash in the first place, everyone down the line will be affected. I think thats what a lot of people are seeing today, when they say "Hes a bad director..". Well, that may be some of it, but chances are it was the script that was bad, not the director. The Director can only do what is on the page, and if whats on the page is trash he has three options: 1. Try to salvage it, 2. Walk away, 3. Make a bad movie. Just my opinion. Edited February 24, 2005 by Landon D. Parks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Spear Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Spear Posted February 24, 2005 Author Share Posted February 24, 2005 "Can a kid write a good screenplay?" No. "Can an industry pro write a bad one?" Yes. FRank ------------------------------------------- Come on Frank. This would be a great oppurtunity to prove your point. Why not? :) If you win I'll learn a valuable lesson in modesty, restraint, reality and respect. If one of us wins you'll learn something too.. It's a win-win situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidSloan Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 The film Thirteen was written, or co written, by a 13 year old girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 "Come on Frank. This would be a great oppurtunity to prove your point. Why not?" You have a real obsession with trying to prove that any one over 30 must be a bitter twisted failure. The instant a working pro knocks one of your half baked ideas you take offense and view it as a "young vs old" war. I really hope you win an Oscar with in two years of leaving school or you're going to crash hard. It is going to be very interesting following your career. Frank PS: When you do write and post this screenplay that will prove we are all a bunch of old folks who sit around all day farting dust, please use a spell checker of some kind. It would be a great "oppUrtunity" for us all to read some thing you wrote that isn't full of spelling errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 "I'll learn a valuable lesson in modesty, restraint, reality and respect." Oh, and leaving school and entering the real world will do this for you quite nicely. You won't need any help from me or any one else for this to happen. I can 100% guarantee that! Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landon D. Parks Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 The film Thirteen was written, or co written, by a 13 year old girl. Well, ok. There is proof that someone that age can write a screenplay. However, I never seen the film so I have no idea how the film turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Spear Posted February 25, 2005 Author Share Posted February 25, 2005 Hey, "You have a real obsession with trying to prove that any one over 30 must be a bitter twisted failure." You don't honestly think i believe that do you? "The instant a working pro knocks one of your half baked ideas you take offense and view it as a "young vs old" war." Hardly. I'm honored you're even giving me the time of day. Hey Frank, look, people disagree. Just because I desagreed with you a few times doesn't mean I have anything personal against you - i don't know you and i'm not someone who wastes time hating people. life is too short for that. and seriously... you're a working profesional. you've recieved awards. i'm a nobody. but i like to write and i love reading screeplays, and the thought of having a (meaningless) "contest" between unseasoned young amateurs and industry pro's isn't because of some inferiority complex or jealousy or anything like that. i would SERIOUSLY love to see what people who already love filmmaking would write about; how they see our world and the human condition, their storytelling skills and GOD FORBID -- this would be an excellent chance to actually learn something new on more than one level. but never mind. you all probably see hiddden motives or a young inexperienced weird kid trying to get some attention. too bad. i was kind of looking forward to doing this thing... eh. at least i tried, right... peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felipe Perez-Burchard Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 Not trying to steer the topic to much, but this post gave me the idea... I would love to see stills work from the forum users; I know the SMPSP is having a gallery right now and there was a recent show of different DPs stills work acording to AC mag. Anyone? -felipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Spear Posted February 25, 2005 Author Share Posted February 25, 2005 "Not trying to steer the topic to much, but this post gave me the idea... I would love to see stills work from the forum users; I know the SMPSP is having a gallery right now and there was a recent show of different DPs stills work acording to AC mag" that's a great idea, count me in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Gossimier Posted February 25, 2005 Share Posted February 25, 2005 "but never mind. you all probably see hiddden motives or a young inexperienced weird kid trying to get some attention." Again, as others have mentioned this is a cinematography forum, not a writing forum. If you want to have a "boy wonder vs the world" contest then you and the other boy geniuses can post some of your amazing DP work. Upload it to the web with a link from here. This is not a stills photography forum either, cinema is all about motion, so why bother posting stills from cinema projects? In the resumes section there are several people who have posted links to their on-line reels. And there is some pretty amazing stuff being shot by people on this forum! I would like to see if the boy genius group can compete with any of that work. Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) If you want to have a "boy wonder vs the world" contest then you and the other boy geniuses can post some of your amazing DP work. Upload it to the web with a link from here. This is not a stills photography forum either, cinema is all about motion, so why bother posting stills from cinema projects? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well for a start when your young it's very hard getting hold of descent equipment. And let's be honest, you HAVE to use good equipment for it to at least look half descent. It's not a "a bad workman always blames his tools" thing. Give me a camera and equipment that will do it and I'll create pro results worthy of being included in films of the cinema today. For a start I find it funny how all you pro's judge people by their technical knowledge. Technical knowledge, is useful to a degree but a lot of the time in the field it means didly squat. It's the ability to frame correctly, know what filters to use, what aperture to use e.t.c. Stills show EXACTLY how we can frame, it's just a cheaper version of practicing with 35mm. If you want to see some of examples of my framing and ideas then I'll post them no problem. But you guys just want to see technical talk. (Imao) For all you know some of the younger people on this board who haven't even had much experience could be naturals at this. They could be some of the greatest cinematographers on this board or even the world. Just because I don't know what a flange valve is e.t.c. doesn't mean I can't create good looking shots. I am saving up for a days shoot in the summer right now which will include a HD camera and many other cool bits of equipment. I will use it for my reel. I'm guessing it will cost me about £1500 (Possibly more). Just wait until I shoot it, then you?ll see that us younger ones aren't completely useful because we are inexperienced. Edited February 26, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 "Well for a start when your young it's very hard getting hold of descent equipment. And let's be honest, you HAVE to use good equipment for it to at least look half descent. It's not a "a bad workman always blames his tools" thing." Response: If you want your work judged against other students then enter it in student film festivals. Most people here are working pros, and if you want to post your work here, then it will be evaluated against what pros can do. "Give me a camera and equipment that will do it and I'll create pro results worthy of being included in films of the cinema today. Response: I said I wouldn't "engage" you any more, but, the statement you make above is so ridiculous and very insulting to all of the seasoned pros here. You insist that if we give you a Panavision camera that you will create work equal to that of Caleb Deschanel, Conrad Hall, David Mullen? Clearly you have no idea how crazy your statement is. Now come on guys...I'm sure that at least three(3) working pros will back me up on this with your posts. Do you believe that if we simply give 16 year old Daniel J. Ashley-Smith the top of the line gear that his work will be, "worthy of being included in films of the cinema today." Please back me up and tell me I am not the only one here who thinks that is a very incorrect view point. Mr. Ashley-Smith will not believe me alone. When he is shown that some one has achieved some credibility in this industry he dissmisses them as having won a few "bits of tin." Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landon D. Parks Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 (edited) I agree with Daniel here... How can a kid with a video camera be expected to compete with a large production with fancy 35mm cameras and cranes and dollies and so on.... It cant. People judge films on everal technical quality just as much as story quality. If it looks like poop, it will be poop. Story is only so much! If you cant stand to sit through the film because you had to held held all the shoots because you could'nt afford a Dolly or you had to use all static shots because you could'nt afford a dolly or crane, ect. Dolly shots or crane shots will increase production value, but 16 year old kids cant afford a chapman dolly or a technocrane. Does anyone disagree? I guess I could go out and build a large crane and a dolly though. then you coulod have to have a chapman or a techno. It would probably produce just as good of results! Edited February 26, 2005 by Landon D. Parks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 Well call me arrogant, but yes give me a descent camera and I promise you I will produce work that could be in a cinema film. Ridiculous, stupid, pathetic, call it whatever, I couldn't care less. Because until July/August when I shoot that short I'll have to wait. Oh and no if someone was to give me a 35mm cine camera I probably would struggle with it. It's not as though I have used one before so I don't feel confident. DVCPRO or HD, no prob. When he is shown that some one has achieved some credibility in this industry he dissmisses them as having won a few "bits of tin." Well considering you were boasting about them at the time and also being offensive, very offensive, what did you expect? A well done? Hey I always congratulate people for their success, but not when they start boasting and being offensive to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landon D. Parks Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 The way I see it is this. If you have a good script, you can find investors regardless of age. Hire another producer to produce the script so long as you can stay on as director. Its called "Holding the script hostage". Or just hire a producer to handle getting investors.... It helps if your at least 18 so you can enter in to the LLC along with the rest of the producers though. But thats where Emancipation comes in I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 "Well call me arrogant, but yes give me a descent camera and I promise you I will produce work that could be in a cinema film." Come on pros where the heck are you? Back me up please! Then again...why do I or any one else care? "Well considering you were boasting about them at the time" Go back and review the post I did NOT boast about them at all! My exact words where, "You can draw your own conclusions". Any way, I will wait with great anticipation for this "stuff" you shoot in the summer that will be worthy of being in any "cinema film". I can't wait. And Landon, are you reading Daniel's posts? He says that he CAN compete with the pros. Good grief what am I doing? I'm debating teenagers! Will the power company please cut the juice to my house so that this damn computer will go off! Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landon D. Parks Posted February 26, 2005 Share Posted February 26, 2005 he is saying he can do it if he has professional equipment... same thing Im saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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