SCREENPLAY CONTEST!

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

"Well call me arrogant, but yes give me a descent camera and I promise you I will produce work that could be in a cinema film."

 

Come on pros where the heck are you?  Back me up please! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So you need backup to prove a point, you can't do it by yourself?

 

Then again...why do I or any one else care?

Exactly, why do you care? Is it because you want to have a dig at a few hopeful teenagers for the satisfaction? Let us have our dreams, and we?ll let you have yours.

 

 

I can compete with pro's to a certain level IF I have the equipment. I am confident I could shoot a good looking film with HD, or DVCPRO, and some other bits of equipment. Either way pro?s DO have advantages over me, i.e. experience, but talent CAN come naturally you know.

 

Go back and review the post I did NOT boast about them at all!  My exact words where, "You can draw your own conclusions". 

You also said that you have more awards than TSM and I could collect in 10 life times. You were boasting.

 

Thing is I could have handled the boasting, but right from the start you automatically started being offensive. Negative comments = negative feedback.

 

I on the other hand tried to remain sensible about things. I could have started being really offensive to you, but I am mature enough not to.

 

Good grief what am I doing?  I'm debating teenagers!  Will the power company please cut the juice to my house so that this damn computer will go off!

Yeh well were not the *average* teenagers. I don't spend my whole life socialising and wasting time, unlike most teenagers. I actually like to use my time constructively. Which pays off believe it or not. But I?m no unsociable geek, I still do weekly social events.

Edited February 26, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Guest]

"So you need backup to prove a point, you can't do it by yourself?

I can compete with pro's to a certain level IF I have the equipment. I am confident I could shoot a good looking film with HD, or DVCPRO, and some other bits of equipment. Either way pro?s DO have advantages over me, i.e. experience, but talent doesn?t always come with practice you know."

 

Uh oh, sounds like you're beginning to lose faith in your abilities?

 

"pro?s DO have advantages over me"

 

As for shooting a good looking film, remember this has to be a film that can compete with any "cinema film" as you have clearly stated. So when you get this HD camera I assume your work will be equal to any other HD films in the theatres. You've said you can do it, now let's see it.

 

"You also said that you have more awards than TSM and I could collect in 10 life times. You were boasting."

 

Until you and TSM prove other wise, I'll stand by my comment. ie, you guys go out and win pro awards. At least my awards are not based on speculation, they exist. Your claim of shooting "cinema film" quality work is strictly a theory at this stage.

 

As for needing others to prove my point? No I don't need others to prove my point, but you clearly need to hear what I'm saying from other people.

 

Richard.

 

PS: Yes I have phoned the power company, they should be shutting off my electricity soon, thus ending these endless and silly debates with teen wing of the forum.

 

PSS: Any pros tired of the teenagers can give the CML list a try. If Mr. Daniel J. Ashley-Smith posted his "I can shoot cinema film" quality work on there, the response would be a whole lot different than it is here.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Uh oh, sounds like you're beginning to lose faith in your abilities?

Imao My abilities to frame are fine, my ability to operate a camera I've never even touched before on the other hand is slightly over my head.

 

You've said you can do it, now let's see it.

Believe me I can't wait.

 

Your claim of shooting "cinema film" quality work is strictly a theory at this stage.

I know I can, you or other people don't though. But, we?ll see with this project.

 

As for needing others to prove my point?  No I don't need others to prove my point, but you clearly need to hear what I'm saying from other people.

Other people can say what they like, but at the end of the day you or they don't know me or my abilities. So for all you and others know I could be brilliant at it, but you don't think that because it hasn't been proven. Well, just wait.

 

If Mr. Daniel J. Ashley-Smith posted his "I can shoot cinema film" quality work on there, the response would be a whole lot different than it is here. "

To be honest I couldn't care less if people from here or the CML think it won't be good, all I know is it WILL be good and your soul crushing comments drive me even harder.

Edited February 26, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Landon D. Parks]

sorry for being stupid, but whats CML? :blink:

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

sorry for being stupid, but whats CML?  :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cinematography Mailing List.

 

CML

 

Dont worry it's not being stupid, I didn't know myself, but google filled in the answers for me.

Edited February 27, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Guest]

"all I know is it WILL be good and your soul crushing comments drive me even harder."

 

Glad I could be of service in some way. :D

 

Remember, we want to see "cinema" quality work, those are your OWN words not mine. You will be making some thing that could be shown in a theatre that people will pay money to see.

 

That's the challenge you've set for your self, not me.

 

For the record...I've been shooting film for a long time and make a decent living at it. I would not presume for one second to think I could waltz onto the set of a 100 million dollar Hollywood movie and take over the DP position. Not by a long shot.

 

So I guess I will be eating a good helping of humble pie when a 16 year old puts up some work that in his own words..."yes give me a descent camera and I promise you I will produce work that could be in a cinema film."

 

Ok, can't wait to see it!

 

Richard

[Guest Frank Gossimier]

Don't worry Richard, you will not be eating any humble pie.

 

However, your buddy Daniel J. Ashley-Smith is going to be eating copious amounts of it :D

 

Well these teens are great for creating a very funny read!

 

Frank

[Landon D. Parks]

Daniel, produce the best work possible so you can prove to Mr. Boddington that someone can actually be better than he is. I'll try my best, and maybee we can BOTH prove them wronge. But I'll hold judgement till I'm done and Roger Ebert gives me a "Two thumbs up" rating. Until then, Us "Teens" are relying on you to produce A+ results, dont let us down.

 

Maybee you can prove a Teen can be a Cinematographer and I can prove we can be Directors :) . Only time will tell....

Edited February 27, 2005 by Landon D. Parks

[Guest]

"Maybee you can prove a Teen can be a Cinematographer and I can prove we can be Directors"

 

I think that's a brilliant idea! Landon you should fly over to the UK this summer, you can direct the epic and Daniel can shoot it.

 

"so you can prove to Mr. Boddington that someone can actually be better than he is"

 

FYI, I never said I was the best, if you read my posts you can see where I clearly stated the opposite. Hundreds of DPs are superior to me.

 

"Until then, Us "Teens" are relying on you to produce A+ results, dont let us down. "

 

Uh oh Daniel the hopes of youth rest on your shoulders, I hope you pull through with this work that is so good it will be same quality of what we see in the theatres.

 

BTW, can you give us a more precise date on when you'll be ready to present your work?

 

Richard

 

PS: If you aspired to a more realistic goal, ie Best Student Cinematography, every one would support you. But when you claim that you'll produce work of the same calibre as the DPs with 20+ years of experience, you can see (or I guess not) why you get flack.

[Landon D. Parks]

You know Richard, I cant seem to find an IMDB profile for you. Any film that is worth seeing is usually listed on IMDB, and generally they always list there DP's. I find it strange that your name appears no where on there.

 

PS) No, Im not on there, so dont bother.

[Felipe Perez-Burchard]

I really, really want to stay away from this discussion... but... arghh, I have to say something.

 

Give me a camera and equipment that will do it and I'll create pro results worthy of being included in films of the cinema today.

 

sorry man, but that's like saying give me a really good hammer and I can make a house like frank lloyd wright. Or a brush to be Velasquez.

 

also you are saying that better technology makes better artists wich in a sense is also like saying any filmmaker of today would be better than Orson Welles or Kurosawa, or take your pic.

 

the french new wave guys are a testament to the fact that the tools don't really matter, they were using whatever they could get their hands on, creating compelling stories and characters and allowing the freedom gained by the lesser tools to be visually inventive.

 

Filmmaking is the most collaborative artistic medium and anyone who works in it knows that you rely on your teamates; thats's part of why so many filmmaking parterships stick, because the people are better artists put together, trusting each other, cameras can't give you input.

 

You know Richard, I cant seem to find an IMDB profile for you. Any film that is worth seeing is usually listed on IMDB, and generally they always list there DP's. I find it strange that your name appears no where on there.

 

just keep in mind that the IMDB is mainly for motion picture films, there are tons of impressively talented people working in commercials and music videos that aren't on there.

 

Just opinions here.

 

And experience does inform talent because it allows you to problem solve a different way and create imagery that you might not be able to have concieved without it.

 

-felipe.

[J.M. O'Malley]

I'm going to jump in here because I can't resist a good argument. I think young people are not taken seriously because they usually have no craft. It seems to have a lot less to do with their ideas. As mentioned, it's true that throughout time people have made beautiful art using sub-standard means, but the point is not that they didn't care about equipment. The point is they had shitty equipment and learned how to squeeze something great out of it. I'm sure they would rather have had more modern, reliable equipment. Walker Evans (a photographer) had equipment that people made fun of, but he learned what he could do with it instead of blaming it for his shortcomings.

 

I'm from a studio arts background, and one of the first things that you learn there is that the hard part is execution, i.e. making something look stunning visually and not depending on content to get you through. Executing something well takes a long time to learn because at first your hands don't do the right things, you have to train them. I am learning cinematography and it seems the same.

 

I will also mention that in my efforts to learn I've joined a few film forums, and so far the "old guys" on here have been the only people helping with my questions. The younger people on, for example, filmmaking.com, tend to take the attitude of "who cares about film stock, exposure, equipment, etc. I just want to do my ideas." I think younger artists and filmmakers would be taken more seriously if they were more earnest.

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

sorry man, but that's like saying give me a really good hammer and I can make a house like frank lloyd wright. Or a brush to be Velasquez.

Well not exactly, it's slightly different in the case of building a house. Anyone can point a camera and press the record button. All I'm saying is I know how to frame and can judge DOF e.t.c.

 

also you are saying that better technology makes better artists wich in a sense is also like saying any filmmaker of today would be better than Orson Welles or Kurosawa, or take your pic.

Well I have a crappy consumer MiniDV camera, won't do progressive scan, about 400,000 pixels total.

 

There?s no possible way I am using that for the film I will use in my reel. It's just not good enough quality. I want this to look good, it's not about the story. (Actually the stories crap)

 

 

Everyone will see in July or August just what a teen can do. I already have many of the shots planned in my head, and if they go like that on the actual day, boy will I be expecting some apologies.

 

Bare in mind, yes I said I could produce cinema quality work and I stand by it, but this project is going to be cinema *quality* it's not actually going to be a film that someone would pay money to watch. When I say quality I mean the cinematography, sound, lighting e.t.c. Not the story. I mean at the end of the day it's a 10/15 minute short.

Edited February 27, 2005 by Daniel J. Ashley-Smith

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

All I need is this project to prove myself. That's it.

 

I heard Landon may have a big project coming up, I wish him all the luck in it. Because I bet he's going to want to prove himself with it.

 

 

My project is going to be based around art, which just has a story thrown in to actually base the art around something.

[Landon D. Parks]

Dan, what kind of camera and lighting package are you using on this project? Do you plan to use a lot of dolly and even crane shots?

 

Actually Dan, The "How to become a director" thead was closed, so I never got to say how my meeting with Mr. Mostafa came out. I will now:

 

I got the job! On a "Trial" basis. The film is currently been cut in budget from $80,000.00 to $50,000.00. But Im sure I can still pull it off. (No, the budget cut was not due to me being brought on as director, its the fact that a few Investors droped out of the project).

 

The project is still not greenlighted yet though! But if things work out, we should start production in May.

 

Thats all I can say about the project at the moment, as Ahmed really wants me to keep the project "hush" until its developed a little more. I think the script is good though, I really *Scary*Script.

Edited February 27, 2005 by Landon D. Parks

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Dan, what kind of camera and lighting package are you using on this project? Do you plan to use a lot of dolly and even crane shots?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure I can afford a proper crane, but there will be lots of dolly and jib shots. Shot on HD (HDW-750) and a few really nice effects. i.e. there is a scene where a boy is sitting in a field, we may use mist filters and possibly some other digital effects. Or the scene where he is indoors in the kitchen with his gran, we will use fog machines and warming filters. On the other hand when the boy is walking down the street (tracking shot) the colours will be blue and clear. For lighting I will probably just use home made bouncers and any other equipment I can borrow.

 

My only fear is that this could cost me bigtime and I won't be able to get the money back (Perhaps my money could be invested in something more useful to me?) HDW-750, a large jib, tracking shot equipment, fog machines, a set of filters, a wide angle lens (i.e. 24mm or preferably wider - in 35mm equiv). There are also some expensive scenes which I'm not sure how much they will cost, i.e. a scene where the kid jumps off a bridge with a rope tied around his neck in an attempt to hang himself. This scene could be expensive, but I think I can pull it off. But it will definitely be worth it, it will make a great scene. (It will look really dramatic I mean)

 

I'm going to start drawing up storyboards soon.

 

 

Actually Dan, The "How to become a director" thead was closed, so I never got to say how my meeting with Mr. Mostafa came out. I will now:

 

I got the job! On a "Trial" basis. The film is currently been cut in budget from $80,000.00 to $50,000.00. But Im sure I can still pull it off. (No, the budget cut was not due to me being brought on as director, its the fact that a few Investors droped out of the project).

 

The project is still not greenlighted yet though! But if things work out, we should start production in May.

 

Thats all I can say about the project at the moment, as Ahmed really wants me to keep the project "hush" until its developed a little more. I think the script is good though, I really *Scary*Script.

 

That's pretty cool actually. Infact, very cool. You realise, that if you shoot this to your full ability, and you really make it great, then it will most likely be your break in the industry. People will be saying "A 16 year old shooting a 50,000 dollar movie, just imagine what he?ll be shooting when he's older".

 

All of the best of luck with it man. What kinds of places are you going to show it in?

[Landon D. Parks]

Not sure I can afford a proper crane

You could always build one. thats what I'll probably end up doing on my feature.

 

a scene where the kid jumps off a bridge with a rope tied around his neck in an attempt to hang himself. This scene could be expensive, but I think I can pull it off. But it will definitely be worth it, it will make a great scene. (It will look really dramatic I mean)

Well, that sounds real dramatic! Cant wait to see it.

 

That's pretty cool actually. Infact, very cool. You realise, that if you shoot this to your full ability, and you really make it great, then it will most likely be your break in the industry. People will be saying "A 16 year old shooting a 50,000 dollar movie, just imagine what he?ll be shooting when he's older".

Well, I hope it turns out good. The script is REALLY good in my uneducated opinion. I just hope I can deliver what the script is worthy of...

 

What kinds of places are you going to show it in

Well, being DV I doubt to many places. I'm making more than anything for my reel. But it would be nice if it was put onto DVD and put out into the public light. Ahmed and I have talked about possible distrobution, he tells me he looks to apprach places like first look features, ect.

 

I'm also probably going to DP the feature also. I have suggested we use the SDX-900, but we may end up using the Canon XL2. $10,000 should get me a nice camera, lighting and home made grip package. I am also pushing for the HDW-F900, but that may be a bit out of reach right now, unless more inverstors come on.

 

But I need to concentrate on getting the film done before I worry myself with how it will be show to the public.

 

If anything, I'll take it to my local cinema and show it to the cast and crew on the big screen, if thats a as fare as it gets, I guess I'll have to live with that.

 

I too want to use wide angle shots. I also want a slight bleach-bypass look to the entire film.

 

This is considering we actual get to the filming stage. Remember, project is still not greenlighted. It could be thrown out at any time yet. Ahmed as stuck by this project though, he tells me he has been trying to get as fare as hes gotton for 3 year now on this project alone.

 

But I'm just happy to be attached to any project, rather $50,000 or $50,000,000.00!

Edited February 27, 2005 by Landon D. Parks

[Jonathan Spear]

"Actually Dan, The "How to become a director" thead was closed, so I never got to say how my meeting with Mr. Mostafa came out. I will now:

 

I got the job! On a "Trial" basis. The film is currently been cut in budget from $80,000.00 to $50,000.00. But Im sure I can still pull it off. (No, the budget cut was not due to me being brought on as director, its the fact that a few Investors droped out of the project)."

 

Hey Landon,

 

Hmmm... I don't know man. Is it just me or does something smell REALLY fishy about this Ahmed character - I don't mean that in a racist way, it's just that being 16 and making your first film is one thing. Being 16, never making a film before and having a stranger offer to bring you on as a director on a 50,000$ budget film (crickey! that's a lot of money) is kind of odd don't you think?

 

I know I've been talking nonstop about how age shouldn't matter in this industry, but my short I'm shooting this spring is a collaboration of friends, a camera, some hard work and NO BUDGET.

 

Don't kid yourself Landon. It's great to be young and to want to direct but just image what will happen if this guy ends up pulling a fast one on you.

 

Not saying you should give up the oppurtunity, just MAKE SURE one of your parents is involved in the process from day one.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

Either way, have fun making your first movie and don't forget to post it here before it ends up in theaters.

 

And don't ever forget the "little people".

 

;)

[Landon D. Parks]

But so fare I dont have my hopes up. I see it as if it happends, it does. If not, fine. I dont have anything to loose in this, so he has no real reason to "Scam" me. I don't know what he would get.

 

I find it VERY fishy this dude would just offer this job to a no-name with no experiance, but its not the weirdest thing to ever happen in my life.

 

Well see how it developes. If it works it does, if it dont no big deal.

 

PS) If this does turn out to be "real", if there is enough forum suport I could start a thread like David Mullen is doing on his project. And keep everyone updated on the process, but I'll hold off on that till I can see the project is 100% real. Which may be a while. Since I'm 80% going to doing cinematography on the project, this forum seems a good place to post a "First time Cinematographers Diary."

 

PSS) I wont forget the little people, lol. Nor will I forget the Pros (Most of you guys!).

Edited February 27, 2005 by Landon D. Parks

[Jonathan Spear]

"PS) If this does turn out to be "real", if there is enough forum suport I could start a thread like David Mullen is doing on his project. And keep everyone updated on the process"

 

I was thinking about doing that too only on my thread we'd discuss WHY I F'd up whatever shot I f'd up that same day.

 

And I'd tell them how.

 

...I'd tell them how.

 

:D

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

But so fare I dont have my hopes up. I see it as if it happends, it does. If not, fine. I dont have anything to loose in this, so he has no real reason to "Scam" me. I don't know what he would get.

Don't take this the wrong way or anything, but how do you know the guy is 100%, safe?

 

If you don't know him well, bring someone else with you when you go to meet him.

 

I'm not saying anything, but ask yourself why a guy is putting 50,000 dollars in the hands of a 16 year old without much experience.

[Guest]

Landon,

 

"You know Richard, I cant seem to find an IMDB profile for you. Any film that is worth seeing is usually listed on IMDB, and generally they always list there DP's. I find it strange that your name appears no where on there."

 

This question has been asked and answered before. IMDB does not generally list people involved with say, commercials. Are you going to knock the very significant group of DPs that ONLY shoot commercials? Many of these guys produce stunning work and are quite wealthy as a result.

 

DPs who work in music videos may also not be listed on IMDB, is their work insignificant? You are clearly implying that my work is of no signifigance since I am not listed on IMDB.

 

Then there are all the people that actually do have solid credits from their work in film and are not listed on IMDB. The reasons are numerous and IMDB provides the best explanation for this.

 

I would be very careful if I where you moving forward. You will not ingratiate your self to working pros by walking up them on set and saying, "Gee I can't find you on IMDB so you must be a nobody."

 

For your information, if you watch TV then there is a better than average chance you have seen my work on more than a few occasions.

 

Any way, I assume I'll be first in line to give Daniel J. Ashley-Smith his first apology when we all see his film that is good enough to a "cinema film".

 

Can't wait to see it.

 

Richard

[Guest]

Now I'm getting a bit confused??????

 

"I'm not saying anything, but ask yourself why a guy is putting 50,000 dollars in the hands of a 16 year old without much experience. "

 

Daniel J. Ashley-Smith, aren't you circa 16 years old as well?

 

I thought your whole argument was that people your age don't need any experience or technical knowledge to make a "cinema" quality film? If you can do it, can't Landon?

 

Clearly this guy is giving Landon 50k to make a film because he is a talented genius, beyond the scope of comprehension by no talent non IMDB listed people like myself.

 

Richard

[Guest Daniel J. Ashley-Smith]

Any way, I assume I'll be first in line to give Daniel J. Ashley-Smith his first apology when we all see his film that is good enough to a "cinema film".

 

Can't wait to see it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cinema *quality* film. It's not as though this is a proper film that would be shown on TV or something, it's just a work of art. The story is just the subject being painted.

 

I thought your whole argument was that people your age don't need any experience or technical knowledge to make a "cinema" quality film? If you can do it, can't Landon?

My point was that most people wouldn't trust a 16 year old with 50k, as well as them not having a great deal of experience. Ask yourself WHY he is so willing to give the money to him.

 

Landon, if this guy checks out, then pounce on the offer to do the film. But seriously, check things out first.

[Guest]

Now hold on a second here, what you're saying below does not seem to agree with your earlier posts....

 

"It's not as though this is a proper film that would be shown on TV or something, it's just a work of art. The story is just the subject being painted."

 

This is what you said earlier...

 

"Well call me arrogant, but yes give me a descent camera and I promise you I will produce work that could be in a cinema film."

 

You said you where going to rent an HD camera in the summer and show us all, especially me, that you can produce work worthy a "cinema film." Now you seem to be saying that you are NOT making a "proper" film.

 

Are you now revising your claim? I assume you have a good Tony Blair style answer to explain both statements?

 

Richard