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For all the RED haters!!!


Dustin Lindgren

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I'm again and again astonished how emotional the discussion about the RED goes - positiiv as negativ - all around the forums. At the end it's a box with a sensor where you can mount lenses on. Pianists don't talk as emotional about their grand piano. They practice.

 

Cheers

Thomas.

 

I am not sure many people here are getting emotional, they just think it's all a big joke.

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The title of the thread doesn't help, it immediately wants to set-up a partisan tone of debate.

 

I'm surprised that people are still having this debate - The Red is pretty good with some quirks, in some ways the Alexa is better, in other ways film is better. My choice of camera is usually dictated by the budget and style of the show.

 

What does does surprise me is the statement that the footage looks so much better then Red MX footage. I thought it was the same chip in a smaller package with more processing power, hence the ability to record higher framerates and larger sensor sizes. From what I've seen the image quality is pretty similar to the MX.

 

David, did you find the footage on Big Sur looked markedly different before your color adjustments?

Edited by Mathew Rudenberg
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And fails miserably... :lol:

 

Hi Keith

 

I think it's great news that people with money can go ahead and buy am Epic M, whilst the stage 2 folks who paid a $5,000 deposit a year ago have to wait.

 

Whats even funnier is they get EVF's when owners of Red one are still happily waiting in line.

 

I don't think any one here hates RED, we just have a sense of humour & don't take what any 1 company too seriously, life is too short.

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I don't think any one here hates RED, we just have a sense of humour & don't take what any 1 company too seriously, life is too short.

 

Nailed it, Stephen.

 

I must say, though, that at least sometimes in the past, being even slightly critical of Red (or other cameras) basically meant being a "Hater". That's what happens when people take marketing too seriously, IMHO, and it's a direct consequence of the "Star Wars vs. Star Trek" internet forums mentality, something I've never understood and that somehow still makes me laugh.

 

The problem is that that mentality is sometimes fueled by those companies themselves (Arri has done it recently, though differently, and Sony is not really "innocent", too): I'm sure people at Red are very happy and proud of the endorsement by some top-notch cinematographers on huge bugdet features, and I understand that, and the same can be said of Arri, Sony and others. Maybe it's just me, but I believe those posts (and a LOT of threads on the RedUser boards) don't do any good to Red as a company and to the perception that some people out there in the real world have of it and of their cameras, and that's a shame.

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Yes, title didn't help. But here I thought we'd read something we HAD NOT read before . . . Instead we get Jannard's puffy ego drivel: "Like 65mm film. Better." As usual. YAWN!

 

At the end of the day, Red remains a manufacturer of cameras that have a place in productions but do not slay any other technology. No one can fault Jannard for being a good marketer of his products. We've said it before, we'll say it again: One is best to choose a Red if the camera is the best tool for the job at hand.

 

Here is hoping everybody could move on and shoot some pictures with whatever camera suits our current projects.

Edited by Saul Rodgar
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I thought it was the same chip in a smaller package with more processing power, ....

 

My understanding is that Epic is a new chip design with more photosites, 5K instead of 4K. We haven't had them on a show yet.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

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Estimated at approximately US$32 billion in today's money, although the true cost will never be known. Interestingly, they spent the equivalent of about US$65 billion on the fleet of B-29 bombers.

 

And Jim started with a paltry billion, and didn't spend it all. ;-)

 

Manhattan was a much better deal than those B-29's -- an overweight underpowered POS. But they were necessary to deliver the bomb. Now we have FedEx.... ;-)

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

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My understanding is that Epic is a new chip design with more photosites, 5K instead of 4K. We haven't had them on a show yet.

 

 

 

 

 

-- J.S.

 

The 5K M-X sensor (approx. 30mm x 15mm in dimension) is the same in the M-X Red One and the Epic, it's just that the processor in the Red One limits it to 4.5K max.

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I don't think any one here hates RED, we just have a sense of humour & don't take what any 1 company too seriously, life is too short.

Yeah, I wish I had the money for practical jokes like that. :D

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  • 2 months later...

Nailed it, Stephen.

 

I must say, though, that at least sometimes in the past, being even slightly critical of Red (or other cameras) basically meant being a "Hater". That's what happens when people take marketing too seriously, IMHO, and it's a direct consequence of the "Star Wars vs. Star Trek" internet forums mentality, something I've never understood and that somehow still makes me laugh.

 

The problem is that that mentality is sometimes fueled by those companies themselves (Arri has done it recently, though differently, and Sony is not really "innocent", too): I'm sure people at Red are very happy and proud of the endorsement by some top-notch cinematographers on huge bugdet features, and I understand that, and the same can be said of Arri, Sony and others. Maybe it's just me, but I believe those posts (and a LOT of threads on the RedUser boards) don't do any good to Red as a company and to the perception that some people out there in the real world have of it and of their cameras, and that's a shame.

I completely agree, some of the comments on that thread alone were a little too much in my opinion. But I believe images speak for themselves without hype, if the images are good enough, I'm sure the camera will be put to work. But I guess if all this marketing hype Red goes through, sells products at the end of the day, then they must be doing something right.

 

I'm sure the man behind Oakley glasses knows how to market his product in one way or another, even if it may turn some off.

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I've spoken to a couple people that worked on Spiderman and none of them were raving about the camera, at least not to me. They had dozens of bodies and they were constantly (on a daily basis) having to have new firmware written in order to make them work the way they wanted. Some had firmware X and some had Y and some had Z, and on and on, and it was a royal pain for the camera dept. Of course, I wasn't there. I'm just repeating what I was told.

I've only used the Epic once and that was just for tests for a TV show (which is now shooting Epic). At the time you couldn't have a monitor and the eyepiece at the same time...not a good first impression for me, and in my opinion that alone was proof that they shouldn't have released the camera yet. There were other issues as well of course, like lenses not covering 5k. But what do I know...I just pan and tilt.

I've used the Red and the Red MX hundreds of times, and it's a perfectly fine camera now. I'm sure the same will be true about the Epic, or maybe it already is, I don't know.

I've never understood or cared for the over hyped marketing that's always come out of Red. It's very annoying. Who here has EVER heard any DP say, "No, really... this is the best footage I have ever seen from any camera. Ever." And to hear them say it about their own work? Seems hard to believe.

OK, I'll step down off my soapbox now.

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