Olivier Egli Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 hi everyone I intend to shoot a music video in the swiss alps in a few weeks. My idea is to render the images really cold and unfriendly, even harsh and a bit unpleasant/ uncomfortable. And then there are onther images that should spread out a warm and nice tone as a contrast... As I am using Kodak 7274 stock which is rather on the red side my idea is to correct only partially for the heavy bluish cast of diffused daylight which the sunlight up there will give me. A reading with a minolta color meter showed about 9500K at noon... So I thought of correcting at noon with a 85BN6 and then moving over to a 85C at around 2 Pm with seperate NDs and then a 81EF after 4 PM. The shots at around sundawn will be shot uncorrected to keep the natural redish cast of the light intact. first question: Am I about right with this setup? Will this render partially blue images as I am not fully correcting it? (a 85B filter with a mired shift of 131 will only correct 9500K down to about 4237K which is still quite on the blue side, right?). second question: to render the images really unfreindly and harsh I was thinking of underexposing the images by 1/2 stop (ASA 250) and then push it 1 stop. for the pleasant images I wanted to overexpose by one stop (ASA100) and the pull process it back to ASA200. will these two techniques help me get the look I wish? will the pushing increase the grain and also the dramatic effect? will it desaturate the colors? and increase the contrast? will the pulling render the images smoother and nicer and will it saturate the colors? will it cut down the contrast? third question: whith all that said, how can I improve the effect of the manipulated exposure and processing with in camera filtering? will a coral or tiffen enhancing filter improve the saturation of an orange dress in the unpleasant shots without affecting the snow around? will a polarizer and maybe a red grad improve the nice look of the warmer images together with stronger color correction? how can I make the negative pictures look more negative? (most of them handheld) how can I make the positive pictures look more positive? (most of them off a tripod) I know, I am asking a lot but it is stuff I need to figure out in order to get decent shots for my demoreel Thanks Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Egli Posted March 8, 2004 Author Share Posted March 8, 2004 ...I have one addition: I just got my hands on 3 rolls of Kodak 7246 250D. I think of maybe using this for the "nasty" shots with a blueish cast. but how will I work out my color conversion? Little correction around noon? No correction in the afternoon? 80 filter for the sunset shootings? the stock is not exactly fresh, I have used some of it 3 months ago and the color rendition is good yet the film is grainy. But for this particular use it might be okay as I want grainy and harsh looks. But then maybe I should push it...? help!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Neary Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 I shot a couple episodes of a kids' series up on the matterhorn (on '74) and remember having to ND the bejeezus out of the lens. That snow and swiss sunshine is quite intense, even if it's hazey. All of the things you are talking about can be very easily created in the telecine and/or post. If I was doing it, I'd shoot the cold stuff with (or without) an 81c or ef (lotsa lotsa NDs) and not worry too much about keeping track of exact color temps, 'cause you're going to fine tune in TC anyway. 250d, being a daylight stock won't go nearly as cold as the 74, but again you could dial it in easily in telecine. it sounds like a fun shoot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Backar FSF Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 Shot film using 250D in the french alps. Shot with an 81 to go towards half blue. Looked really nice and desaturated. Also had polarizer in to kill highlights. Left me with a desaturated and soft picture.Rated normally with a stack of ND´s in :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Egli Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 Fredrik Wont the use of a polarizer in this situation kill all the contours of shades and mountains? Also how to deal with handheld shots? As the axis of the sun will be in motion the effect of the polarizer will change all the time...? I mean I have overly bright light from every possible direction, I got snow and almost no contrast to start with. If I break down the contrast even more than i am left with a picture that shows just solid fills and plain colours and no definition at all, or not?? My idea was to desaturate the look, yes, but not to kill the contrast too much. It is nice to still have some definition in the snow, to see where there are bumps and a path and stuff like that... Plus my actor is going to wear an orange uniform which I want to pop out even more than usually. So I though of using a tiffen enhancer to bring out the reds and oranges. You said you used an 81 with the 250D which is already daylight and the 81 being an orange filter. was it still getting blue because the temperature was so damn high? So I was to use an 81EF with a tungsten balanced film I am even more in the bluish region, right? Summary: If I use my 7274 I am fine correcting it only a bit down the kelvin scale with some 81EF. I will take 2 ND.6 and 1 ND.9 with me. this gives me control over up to minus 4 stops with 2 NDs plus I have a Haze Filter that will cut down UV rays but also some of the blue...right? the 250D being overstocked wont be any good I think. so 7274 plus 81EF and Haze filter = bluish and desaturated overall look. is this probable? and if the sky is overcast then maybe throw a 85c on it? damn, I think I take it a bit too exact..! this thing is killing me!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Backar FSF Posted March 9, 2004 Share Posted March 9, 2004 Sorry man 82B!!!! Hope I didn´t confuse u to death..... :( The intention for my film was lower contrast and desaturated toward the cool end. Polarizer was shifted as we whent on, and there was only on axis movement with no spinning of the camera. Go without the polarizer I would say and try maybe a lesser balancing filter like the 81c, then at the end of the day you could add an 80a or b. My temperature dropped the most after three o´clock. It is however easy to grade afterwards to a point also. Especially if u are going straight to video. My film whent to print. But!! Bring more ND´s. With polarizer, the 82b and nd3 I was still working around f8 as I wanted more depth in the exteriours. I also recommend large silks for extreme sun shots.... Hope I am of some help to you. I am not extremely experienced, but this is what I would do. Ps. I used no hazefilter.Ds I am sure Mr Mullins has some great input. After all he shot North fork :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member John Pytlak RIP Posted March 9, 2004 Premium Member Share Posted March 9, 2004 If raw stock is old, or has been stored improperly, both fog and graininess may increase. If you push-process the film, it will accentuate these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Egli Posted March 9, 2004 Author Share Posted March 9, 2004 thanks for the kind help! this is very important for me. Also thanks Fredrik. You are absolutely right, you confirm what I was thinking. I wont go too nuts about the mired shifts and simply use a 81 and go half blue in the evening. I use the polarizer for the beauty shots when shooting off a tripod. so my plan with all the information I got so far: shooting through the day 7274 with NDs, 81(EF), enhancer for the orange hues in the blouse shooting in the evening 7274 with some NDs, probably no correction to get the red sunset for the beauty shots: 7274 with 85BN9, Polarizer , some promist (1/4) and maybe a red grad most of all I will have to cover the skintone exposure well in the wide and clsoe ups. I thought of underexposing the skin in the face by 1 stop in the "nasty" shots. the orange blouse is going to be 1 stop over "key" and the snow blows out as highlight. in the beauty shots the face is 1/2 stop over (using make up) and some bounce from underneath (with golden rosco on foamcore). what o you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fredrik Backar FSF Posted March 10, 2004 Share Posted March 10, 2004 I´m sure you´ll be fine! You have a lot of ideas and seem to have a great vision to follow. Some behind the scenes from my pic can be found here:http://www.thefilmset.com/gallerix/03/0311/backar/index.htm Best of luck to you!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivier Egli Posted March 10, 2004 Author Share Posted March 10, 2004 thanks, Fredrik! I will make sure to send you some pics of the raw and of the finished shot! Your advise has helped me a lot! cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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