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Trevor McClung

Low budget 35mm Cameras with Registration pins?

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Which cameras besides the Mitchell and Arris have Registration pins?

Or which ones don't besides Konvas?

 

The whole story is I'm trying to figure out the best low budget registration pin camera for 2perf conversion.

 

Also can a Konvas be modified to have Reg pins?

Thanks

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Precisest movement still is Bell & Howell’s shuttle gate. Doubled by the Wall

 

Then comes the Newman-Sinclair clapper gate.

 

Then you have the Mitchell family with its descendants down to the youngest Arricam, Vinten-Newall-Moviecam-Ultracam-Leonetti-Cinema Products-Arritechno-Photosonics-Cunningham-Simplex Centfox.

 

Let’s not forget the Debrie Grande Vitesse with up to 240 f. p. s. under moving register pins.

 

Little Debrie Sept has moving register pins, too. Unfortunately in a soft alloy, so in most cases worn out

 

Debrie Parvo in aluminum housing from 1921 on, also Askania Z (a copy of the former), the Italian OG 300, and the Czech and Soviet studio cameras

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Then you have the Mitchell family

I have BNC modified to accept Soviet lenses in OCT-19 mount :-)

http://rafcamera.com/movie-cameras/cameras/mitchell-bnc-35mm-movie-camera

Mirror shutter installed, so I'm not sure that it is suitable for your needs now though.

I wanted $2950 for it, but now I'm ready to sell it for $1000 + shipping.

Thanks

Edited by Rafael Pankratau

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Hi Rafael.

I purchased my first Konvas 2m from you about 8 years ago. Also a video assist you made. You do fine, fine work and you are a pleasure to do business with. I'm glad to see you're here.

And Simon, you sure do know your stuff, thanks.

Raf, I'll look at your cams, I look at your website a lot. I'm on a 16mm project now but as soon as I can I'll need you. I'm doing budget for part 2 of 3 part series. Part two is 35 2perf camera with Reg pins.

Can I do this conversion myself in my machine shop?

Is it better to buy it all ready converted?

Will a local machinist be qualified to convert?

Is it best to send a camera to a specialized 2 perf conversion shop?

This is what I'll have to find out.

Thanks guys.

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2-perf conversion requires change of mechanical parts to change movement pattern of the pull-down claw. I think that it is better to ask experienced techs to do this. If I remember correctly, Bruce at Aranda Film (Australia) did some conversions like this, but shipping to and from Australia will be expensive. May be you'll find other workshop closer to you, somewhere in US. You may try to ask Slow Motion, Inc.

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Thanks Tom. BLs I like it. I've never even heard an Arri. Never held one either. I would love to posses one. What price should they be at? What's high, what's low?

Thanks Raf, I checked with Slowmotion. I remember them from back in the day. They've come a long way.

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Technovision, George Lucas shot his second THX film, and Tucker, 1988. such a box exist.

 

I would mask the normal 35mm frame at centerline, an original B&H 2709 has built in mat box ahead of the gate, and rewind for a second inverted pass so you don't waiste half your stock. The 2709 also has film notch-er to mark the loaders matching starting frame, and a automatic cross desolve feature built in.

 

I owned a machine shop for eight years and did crazy things like converting from 6 perf pull down to 8 perf, bandsawing up Mitchells, B&H's and theater projectors for $Hollywood and building special film gates. Not worth it for a single film.

 

I have a 35mm 24-30fps Kinescope camera with two registration pins and a 300degree shutter open time. You could start there:)

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Douglas, THANK YOU.

A double pass... That's bloody brilliant man. That opens up so many low budget avenues an my wheels are spinning.

A double flippin pass.

With a little engineering, trial and error, patients and machining a 4 perf cam could be a 2 perf cam. I'm thinking matt box, possible dual gates with upper 2 perf mask and lower 2 perf mask? Would replacing the gate between shoots be impractical as well as bad for the FFD?

I'll work it out but that's the TICKET!

Thanks a lot genius.

You saved me thousands of dollars.

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Which cameras besides the Mitchell and Arris have Registration pins?

Or which ones don't besides Konvas?

 

The whole story is I'm trying to figure out the best low budget registration pin camera for 2perf conversion.

 

Also can a Konvas be modified to have Reg pins?

Thanks

I'm curious about your emphasis on having reg pins.

In my view, apart from the Arri IIc, the best low budget camera for 2-perf is the Cameflex CM3.

 

Yes, the ratchet mechanism is noisy but it's a great camera with many advantages; variable shutter, range of spares and extras including 100'-200'-400' mags, practicable conversion for 2-perf and PL hard-front, very easy to set-up and operate.

 

With the 100 foot mag it is amazingly compact; see photos of my 2-perf CM3.

I think Haskell Wexler used one on American Graffiti?

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<a href=http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6889/cm3compact3.jpg' alt='cm3compact3.jpg'> Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

 

Hopefully the image will appear here. :rolleyes:

 

Or not as it turns out.

Can someone offer advice on uploading images please?

A search suggested ImageShack which I tried with the Insert Image option above.

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Or not as it turns out.

Can someone offer advice on uploading images please?

A search suggested ImageShack which I tried with the Insert Image option above.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/99/cm3compact3.jpg

or <a href:

<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/99/cm3compact3.jpg"</a>

<a href="http://s5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/markrhdunn/?action=view&current=P3281371.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/markrhdunn/P3281371.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Edited by Mark Dunn

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I agree with David that the best choice would be to go for an Éclair Cameflex CM3 or an Arriflex 35 IIC. Especially the Cameflex is much underrated - Costa-Gavras brought his own to IDHEC, and continued using it even when he no longer would have had to.

 

Compared to a few years ago, you can fetch a IIC one Ebay for around €1500. With patience, you can snap one up for less: Just for the fun of it, we recently obtained one for €500 in pristine working condition :blink: B) . Even the projectionists at ARRI wouldn't believe that this was a IIC with a World War II lens on it when they projected the test reel in-house.

 

And renting an Arriflex 35 BL with a good set of fitting lenses strikes me as a much more rational, i.e. economic or reasonable approach than start tinkering around with old Debries in one's machine shop. Unless of course that's supposed to be part of the path to cinematograpic glory ;) .

  • Upvote 1

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I thought the Ari 35-III was the first pin-registered Arri camera or do I have my terminology wrong? The III has that extra pin above the gate that holds the film where the IIC does not...just know this from loading both.

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No, Will, your memory is not betraying you, the 35 III was the first Arriflex with registration pin movement.

 

For my part, I was continuing to David's post #11 on low budget cams generally and my recent experience of what you get for what bucks.

 

/-Michael

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This is so awesome. Thanks you guys.

I wish I knew more. When I found out about the 2 perf I could hardly sleep. Aranda has a couple 2 perfs for under $5k I think one Camflex and 2 Arri's. I'm thinking of a 4perf Konvas that I can matt for a double pass as an option. Is that a nightmare? I've only shot 1000 ft of film.

Q. Is fresh 16mm film always a better image than short ends?

Q. Is fresh 35mm always better than Short?

Q. Is .18cents per ft. a good price for 35mm short ends?

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Arri 35-III's have a single registration pin, but the BL models have

always had dual-pin registration.

 

Regarding 35mm short-end prices, here's an excerpt from a quote I got

back in February from Comtel (818) 450-1122 :

 

The price for the film depends on the type of film and the length. For example,

5219 is the most popular stock. If you want to buy some film at lengths between

300' and 390', the cost would be .10 cents per foot. Shorter lengths would be

.05 cents per foot.

 

For a less popular stock, the prices would be lower for longer lengths. You can

get lengths of 5201 over 400' for just .08 cents per foot.

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Q. Is fresh 16mm film always a better image than short ends?

If you are asking if fresh 16mm is always a better image than short end 16mm then no. However, there's always a chance (although usually small) that there's a problem with a short end or recan. It's the same film; just a matter of how well the short-end/recan was treated. Sometimes recans/short-ends sit around for a while so age may slightly affect it. Key is to buy from a reputable dealer.

 

Q. Is fresh 35mm always better than Short?

Same as above.

 

Q. Is .18cents per ft. a good price for 35mm short ends?

Decent. The market is constantly changing, prices may go up as more shows go to digital.

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