RedRay Take 4

Keith Walters · May 11, 2012

(I hope this one posts in English :rolleyes: Probably not even Emanuel would have been able to understand my last attempt)

It's just over 4 years since my original post on this subject:

Original Post

I was reminded about this because Mars (You know, the RED planet) is looming large and ruddy in the sky again, like it was the first time I brought this up :rolleyes:

Earlier this year we were hearing lots of hints of a "Blockbuster" release of Red Ray (or whatever it's called now).

Then NAB came and went and everything just sort of went deathly quiet.

At no time did I ever state that I thought the concept was necessarily impossible; but I did wonder exactly how it was done.

I would have expected that it's nothing like a real-time process, and that it might take weeks of passes to render the average 2 hour movie, but four years on all we've had is sizzle and no sign of any Pork Chops.

So what happened?

Emanuel A Guedes · May 13, 2012

(I hope this one posts in English :rolleyes: Probably not even Emanuel would have been able to understand my last attempt)

(...)

Yes Keith, I'm sorry. I did try to ...and my best, though ;)

Emanuel A Guedes · May 13, 2012

(...)

Earlier this year we were hearing lots of hints of a "Blockbuster" release of Red Ray (or whatever it's called now).

Then NAB came and went and everything just sort of went deathly quiet.

(...)

So what happened?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77172-REDray-Player

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77171-REDray-Projector

:)

Keith Walters · May 13, 2012

This is it?

This is what you have to show for 4 years work? A JPEG:

Oh - Kay....

To re-state my original question: "Has anybody outside the Skunk Works seen one of these in operation?"

Has Emanuel? (Has anybody ever seen Emanuel in operation? :rolleyes:)

So I take it that the original notion of 2 hours of 4K on a dual-layer DVD is off the table and rolling out the door.

The trouble is, in the years since this notion was first spruiked, the cost of portable storage has gone down so much that's it's hardly that big a deal any more.

The sub-$10K 3D laser projector would be a clear winner, considering I've seen CRT TV sets that cost that much in 1990s dollars, but again, lots of sizzle (well, reported sizzle) but not even a smear of bacon grease.

Can Jannard do it?

Well of course he can do it. Give me enough money and I could do it. Well, I could hire people to do it.

Whether he ever manages to make any money out of it is of course, another question.

Phil Rhodes · May 13, 2012

I think the final hilarity with this company is that logo. In my experience, absolutely the last word that anyone would ever want to put on a piece of professional equipment is "professional". Most people have the confidence to let their equipment find its market - although if I was in charge of Red I wouldn't be that confident about my equipment.

As to the product itself, as you say, big wow - given enough compression you can claim anything you like will fit on a DVD. About five years ago I demonstrated playing a 1080p24 material from a single-sided DVD at very watchable quality and a bitrate that would allow the entire movie to fit on the disc, just to make a point that with modern compression techniques, you might question the necessity of blu-ray. This is really just a restatement of that position. Compression tech advancing at the rate it does, it's always easy to build gear that beats the previous quality-per-bitrate norm, if you engineer it from scratch and don't try to turn it into a mass-market format. I doubt they're intending this to be the successor to blu-ray, anyway.

P

Keith Walters · May 13, 2012

I doubt they're intending this to be the successor to blu-ray, anyway.

P

To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what it does...

They (ie certain high-end RED staff members) definitely claimed "2 hours of 4K from a 2-layer" DVD at one point, but clearly the DVD deck has been dropped. Given that PC Blu-Ray burners are well under $100 now, you'd think that would have been the obvious choice anyway, since it will also play DVDs.

Actually I've had my Blu Ray burner for close on a year now; I've yet to burn a single Blu Ray disc! (The pack of five Blu Ray blanks is still unopened on my desk). AVCHD on DVD blanks has been more than good enough for everything I've done so far. And it's pretty much the same story with other people I know.

Emanuel A Guedes · May 14, 2012

This is it?

This is what you have to show for 4 years work? A JPEG:

Oh - Kay....

To re-state my original question: "Has anybody outside the Skunk Works seen one of these in operation?"

Has Emanuel? (Has anybody ever seen Emanuel in operation? :rolleyes:)

(...)

You Keith, your kindergarten and same old number... Yes, the world could be and is a small village at times. They say the 7 billion number was surpassed on 12 March 2012. So anyone should have noticed the work of this guy here, especially if posted at your playground ;)

On topic, RED has been releasing in a way or another, their products. Whether you like whether not. So what's the new beef this time?! No, for the umpteenth time, I am not working with them. But yes, I could follow up the news from those two threads during the last NAB only a month ago.

I guess Jim is still not able to address you the check despite the fact you're saving the ad cost to the company, and by consequence to their customers. In any case, you keep the hype up in these boards indeed (who else? :huh:), but you've forgotten to always post the full pics ;-)

Emanuel A Guedes · May 14, 2012

I think the final hilarity with this company is that logo. In my experience, absolutely the last word that anyone would ever want to put on a piece of professional equipment is "professional". Most people have the confidence to let their equipment find its market - although if I was in charge of Red I wouldn't be that confident about my equipment.

This has been their fight in order to justify the premium to pay for the proprietary media, as for instance. No more introduction of $3K for 3K concept (Blackmagic Design did it on their behalf). And as we all know, the prosumers were a good part of the RED ONE early adopters and Jim's primary target in the very beginning when forums like this one didn't receive the news with the same good will. Therefore, the usual remaining propaganda paraphernalia.

As to the product itself, as you say, big wow - given enough compression you can claim anything you like will fit on a DVD. About five years ago I demonstrated playing a 1080p24 material from a single-sided DVD at very watchable quality and a bitrate that would allow the entire movie to fit on the disc, just to make a point that with modern compression techniques, you might question the necessity of blu-ray.

Very true. Even yesterday afternoon, I had the same feeling comparing delivery codecs and 1080p media.

Keith Walters · May 14, 2012

You Keith, your kindergarten and same old number... Yes, the world could be and is a small village at times. They say the 7 billion number was surpassed on 12 March 2012. So anyone should have noticed the work of this guy here, especially if posted at your playground ;)

On topic, RED has been releasing in a way or another, their products. Whether you like whether not. So what's the new beef this time?! No, for the umpteenth time, I am not working with them. But yes, I could follow up the news from those two threads during the last NAB only a month ago.

I guess Jim is still not able to address you the check despite the fact you're saving the ad cost to the company, and by consequence to their customers. In any case, you keep the hype up in these boards indeed (who else? :huh:), but you've forgotten to always post the full pics ;-)

TWO JPEGS! I stand corrected.

"So what's the new beef this time?! "

There you go again, every time you get excited you lapse into English :rolleyes:

"No, for the umpteenth time, I am not working with them."

Who said you were???

But anyway, same "beef" (or lack thereof): all sizzle 0% steak.

Try to understand: There are thousands of small cinema operators worldwide facing the glum prospect of having to find 6-digit sums to replace their perfectly good film projectors. Now we have somebody dangling the prospect of a much cheaper alternative. But when is it going to actually happen? Should they wait, or not?

" Very true. Even yesterday afternoon, I had the same feeling comparing delivery codecs and 1080p media."

Yet:

As of May 13, 2012, The Avengers has earned $373,182,000 in North America and $628,900,000 in other countries for a worldwide total of $1,002,082,000!!

Shot on, ahem, the (hoik-splat!) 2K Alexa. As used, owned and endorsed by Richard Boddington!

I suppose you're going to say that if it was shot with an Epic it would have grossed $4 billion dollars already....

Just remember, there is no practical limit to the size of a PDF :lol:

rob spence · May 14, 2012

Love the new red ray...here's another link

http://www.pfonline.com/products/control-unit-for-gas-fired-infrared-burners

Keith Walters · May 21, 2012

I guess Jim is still not able to address you the check despite the fact you're saving the ad cost to the company, and by consequence to their customers.

What do you mean "not able to"? I'm sure he'd rather extract his own wisdom teeth or take out his own appendix than do that, but it's theoretically possible.

The trouble is, it might take four years to get here :rolleyes:

Sorry, it's these tablets I've been taking to counteract a massive outbreak of Hives, which were apparently caused by the drugs they gave me to clear up the thrush infection in my mouth, which was a result of the four lots of antibiotics I needed to clear up the bug I apparently picked up in Hong Kong a month ago. One of the reported side effects is "Inappropriate Happiness"

I bet most people don't know that the slimy biofilm of bacteria in their mouths is all that keeps their tongue and cheek from getting bitten to pieces whenever they close their teeth. With the slime, the skin just slides out of the way. Without it, AArrghhh!

:blink:

Keith Walters · November 16, 2013

So is there any update on Red Ray, whatever its present incarnation is?

Vadim Bobkovsky · November 25, 2013

So is there any update on Red Ray, whatever its present incarnation is?

RedRay the player is on sale (http://www.red.com/products/redray). Projector is still in development hell.

Keith Walters · March 28, 2014

It's just over 4 years since my original post on this subject:

Original Post

I was reminded about this because Mars (You know, the RED planet) is looming large and ruddy in the sky again, like it was the first time I brought this up :rolleyes:

Earlier this year we were hearing lots of hints of a "Blockbuster" release of Red Ray (or whatever it's called now).

Then NAB came and went and everything just sort of went deathly quiet.

At no time did I ever state that I thought the concept was necessarily impossible; but I did wonder exactly how it was done.

I would have expected that it's nothing like a real-time process, and that it might take weeks of passes to render the average 2 hour movie, but four years on all we've had is sizzle and no sign of any Pork Chops.

So what happened?

I just noticed a bright red dot in the sky last night, which means Mars has come close to Earth again, and another 2 years has elapsed

So what is RedRay doing at the moment?

And, what happened to the 4K projector?

Is the Red Factory still operating on US soil? We never hear anything about that any more.

Chad Lancaster · March 29, 2014

The headquarters and factory are in Irvine CA

Phil Rhodes · March 29, 2014

When you say "factory", is this a case of actually building things from scratch, etching PCBs, milling cases? Or is it a case of "final assembly" as in throw some Chinese boards in a Chinese case and put the sticky labels on?

P

John Holland · March 29, 2014

You could be correct Phil but that happens to most things we buy sorry to say .

Keith Walters · March 31, 2014

When you say "factory", is this a case of actually building things from scratch, etching PCBs, milling cases? Or is it a case of "final assembly" as in throw some Chinese boards in a Chinese case and put the sticky labels on?

P

From what they originally showed us, I'm pretty sure that at least originally they were doing actual manufacture. In most Western countries, consumer manufacturing is long gone, but lots of small-run industrial/military electronics manufacturing still goes on. If it wasn't for that, places like RS Components or Farnell could hardly still exist. Remember when somebody posted a copy of the FCC (EMC) report that showed the internal construction? The boards looked very US-Made to me.

The question always was whether there would be enough continuing demand to profitably support such an operation. I suspect that it was set up on the assumption that the Red projectors would be up and running by now.

I know that Jannard had some of his ex-Oakley colleagues investing in the Red project; one wonders whether they might have had something to do with his sudden retreat from the public arena :-)