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Guest Christopher Sheneman

Innocence of Muslims

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Guest Christopher Sheneman

Apparently some deaths were involved. I'm curious about when a film becomes "criminal"-- is this filmmaker a criminal?

There's no IMB info on this film, or "film".

But it continues to cause global unrest and death.. any opinions?

 

Here's the trailer..

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=ntgzoE7rU9A

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It's high-school level production-value at best and shouldn't qualify as any kind of "official" narrative product, no more than a student film posted to youtube should. IMDB tries (or used to try harder at it) to keep the films that it lists connected to legitimate film festivals and actual releases.

 

Freedom of speech is something that only certain countries have in place. The US is one, generally, so there can't be any crime here no matter how the simpleton hordes act because of it, or how many people die because of others' actions. I would bet that most of the rioters have not even seen it. Street thugs and the generally ignorant segments of populations are often the ones most seen in the media.

 

I'll share a quote I got on email this morning from a friend of mine who is from and living in Egypt: "No brains anywhere and all is left to the gangs to destroy every thing. No one respecting a damn thing.... Educated people lost the battle to the ignorant.".

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It's high-school level production-value at best and shouldn't qualify as any kind of "official" narrative product, no more than a student film posted to youtube should. IMDB tries (or used to try harder at it) to keep the films that it lists connected to legitimate film festivals and actual releases.

 

Freedom of speech is something that only certain countries have in place. The US is one, generally, so there can't be any crime here no matter how the simpleton hordes act because of it, or how many people die because of others' actions. I would bet that most of the rioters have not even seen it. Street thugs and the generally ignorant segments of populations are often the ones most seen in the media.

 

I'll share a quote I got on email this morning from a friend of mine who is from and living in Egypt: "No brains anywhere and all is left to the gangs to destroy every thing. No one respecting a damn thing.... Educated people lost the battle to the ignorant.".

Yeah, production value wise, this thing looked like it was shot by a bunch of kids. I can't imagine anyone getting worked up over it.

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Yeah, production value wise, this thing looked like it was shot by a bunch of kids. I can't imagine anyone getting worked up over it.

 

I understand there was deception of the cast, with the anti Islamic material apparently added in post. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19606155

 

I suspect the politics behind of the protest are more complex than this film.

Edited by Brian Drysdale

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I understand there was deception of the cast, with the anti Islamic material apparently added in post. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19606155

 

I suspect the politics behind of the protest are more complex than this film.

Yeah, I saw an interview with one of the actresses on the news who stated as much.

 

On the violence; imagine someone made a film about one of your heroes, and cast him in a negative light. Would you grab an AK-47 and storm the embassy of the country from which the film was made?

 

It's pretty ridiculous stuff. Especially since we provided air cover to oust Qadaffi. I mean, wow.

 

Hopefully one of the majors can pick up a project on Islam and make amends.

 

Still, I think of all of the goofy stuff my friends and I shot in middle school, high school and college, and where our stuff obviously didn't have anti Muslim overtones to it, it looked a hell of a lot better than this thing. I mean, I can't imagine any Muslim getting worked up over a below b-grade video "film". Just why would you?

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If you deem pointing at stupid people doing stupid things a worthwhile use of your time then it'd (all) be laughable - but someone was killed over this (?)

 

I suppose there are examples of the same right back to prehistory - no comfort in that however.

 

Cringeworthy state of affairs

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Quite possibly you have to look at the politics and cultures of the counties where these protests are taking place, as against Islam itself. There are divisions within the new Libya and there are people in that country who embarrassed by the violence. Most of the people involved in the attacks won't have seen the film, so its the quality doesn't matter, however, it's a means by some groups to raise local tensions against western powers.

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Quite possibly you have to look at the politics and cultures of the counties where these protests are taking place, as against Islam itself. There are divisions within the new Libya and there are people in that country who embarrassed by the violence. Most of the people involved in the attacks won't have seen the film, so its the quality doesn't matter, however, it's a means by some groups to raise local tensions against western powers.

 

Especially, since blasphemy cam be touchy subject, regardless of the quality of the offending work.

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Especially, since blasphemy cam be touchy subject, regardless of the quality of the offending work.

Well, to me that just says that the people in that area need to broaden their horizons. I mean, aren't there middle eastern teenagers making student grade videos somewhere about nonsense? Aren't there some video savvy muslim teenagers just goofing around with a camera? If not, then maybe there should be.

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Well, to me that just says that the people in that area need to broaden their horizons. I mean, aren't there middle eastern teenagers making student grade videos somewhere about nonsense? Aren't there some video savvy muslim teenagers just goofing around with a camera? If not, then maybe there should be.

 

Your talking about the Muslim faith. This isn't a case of 'broadening horizons'. They take the Koran and Islam as seriously as most American's take the Star Spangled Banner and the right to bare arms.

 

The film is total propaganda to provoke a reaction and unfortunately is has done so. And it has done so in countries that are beyond poor, and beyond corrupt, and where the average man and woman follows their religion with the kind of fervor that most Christian churches wishes they could instill amongst there masses.

 

For the record I'm not Muslim and I don't live in a Arab country.

 

And yes, the production values are total shite.

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Your talking about the Muslim faith. This isn't a case of 'broadening horizons'. They take the Koran and Islam as seriously as most American's take the Star Spangled Banner and the right to bare arms.

 

The film is total propaganda to provoke a reaction and unfortunately is has done so. And it has done so in countries that are beyond poor, and beyond corrupt, and where the average man and woman follows their religion with the kind of fervor that most Christian churches wishes they could instill amongst there masses.

 

For the record I'm not Muslim and I don't live in a Arab country.

 

And yes, the production values are total shite.

Oh, I suppose. I'm pro 2nd ammendment, but I have no working weapons in my house, and my family helped found the country a couple centuries ago, but you don't see me getting all worked up over flag burning and people trying to reinterpret the 2nd ammendment.

 

I remember Gibson's "Passion of the Christ", and how the bible belt got worked up over that. But no one got hurt. I remember that other film that had those scenes with Jesus fantasizing about women, and where there were a number of protests at theatres, no one got hurt.

 

I seem to recall that in Somalia the people there get worked up over Ridley Scott's "Black Hawk Down" and shoot at the movie screen.

 

I'm just shocked that anyone would get that worked up over a movie.

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I'm just shocked that anyone would get that worked up over a movie.

 

You're dealing with different cultures, you can't look at this through modern, first world eyes.

 

I'd remove the Islam aspect because that covers a pretty broad range. Unfortunately, it seems to have lost in some of it's historical reputation for protection of learning etc., or at least some more extreme followers seem to have lost. Much of the basis of western science comes from books that Islamic scholars had in the their libraries.

 

I remember seeing "Murphy's War" in Crete, it was quite a few years after the original release and in English with Greek sub titles, so perhaps they were after the tourists. Any time the German U boat crew appeared this local old man at the back would swear loudly in Greek at the screen. The reaction in Somalia is not dissimilar, just they've got a more heavy duty method of doing it.

Edited by Brian Drysdale

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Oh, I suppose. I'm pro 2nd ammendment, but I have no working weapons in my house, and my family helped found the country a couple centuries ago, but you don't see me getting all worked up over flag burning and people trying to reinterpret the 2nd ammendment.

 

I remember Gibson's "Passion of the Christ", and how the bible belt got worked up over that. But no one got hurt. I remember that other film that had those scenes with Jesus fantasizing about women, and where there were a number of protests at theatres, no one got hurt.

 

I seem to recall that in Somalia the people there get worked up over Ridley Scott's "Black Hawk Down" and shoot at the movie screen.

 

I'm just shocked that anyone would get that worked up over a movie.

 

I completely agree with your comment. I worked with a Pakistani man about 15 years ago and I turned the conversation to 'The Satanic Verses' by Salman Rushdie. At that time Rushdie was still under a Fatwa and had to fear for his life. The man I worked with said that he should be killed for writing it. When I asked had he read it, he said NO. Ridiculous.

 

The fear is in this instance is that all Muslim's would get painted with this religious zealot brush. For a Muslim, to commit murder in any way shape or form, denies them a chance in the afterlife. Unfortunately, like the David Koreshs and Reverend Jim Jones, you get people who subjugate religion for their own ends.

 

I apologise If I offended you Mr Ebersole, but with many friends that are Muslim, and who don't believe in vicious militant and brutal aggression tactics that are used I always try to stick up for the Muslims that do follow the straight and narrow.

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I completely agree with your comment. I worked with a Pakistani man about 15 years ago and I turned the conversation to 'The Satanic Verses' by Salman Rushdie. At that time Rushdie was still under a Fatwa and had to fear for his life. The man I worked with said that he should be killed for writing it. When I asked had he read it, he said NO. Ridiculous.

 

The fear is in this instance is that all Muslim's would get painted with this religious zealot brush. For a Muslim, to commit murder in any way shape or form, denies them a chance in the afterlife. Unfortunately, like the David Koreshs and Reverend Jim Jones, you get people who subjugate religion for their own ends.

 

I apologise If I offended you Mr Ebersole, but with many friends that are Muslim, and who don't believe in vicious militant and brutal aggression tactics that are used I always try to stick up for the Muslims that do follow the straight and narrow.

No offense taken. Asian and European teenagers steal from American teenage pop culture, and say they came up with rap. That offends me, because it was NY DJ's who were doing it back in the 70s and invented the whole thing. But, unlike some people overseas, I don't get all hot and bothered by something I have no control over and know not to be true.

 

It'd be nice to get the guy who wrote and directed this thing to do a streamed interview with one of the major networks.

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