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THE END of Ektachrome


James Compton

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http://motion.kodak.com/motion/About/The_Storyboard/4294970514/index.htm

 

I wonder if after announcing the end of Ektachrome in the still photo market almost exactly one year ago, did KODAK plan to do this if sales did not increase in the cinema production market. BOTTOM LINE, KODAK is a corporation. If we as film devotees, don't buy film then film will simply go away. I consider film and the ability to shoot film a NECESSITY in my life. Perhaps we should budget $50-$100 bi-monthly to buy some Super 8mm film or 16mm or 35mm rolls. That same $60 per month that you would spend on cigarettes or alcohol or drugs use , can be

focused on sharpening your DP skills or making films or documenting life - be it yours or the lives of people you know. BUY FILM. It's the only way to save it.

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I definitely plan t purchase film MONTHLY but I wasnt the biggest fan of Ekta. I love the Vision series of film and I look forward to shooting V3 500t which I havent shot yet. Loved the V2 though so no reason to think that V3 wont be better or at least as good.

 

You are right that film shooters need to come out with their pocketbook instead of wanking about film's demise.

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The thing I just don't get is why Kodak doesn't try increasing the cost first. They say that it costs to much to produce relative to income from sales. Well... increase the cost. If people still want it badly enough, they'll still buy it. If not, then it will die. Just killing it off cause it's not making/loosing money seems silly to me. The same was true with Kodakchrome.

 

Polaroid basically did the same thing... then the Impossible Project came along and said "We're gonna charge $25 for a pack of film that produces 8 prints." WHAT!? Holy crap, who's going to spend that? Well... internationally, enough people to keep it profitable. Sure, they are not going to get rich off it and Kodak isn't going to pay off their billion dollars of debt. But still, maybe sell it off or give it away to someone else to try.

 

I guess I just don't understand.

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I'm in freefall - just discovered Standard 8 & !wow! no more Ektachrome. Still pinching myself to wake up. I'm an experimental filmmaker so teleciné doesn't do it for me, I need the smell & feel of celluloid acetate. At least black & white is holding up, we also (sometimes) get Foma reversal coming into the UK from the Czech Republic, so my filmmaking can continue. Cripes, it's like we're going backwards in time, to the era of the black & white silent silver screen!

 

Yes, Kodak, please GIVE your Ektachrome business away to someone who will run it, PLEASE. Don't let 70 years of ciné development slip into oblivion: at least give someone out there the chance to run profitably what was obviously a loss maker to you. Running Ektachrome on a small scale only makes sense.

 

Who am I talking to though - does Kodak actually listen to anybody? :-o

 

Let's hope there is still a place for reversal film in the world after the photo-emulsion has settled.

 

Ric

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My guess is that 100D was the same, or similar, formulation as one of the last of the stills Ektachromes Kodak canned in March so there was no prospect of the cine stocks surviving. One doesn't know why they didn't announce it then, unless they had a run scheduled.

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My guess is that 100D was the same, or similar, formulation as one of the last of the stills Ektachromes Kodak canned in March so there was no prospect of the cine stocks surviving. One doesn't know why they didn't announce it then, unless they had a run scheduled.

 

 

I was once told by Kodak that Ektachrome 100D motion picture film was the exact same emulsion as 'stills' Ektachrome E100VS,

and like others on this forum, I'll miss this fantastic film.

 

 

John S :o

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This is really rough; I love this reversal stock as well as the already discontinued plus X for their unique limited latitude and vibrancy which requires dead on accuracy when setting exposures ( a great teaching aid for both the novice and experimental cinematographer). Not to mention the economy of camera original and print in one as well as its ability to stick into an old projector and see your magic as well as flaws to improve upon. I agree with the other posters that stated that Kodak should have risen the price or at least hand this reversal manufacturing technology over to another smaller company to produce. This is a damn shame because I really, really love this stock because it also offers a different color palette than the negative stocks. Kodak I really hope you are reading these posts because there are some young video shooters who have yet to discover the true beauty of film, who will soon tire of the High Def look and will seek alternatives.

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Once again it's not really about seeking alternatives, it's about funding alternatives.

 

As John sort of points out, I never avoided shooting film because I had some sort of obscure political aversion to it; I avoided shooting film because it was impossibly expensive, dozens and dozens of times the cost of the alternative for the sort of shows I get involved with.

 

It was never about the look - sadly.

 

P

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It’s a shame; I love ektachrome 100d stock. Kodak does not care nor understand how this will affect many young people going to film school if all they can shoot on now is negative stock... Also it’s no surprise that Kodak was shady about discontinuing this stock, first with 35mm movie and print, then slide film, now super 8 as well. I hope this is the end for Kodak. They deserve to fall after this move and I hope their company ceases to exist following the demise of film. Oh and thanks very much for the short notice Kodak… another great genius move on your part…

 

 

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Panavision UK know nothing about the discontinuance of Ektachrome, nor Silverprint (London). They are great firms, it's not their fault, Kodak have simply neglected to tell their professional outlets that 100D is no more. What a joke. Just who is running Kodak these days, Homer Simpson? Well at least there is still Tri-X reversal monochrome, that will give me some breathing space while I recover from the shock of the loss of Ektachrome.

 

Several times now I have noticed comments from dv shooters complaining that they are bored with the uneventful nature of dv footage - bland would be another word - take a look at all those sad dv plug-in effect simulation filters for cine film, I haven't seen one yet to demonstrate that the people manufacturing this stuff have looked at a real cine film for longer than five seconds, if that.

 

Yes, starting out on fully manual equipment is the way to go, that way you come away from the experience actually learning something.

 

Ric

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I was at Kodak's office in NYC (it seems like it moves everytime I buy film...), the guy says they have no more, but that B&H might get some (not much!) in the near future. In 16mm presumeably. He didn't say much about negative stock, though given how Kodak's office is now crammed into a corner of Panavision in NYC... A shame. Every time I grab film for the Bolex I wonder if it's gonna be the last time...

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Facetiously, I really love how Kodak came along with all this too. Couple months back, they told all the super8 users about the wonderful addition of Vision3 50D film stock now available in the super8 format.

 

Now this, discontinuing Ektachrome 100D reversal! :( I'm really surprised there appears to be a stronger demand for black and white rather than color reversal?

 

I'm really now starting to believe the next shoe to drop here is all of Kodaks print films as later in 2013, the distribution network all change to digital projection. I hope I'm wrong with this!? Once in a while, I still like to make up an answer print and throw it on a conventional 16mm projector to watch.

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What we need is an affordable Super 8 negative HD scan package. Something along the lines of what 35mm is scanning for now. That would make the format extremely attractive.

The places capable of delivering a good scan with proper color correction cannot do it for less than they are doing it for now. Factor in the R&D on the super8 gates and the cost to pay someone by the hour for super8 vs by the hour for 16 and 35mm, well.... :(

 

It's a sad situation. With color reversal you could get pretty good results from those guys with Workprinters. In High Def. Now that option is gone, unles you shoot with B&W Tri-X.

 

The writing is on the walls. Super8 is going to die a painful death over the next few years. I'd shoot ten times as much super8 negative as I do now if the scanning prices were half the going rate. of course, that's just a pipe dream.

 

By the way, I am not slamming the scanning houses. Not at all. They need to pay the bills.

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Super8 is going to die a painful death over the next few years.

 

This is very sad & also ironic - the music business rediscovered Super8 & a lot of bands opted for Super8 telecine videos to promote their music - looks like that may also go to the wall then? I find it hard to believe that Kodak have axed reversal colour film & yet will guarantee negative film into the future. I certainly can't afford telecine anyway & am basically indifferent to anything that separates filmmaker from raw film.

 

Fingers crossed for Tri-X though.

 

Ric

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The rich folks shooting 8mm because it's retro cool and the music bands that use it can afford the higher rates charged by Pro8mm (which gets much of that business). The rest of us... only when we have the budget and that is not all that often. I am constantly asked to shoot super8 for friends or friends of friends or friends of clients who have seen my work and when I tell them what it will cost... they FREEEEEAAAK out! They ask me to do it for less and when I tell them if I do I won't make any money, they just pass on it.

 

And they end up shooting something with a DSLR.

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I've been a reversal shooter for over 30 years, both in Super 8/Reg 8 and 16mm...and slides too. It seems like I just got a real handle on Ektachrome 100D, the particular way it responds to light, and when and where it can be subtle, or over-the-top with color. This has been my learning curve over the past few years since the Kodachrome ran out in '05 or so. 100D is a very special beast, nothing like it in the history of cinema. I don't believe the small formats (Super 8 and Reg 8) had ever been better. And now it's gone after far too short a life.

 

I belong to the small minority that finishes on film without a workprint. A decent projector, careful hand, and liquid gate printing, and you have a 100% analog 16mm print that looks like no other moving image being produced today (that's a good thing). Another great point in Ektachrome's favor was its color response to internegs--colors shifted much less than Kodachrome (contrast build-up was still a problem, but could be reduced by a minimal post-flash and 1.5 stop pull process on the interneg--done correctly, the d-max on the positive print still betters prints direct from Vision negative). Ironically, I published a piece titled "At this moment" on just this topic in the Winter 2012 issue of The Moving Image (Journal of Motion Picture Archivists). Published literally weeks before the first announcement of slide film getting the ax.

 

My working process is the simplest way to make a beautiful color film, and gives me a necessary visceral connection to the craft. When I can't afford an interneg, I project my originals. I had a show at REDCAT back in September where I showed 30 minutes of camera original films on their excellent Eastman projector, without a scratch (thanks REDCAT!). 16mm 100D on that large screen was absolutely stunning, even if I do say so myself.

 

I know I personally couldn't possibly spend enough at Kodak, at the rate I shoot, to save color reversal. But I believe there are enough of us to keep it alive (regardless of what your process, or whether your final product is digital, original or print). Color reversal is simply too unique, too efficient, and too user-friendly to disappear at this date. All of the prior discontinuations by Kodak could be understood on some level, but this time they have crossed the line. Everytime I went in to the Hollywood office, they were selling Ektachrome--a lot of it. There was a ton of interest. This was not the case at the end of Kodachrome. Kodachrome was loved very much in name only, but Ektachrome 100D seemed to be really starting to catch on in its niche-market kind of way. (And in actuality, if it were only motion picture they were considering, they would not have discontinued it. This was a decision made in the professional still photography division. Most of the assumptions by posters here are correct--I've talked to Kodak employees and they simply did not believe that users would continue to buy it with a price increase necessary to produce it on a smaller scale).

 

I'm not posting here to lament (much) but to really put out feelers to the community to see if we are willing to put our money where our mouth is. I believe what Kodak is looking for (in this age of restructuring) is an outside entity to take on the risk of producing an emulsion (they have said as much). By simply contracting with Kodak to do another run of this film, and paying for it up front, we could supply 35/16/Super 8/8mm motion picture users with another 5 years of this wonderful film. (And it keeps wonderfully well, much better than negative: I've shot rolls that sat in my crappy old 70s fridge for over a year before being processed with no loss of color or d-max).

 

Anyone interested, either with ideas, inside information, committments of support...please contact me. I will be starting the preliminary footwork after the New Year. (I'm also looking at contacting ADOX, who announced a completely in-house produced B/W reversal 100 speed Super 8 this year, though I haven't been able to get my hands on any yet.)

 

Best wishes to you and yours,

Timoleon

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...Anyone interested, either with ideas, inside information, committments of support...please contact me. I will be starting the preliminary footwork after the New Year. (I'm also looking at contacting ADOX, who announced a completely in-house produced B/W reversal 100 speed Super 8 this year, though I haven't been able to get my hands on any yet.)

 

Timoleon

 

Please also post here http://forum.filmshooting.com/ which will reach a lot of like-minded good people. You seem to have a good handle on the situation.

 

Still can't quite believe what Kodak have done with 100D - it seems like nothing short of sacriledge to me. Surely Kodak aren't going to skip all the Ektachrome technology, they just have to pass it on? Similar to Fuji Velvia being packaged by Cinevia maybe?

 

Ric

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Still can't quite believe what Kodak have done with 100D - it seems like nothing short of sacriledge to me. Surely Kodak aren't going to skip all the Ektachrome technology, they just have to pass it on? Similar to Fuji Velvia being packaged by Cinevia maybe?

 

Ric

Slitting velvia from un-perforated 35 into super 8 then perforating it and loading it in super 8 cartridges, while an onerous task, is nothing compared with making a stock like velvia in the first place. We can be thankful for the idea of Cinevia, but we are beholden to Fuji for it.

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I couldn't agree more with Timoleon's views. I like many others have given the old film-fridge a large Christmas present of 100D, and like you say it does keep for years with no problem. ( I'm still using 5 year old still 35mm Ektachrome that has no deterioration.)

And as you mention, 100D or any other colour reversal film doesn't have to be all contrast and nothing else, and will produce good prints. I must say I wasn't aware of the 1.5 stop pull-process method for interneg, glad of this information thanks, that's really useful to know. As for post-flashing of 100D, I've found it responds very well, and the method I use is shown here:

see "Post-flashing your image"

http://filmisfine.co/page/6/

It's a bit crazy-looking but it's always worked for me. 100D can be really beautiful with just a small flash. But without flashing it still is easier to work with than Kodachrome, not that I wouldn't mind seeing some more of this.

As for putting your money where mouth is, I suppose it all depends whether Kodak or whoever ran Ektachrome went too much over the top or not with the price. I think there may be quite a number of folks maybe who would think of buying a reasonably large amount, especially as many film projects require them.... It doesn't make sense to keep switching to other emulsions during a production. I wonder if Kodak would be more keen keeping Ektachrome alive if they knew they had some firm orders from film-makers and professional still photographers. As I said before, I think storing it cold for a few years shouldn't cause problems.

How do others think ? Maybe it's time to speak up for wonderful 100D. It doesn't deserve such an early death.

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