Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) I just won a cp-16r but the seller is now informing that there is a lost loop or up and down registration problem. this is the video he sent me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WPTJHWay4A&feature=youtu.be what do you folks reckon the problem is? Can I get it serviced and fixed? About how much would that cost? Edited March 9, 2013 by Rudy Velez Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It could be that he's just not putting in a large enough loop. I found that the bottom loop needs to be running just above the camera bottom, the printed loops are a bit too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 So this could be just a problem related to film threading/loading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I had it once and it was sorted by increasing the loop sizes. It seems too variable to be something like the shutter phasing being out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dunn Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 The problem isn't yours as you bought on the basis that is was in good order. Don't proceed until you see a good film test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) I had it once and it was sorted by increasing the loop sizes. It seems too variable to be something like the shutter phasing being out. So this is a harmless problem? Nothing major, Just a threading issue related to loop sizes?, one has to be bigger than the other much like if you removed the loop informers on a K3 one loops is longer/shorter then the other. Edited March 9, 2013 by Rudy Velez Jr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 On a CP16 you thread everything manually, there aren't any loop formers. It's something you need to practise. Looking at the footage, it's my first suspect, especially if inexperienced people are using the camera. As suggested, if you can shoot a test with the camera do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 So this is not a registration pin problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 The CP16 doesn't have a registration pin, just a claw. In an ideal world you'd run a steady test, but the intermittent nature and it's the highlights doing a vertical smear suggests a loop issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 Ok next questions: the guy is gonna send it to me without a case I am worried about the mount hole? I want that protected because this camera does not come with a lens. also is this a good lens? http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANON-ZOOM-2815150mm-CMOUNT-LENS-BOLEX-CAMERAGEARS-/270982826569 this is what i won: http://www.ebay.com/itm/CP-16-R-Cinema-Products-16mm-camera-/181092058604?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&nma=true&si=CPN7fhgYc14Qjcq6SgQ6WTr0G8A%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc weigh in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac Fettig Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It's a great lens. Just not for that camera. The CP-16 takes CP mount lenses. C-mount is VERY different from CP (c mount is a threaded mount, CP is a bayonet mount; for starters). Luckily, they've made a bunch of great cinema lenses in CP mount. Unluckily, you usually have to pay for them. Luckily, they're usually cheaper than Arri mount lenses. If you look around, you can probably find a Nikon-CP lens adapter. I don't know of anyone making one anymore, but they used to. That's probably your best bang for the buck bet. Angenieux made a few cinema zooms in CP mount that will give acceptable results. Zeiss made one (I think think this one's too pricey, but that's just me): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zeiss-10-100-T3-3-Vario-Sonnar-CP-mount-5300727-/280886135544?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item41661e4af8 If you want something more expensive, look for CP mount Cooke or Zeiss primes. The price for the camera was very good. That camera doesn't have a registration pin. But usually a CP16 will register better than that. My gut says that the folks above have it right. The loops were formed too tightly. If you're worried about the hole, tape a cover over it until you get a new lens. Probably easier than finding a CP port cover these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 Thank you so much Zac. Your insight is deeply appreciated. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Angenieux made a few cinema zooms in CP mount that will give acceptable results. Zeiss made one (I think think this one's too pricey, but that's just me): http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zeiss-10-100-T3-3-Vario-Sonnar-CP-mount-5300727-/280886135544?pt=Camera_Lenses&hash=item41661e4af8 If you want something more expensive, look for CP mount Cooke or Zeiss primes. The old angenieux are noticably softer than the old Zeiss Say Ang 12-120 vs Zeiss 10-100 T3.1 (thought they were T3.1, but obviously not, or not all). If that Zeiss on eBay is in good shape then I think it's a good price. Normally people prefer the coated (T*) version. To make use of the cheap but good primes you need to sort the mount options. There are Arri B adapters for CP. There was one cheap on eBay a few weeks ago. I don't know if there are Arri S adapters. If there are, or if one could be made, then there are some quite good old primes that are cheap now. Schneider. Cook Kinetals, but Kinetals are designed to rotate in the lens port to focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Some typo of mine and my post all looks like a quite from Zac. Everything below the highlighted link is me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 It's my day for making mistakes. I'll just repaste my text here. The old angenieux are noticably softer than the old Zeiss Say Ang 12-120 vs Zeiss 10-100 T3.1 (thought they were T3.1, but obviously not, or not all). If that Zeiss on eBay is in good shape then I think it's a good price. Normally people prefer the coated (T*) version. To make use of the cheap but good primes you need to sort the mount options. There are Arri B adapters for CP. There was one cheap on eBay a few weeks ago. I don't know if there are Arri S adapters. If there are, or if one could be made, then there are some quite good old primes that are cheap now. Schneider. Cook Kinetals, but Kinetals are designed to rotate in the lens port to focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 If the cp-16 doesn't have a registration pin why is there one mentioned in this manual: http://www.evergreen.edu/medialoan/aps/docs/cp16manual.pdf pg 11 Also when recording sound with this, can I use a zoom H4N and plug it into the camera? Can only tape units plug into the camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Can a manfrotto 128LP head handle the cp-16 with 400ft Mitchell magazine + plus lens( i dont have one yet but assume the angie 12-120) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If the cp-16 doesn't have a registration pin why is there one mentioned in this manual: That's the claw, a registration pin only comes out when the film is stationary. They're using the wrong term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Correction. perhaps engages when the film is the film is stationary would be more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 10, 2013 Author Share Posted March 10, 2013 Thanks again Brian!!!, that manual isn't the official manual. Someone should inform the people who put out that manual, I believe its for a school...that the terminology in the manual is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zac Fettig Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Can a manfrotto 128LP head handle the cp-16 with 400ft Mitchell magazine + plus lens( i dont have one yet but assume the angie 12-120) No. Not beefy enough. Fully loaded the camera+lens+fully loaded Mag will be 15-20 lbs. Look for one rated for 20 lbs, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 13, 2013 Author Share Posted March 13, 2013 What is the lens situation with this camera. The mount is CP but apparently there are a few adapters(what are they) that allow me to use other types of camera lens. So basically what I am asking are what are some of the lenses I can use for this camera? They are super expensive and seems like I will have to save up a whole lot before I can actually use this bad boy, unless.... Are there any places in NYC I can rent a lens for for a CP-16R? I know there is the 12-120, and 10-150 ( what does the T number value mean next a lens?) Is there a way for me to figure out which 16r I have, like which shutter degree the 170 which apparently causes a problem that can fixed (something smearing light that can ruin the look of your shot) or the other one which has a smaller shutter degree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted March 14, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted March 14, 2013 Whitehouse A/V have an Arri to CP mount adapter that will let you use most lenses in Arri Standard or Bayonet mount: http://www.whitehouseaudiovisual.com/Mount_1.html Just be careful with wide angle lenses that protrude too far back and may hit the mirror. I've also heard of CP adapters for Nikon stills lenses, and there were likely others. There were also of course a number of lenses that could be ordered in CP mount - mostly Angenieux zooms, and the fast Ultra T primes made by Kowa, which are pretty close to the 16mm Zeiss Super Speeds in quality. But being news cameras they invariably came fitted with zooms, so I'd say finding CP mount primes might be tricky. The Angenieux 5.9mm with interchangeable mounts may have had a CP version, which would be a good wide angle. Regarding the mirror, the 170 degree mirror/shutter was a half-moon shape, with no smearing issues. Earlier models had bow-tie mirrors, 144 and 156 degrees versions. They reputedly caused smearing in certain lighting conditions with certain lenses, particularly the larger angle 156 degree one. Whitehouse have a photo of that model for sale, which you could compare to yours: http://www.whitehouseaudiovisual.com/CP-16R_Camera_Package_1.html If your camera has smaller gaps and larger mirror wedges, it's the 144 degree version. The T on cine lenses stands for transmission, being an f stop that is adjusted to compensate for light lost passing through the lens itself. Early zooms in particular lost quite a bit of light due to the many elements and primitive coatings, so for more accurate exposure T stops were developed. Some early Angenieux zooms have both f stops and T stops marked, one in white, the other in red. The T stop will always be a larger number (or smaller equivalent aperture) than the f stop. So for example while the geometric aperture (widest f stop) is usually written on the lens barrel or front ring as a ratio, say 1:2 (being f/2), the widest T stop marked on the iris ring might be T2.3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy Velez Jr Posted March 24, 2013 Author Share Posted March 24, 2013 HELP! I need some input regarding my cp-16. I got in the mail and somethings looks askew. Here is a link to my filckr account. check out the set cp-16 and and inspect and inform me please, I deeply appreciate it. here is the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/93626579@N07/26579@N0 it is missing the switch below were it says frame rate 24 frames. also if you look on img_1958, img_1954,img_1953,img_1952,img_1951 you will see something that doesnt look kosher, at least to me the wire is way too exposed, is that normal?. one of the mics is bent, are they even usable? do they have an active function for or with the camera? img_1963 & img_1965 are extras that I guess came with the camera? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Drysdale Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 You need to change an internal sync pulley to change from 24fps to 25fps in the CP16R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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