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Marisa Aurora V

How to reduce film grain

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Hello every one. I shot this film in a Nikon r10 .

The camera hasn’t been used in 32 years so… as a result of these tests, I will get it checked as far as the lens and the mechanism goes. The thing is, I did expected to see some grain, but this is excessive right? The B&W is a reversal 200 ASA, and the color one is a Negative 250 daylight. I did use the auto exposure meter built in, in the camera. I shot it at 24fps and 59 fps (the b&w). Got it transferred at pro8mm and color corrected scene – to –scene.

So, if any one can share his or her ideas, pls do. I want to know what I did wrong not to repeat it again.

Thanks every one.

this is the link to the video of the film

 

 

 

 

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Several things can cause more or less grain. I have observed that the development is important. Also the telecine process and post production. The example shown, does not seem excessive grain but, if you want to decrease NEAT VIDEO is a good thing. Some grain is also nice, this is film not video.

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Also keep in mind the difference between grain and noise. Some of this is likely CRT noise from the Millenium at pro8mm. It is a fairly noisy setup. For non-noise-reduced super 8, this does not look excessive. Super 8 is grainy.

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thank you all!!!

I replayed it and in small formats is ok... it's when I watched it at a big screen that worried me... I guess the eye has to get used to the grain coming from the digital era.

 

Do you think this film was noised reduced?? how do I get results like that... I am really enjoing this format... just want to really get the best of it =)

 

I really like the texture in this one, even if you blow the image screen size or on to your tv....

 

 

In this pice I am sure there was lighting involve, because it was a photo shoot, but any comments as far as the latitude and best exposure rate will be much appreciated.

 

 

thanks and best wishes all the way from Mexico =)

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Hey!!! Jose Luis Villar!!! I think you actually shot the second video!!!! =)) yeiiiii that makes me really happy!!!!! plssss do tell me more about it!!!!!

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Cameras don't produce grain. Unless it was terribly under-exposed due to the auto-exposure not working properly.

 

The problem likely lies in this line : "Got it transferred at pro8mm and color corrected scene – to –scene."

You got it developed/processed by them too?

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There is some weird exposure or processing thing going on (or the film was aged) where parts of the color footage look very underexposed and corrected back to normal.

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the film was new, just purchased it from pro 8mm.... it was also developed and transferred there.

 

I am going to send the camera to service, because it has a built in features that ables the camera to under expose the film by 1 or 2 stops and the wheel is currently stucked.

And Considering what David Mullen said... it must be it. As I said it is a camera that hasn't run in 32 years ! And I did exposed everything on the built in light meter .

 

i will also double check what processes and how are they been handle by pro 8.

thank you all on your responses they have been much helpfull.

If any one has any comments on the latitude and best exposure for the 8mm film, be welcome ;)

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I think the footage you shot, shows that your camera is underexposing by at least two stops on the 250D roll of film.

I bet your camera, has only ever had Kodachrome inside of it, and is stuck at a 40asa setting. Try to go by, if you live in L.A., or call Spectra Film and Video and try their Fuji Velvia 50D reversal. The people there are very helpful. If your camera is stuck on 40asa, the Velvia should come out looking much better, than the 250D.

For negative Kodak film stock, slight overexposure can actually reduce grain and a lower ASA negative stock will have less grain. You might want to try the Kodak Vision3 50D. I think it is one of the least grainy films available. If like I suspect, your camera is stuck on 40asa, the Kodak Vision3 50D will come out perfectly slighly over-exposed.

If you live in L.A. swing by Kodak in Hollywood, you can buy one roll of Kodak 50D for $17.16 If you're a student it's only $12.01 a roll.

Tri-X reversal is $13.50 and $9.45 for students if you buy the film directly from Kodak. There is a toll free number if you're not in L.A.

In regards to your Nikon R10. If you know somebody with really strong fingers, they might be able to loosen the exposure compensation dial. Those dials are notorious for becoming stiff when not used for long periods of time. I have the same camera and mine loosened up after I rotated it back and forth a few dozen times but when I got the camera, at first, I could barely get it to move.

Edited by Richard Hadfield

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Thanks!! that is very helpful too. I will try those films stocks, I just have one more question for you. What do you mean that my camera is stucked in a 40 asa? I will have it checked...

And I am already trying to loosen up the wheel know that i know I can force it a little bit with out damage.

in your experience do you under expose by a 1/3 of a stop or you go all the way to 1/2 .....

thanks for every body's answer they are all very helpful.... much to do know.

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Thanks!! that is very helpful too. I will try those films stocks, I just have one more question for you. What do you mean that my camera is stucked in a 40 asa? I will have it checked...

And I am already trying to loosen up the wheel know that i know I can force it a little bit with out damage.

in your experience do you under expose by a 1/3 of a stop or you go all the way to 1/2 .....

thanks for every body's answer they are all very helpful.... much to do know.

Don't forget to push the unlock button when rotating this correction dial :)

 

Considering the reputation of pro8mm you should first shoot some standard film like Tri-x and have it processed at a different place. Saves a factor three on the expences. You might also do manual set exposure... Use a lightmeter and voilá. Do some clips with 1 and 2 stops up and down. Take notes.

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If you live in L.A. swing by Kodak in Hollywood, you can buy one roll of Kodak 50D for $17.16 If you're a student it's only $12.01 a roll.

 

Tri-X reversal is $13.50 and $9.45 for students if you buy the film directly from Kodak. There is a toll free number if you're not in L.A.

 

Some enviable prices on Kodak film. This is ex sales tax I assume?

It almost seems as if Kodak film is gold lubed here in Europe. Maybe the resellers have gold lubed cars :)

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If you live in L.A. swing by Kodak in Hollywood, you can buy one roll of Kodak 50D for $17.16 If you're a student it's only $12.01 a roll.

 

Tri-X reversal is $13.50 and $9.45 for students if you buy the film directly from Kodak. There is a toll free number if you're not in L.A.

 

 

You are lucky. Here in London I haven't figured out where to buy 50D on super 8 though a mate has used it.

 

You would think Kodak would try and get as much 50D out there as possible or am I just being naive.

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If you live in L.A. swing by Kodak in Hollywood, you can buy one roll of Kodak 50D for $17.16 If you're a student it's only $12.01 a roll.

 

Tri-X reversal is $13.50 and $9.45 for students if you buy the film directly from Kodak. There is a toll free number if you're not in L.A.

Forgot to ask, the prices, were they for 16 mm rolls or 8 carts?

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You are lucky. Here in London I haven't figured out where to buy 50D on super 8 though a mate has used it.

 

You would think Kodak would try and get as much 50D out there as possible or am I just being naive.

BlueCiné tech is in London... Prices are good for Europe. If the UK is in Europe:)

Check ebay or his webshop.

 

I am not sure if he does over the counter sales.

Should save a 10% on ebay and 4% on paypal.

Edited by Andries Molenaar

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Forgot to ask, the prices, were they for 16 mm rolls or 8 carts?

Those were the prices for Super 8 carts, without tax. The tax in California is around 9%. The three super 8 Vision3 stocks that Kodak sells directly from their Hollywood location, are all the same price $17.16 plus tax. For students Vision3 Super 8 is $12.01 plus tax.

 

Below is the Hollywood location's Kodak Motion Picture Film price list for 16mm .

 

The prices for 16mm direct from Kodak are as follows:

 

All Vision3 100' $37.57 ----For students $26.30

All Vision3 400' $146.18---For students $102.33

 

Tri-X 100' $26.20---For students $18.34

Tri-X 400' $99.56---Forr students $69.70

 

Double-X 100' $24.40---For students $17.08 (film code 7222)

Double-X 400' $97.60---For students $68.32

 

High Contrast Positive 400' $53.25---For students $37.27 (film code 7363)

 

 

Edited by Richard Hadfield

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If the camera was stuck at 40 ASA, the 250D stock would be 2 2/3's stops overexposed, and it looks underexposed to me.

You are absolutely correct. That was a very misleading posts that I made about a possible problem with the camera owned by Marisa Aurora V.. If the Nikon R10 was stuck in the 40asa position it would severly over-expose the film. The footage Marisa Aurora V, posted looked grainy and under-exposed. So that was not the problem

 

A Nikon R10 I owed would only correctly exposed film rated at 40asa or 64asa. My camera might not have had the same problem. It still might be worth a try to see what happens with that camera with a lower asa film.

Edited by Richard Hadfield

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The new 50D will give you the least amount of grain obviously but as has been said, grain is part of the deal with Super 8. Another issue is you may be used to SD transfers of Super 8 which soften the grain compared to newer HD scans.

 

Best thing is to simply embrace the grain. For less grain go to 16mm or stick with V3 50D.

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The B&W is a reversal 200 ASA, and the color one is a Negative 250 daylight.

 

Even thought the camera is old:

1) every film above 100 ASA is grainy or extremely grainy in super8

2) there's no notch for 200 ASA in super8. Hence the b&w stock got most likely exposed at 160 ASA (which shouldn't be a problem)

3) even though 250d is possible as a notch in super8, there are some cameras that don't correctly recognise this notch. Not sure whether this is true for your Nikon...

4) 250d is a lot on a sunny day - maybe it was more than your Nikon was able to handle?

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so basically, keep it between 50-160 ASA for 8mm right?

Also, what do they mean when they say " the camera can only handle certain ASA.."

I sn't it the same as 16mm and 35 mm cameras that can handle any ASA you load up?

 

thanks for all the replies... most helpful

=)

  • Upvote 1

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Yes, that's true if you are able to do manual exposure or if your camera auto exposure is designed for the other ASA. But, most Super 8 cameras (especially cheap ones) were for Kodakchrome 40 or Ektachrome 160 only. Some of the nicer ones went up as high as 250ASA, but very few correctly read 500. You can get the full specs on various cameras from:

 

http://super8data.com.

 

so basically, keep it between 50-160 ASA for 8mm right?

Also, what do they mean when they say " the camera can only handle certain ASA.."

I sn't it the same as 16mm and 35 mm cameras that can handle any ASA you load up?

 

thanks for all the replies... most helpful

=)

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Also, what do they mean when they say " the camera can only handle certain ASA.."=)

Yes, cameras that "know" all ASA-rates defined by the super8-standard for the notches are one part of the problem. However the cameras' iris is another part of the problem: e.g. the iris on my canon 310xl can open/close from f/1.0 to f/45. But my Elmo super 103's iris can only close from f/1.8 to f/16. Hence I can't use the Ektachrome 100d in the elmo on a sunny day simply because f/16 isn't "closed enough" (and I haven't got a matching ND-filter to compensate this).

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