"New" super-8 camera to market

[Doug Palmer]

Just like to say this is all amazing news :D and although I think I'll not be a customer (reluctantly) only as I'm not so much into super-8 these days, I certainly think Lasse and Tommy have a great product here. In fact it comes across to me almost like a miniature 16mm camera. Capable of real serious stuff with that pin. As for price, it's not that high when you think some of us were paying more in real terms for our Beaulieus in the late 70s.

 

Doug

[Doug Palmer]

Looking forward very much to Friedemann's Vision etc footage. Hope you have done some static tripod stuff ? This camera certainly beats 16mm for compactness, and maybe, who knows will compete with the quality of the results. Super-8 has always had the edge on 16mm when it comes to depth of field in closeups. Miniature filming for example. Potentially Logmar could be a highly useful tool, not to mention for doing superimposition, but I suppose one still has the limitation of the cartridge.

Re Bolex primes, I remember getting sharp super-8 footage with a Switar Reflex 10mm on a Beaulieu, so maybe there's more choice than just non-RX lenses.

[Friedemann Wachsmuth]

Hey Doug et al,

 

I shot a roll of Vision 3 50D using a tripod, yes. The weather was quite dim (Hamburg, Winter...) and so aperture was usually very open. The film is in the lab already and will go to scanning right after development. The camera is currently briefly back in Denmark for surgery (e.g. to get a first batch of further improvements) and I can't wait to get it back for some further testing. :)

[Anthony Schilling]

Hey Doug et al,

 

I shot a roll of Vision 3 50D using a tripod, yes. The weather was quite dim (Hamburg, Winter...) and so aperture was usually very open. The film is in the lab already and will go to scanning right after development. The camera is currently briefly back in Denmark for surgery (e.g. to get a first batch of further improvements) and I can't wait to get it back for some further testing. :)

I've been shooting a lot of Vision3 super 8 this year and the 50D is really good, However the 200T is practically right there with it. I mean the 50D lives up to it's expectations in terms of sharpness and fine grain, being a low speed stock. However the 200T exceeds the expectations of a medium speed stock. The 200T is really sharp and it's graininess is only slightly higher than 50D in ideal situations. Sometimes a scene on 50D will have more grain than another scene on 200T. So you're not really giving up anything by going for more speed where you need it in more subtle daylight with 200T/125D. The 500T is much farther apart from 200T in terms of grain than the 50D.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Anthony Schilling

[Andries Molenaar]

Hey Doug et al,

 

I shot a roll of Vision 3 50D using a tripod, yes. The weather was quite dim (Hamburg, Winter...) :)

 

The Hamburger Winterdom is still on? Plenty of color there :)

[Friedemann Wachsmuth]

Actually mostly stills in the garden -- time was spare and the Dom a tad too dark for 50D. :)

[Carl Looper]

Just like to say this is all amazing news :D and although I think I'll not be a customer (reluctantly) only as I'm not so much into super-8 these days, I certainly think Lasse and Tommy have a great product here. In fact it comes across to me almost like a miniature 16mm camera. Capable of real serious stuff with that pin. As for price, it's not that high when you think some of us were paying more in real terms for our Beaulieus in the late 70s.

 

Doug

 

Yes the price is not that high at all. I mentioned this early on in this thread but in the late seventies (or early eighties) I purchased a brand new Canon 1014 XLS for about $1000.

 

According to some economic criteria I was looking at, that would be about $3500 in today's prices.

 

So once you factor in obtaining a good lens or two for the new camera it comes out pretty much about right I reckon.

 

The perception of price today, of course, differs from the 70s due to the presence of digital cameras in the same price range. Of course it's of no concern to those after a film camera. Indeed it's of no concern to those after a digital camera. It only has impact on those who are caught in the conceptual gap between film and digital.

 

An analogous conceptual gap is the one that Mr Bean (Rowan Atkinson) falls into this clip from the Olympics - where he conflates a car with running. Mr Bean sees them as no different from each other.

 

 

C

[Anthony Schilling]

I've contemplated the option vs Super 16, and a decent newer S16 rig runs 10K and up. None of them are as "experimental" friendly as this or any S8 camera. As far as the superior image quality of S16, I see as more of a con right now because it can look very slick, almost hard to tell apart from 35mm. That's where i want to be different. There are a million people producing slick film or HD images. I want something more mysterious and compelling. I've experienced V2 and V3 films from my decent cameras on the spirit, if things can get better from there i can hit my mark.

[Jose luis villar]

I've contemplated the option vs Super 16, and a decent newer S16 rig runs 10K and up. None of them are as "experimental" friendly as this or any S8 camera. As far as the superior image quality of S16, I see as more of a con right now because it can look very slick, almost hard to tell apart from 35mm. That's where i want to be different. There are a million people producing slick film or HD images. I want something more mysterious and compelling. I've experienced V2 and V3 films from my decent cameras on the spirit, if things can get better from there i can hit my mark.

Hi Anthony, I think the same as you.

[Freya Black]

Well I'm completely out of it because I only just stumbled across the Logmar camera via the filmkorn website but you guys have been chatting about if for ages I see!

 

I wrote an article about it and was slightly worried what the editor might think, pointing out we have had popular articles about real honest to goodness film in the past. Turns out the editor is wildly enthusiastic about it too! Never try and second guess the editor! ;)

 

Anyway you can check out my article here:

 

http://www.redsharknews.com/technology/item/1294-super-8-bounces-back-with-a-new-professional-level-super8-camera

 

This camera has to at least find a market with those people who have in the past used those pro 8mm cameras.

 

What an amazing project!

 

Freya

Edited December 8, 2013 by Freya Black

[Carl Looper]

Well I'm completely out of it because I only just stumbled across the Logmar camera via the filmkorn website but you guys have been chatting about if for ages I see!

 

The thread is well worth a read (or browse). Lasse, one of the engineers, started the thread and has made subsequent contributions along the way, answering questions and clarifying much about the camera. I'm pretty sure this particular thread is one of the best places to look for the latest news on the camera (along with all manner of technical/creative debates it has otherwise spawned!).

 

C

[Matt Stevens]

I sent an email to Nofilmschool.com suggesting they cover this camera and low and behold...

 

http://nofilmschool.com/2013/12/logmar-super-8-first-8mm-camera-in-over-30-years/

[Nicholas Kovats]

Way to go, Matt! Anticipation is building nicely.

[Anthony Schilling]

Nice job Matt!

[Chris Burke]

I know you are very busy and probably well along with the design and build, but I just jumped to the beginning of this thread to check out the audio specs. Is there a way to make the audio sampling 48/24 bit instead of 16? That would make it even more "pro". How is the website coming? Will it be here before the new year?

[Lasse Roedtnes]

Hi All,

We would like to take the opportunity to wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy and a new year!
Also we would like to thank you all for the support, ideas and comments that has helped us move forward in our endeavor to build the most versatile super-8 camera.

 

What's the current status you ask?

We've gained a lot of valuable feedback from our beta testers and also from people on this very forum. We have an extensive list of new features (many of which required us to remake the electronics inside completely) we now have complete coverage from 8fps to 54fps tested with different cassettes. Our mechanics are stronger and more durable than ever. the industrial design has been improved by removing the jog wheel that could break off and replaced it with navigational buttons instead which also helped make it more user friendly.The XLR audio path in the camera was completely revamped for higher fidelity and someone asked if we would go for higher sample rate - today our codec does not support higher than 48KHz and 16bits of resolution so it's not possible to upgrade for the time being but we will be adding support for MP3 instead of OGG-VORBIS through a firmware upgrade later on.

 

Our webpage is not yet finalized as you may have seen. (Apologies for that!) The good news is that we're partnering up with new external consultants in early January, so we can get that done and instead focus our energy on getting the camera ready for sales (we are not experts on marketing nor websites so we’d better spend our energy where we can make a difference).

 

In mid january we should receive our final revision of the electronics so that we can get a new small batch of cameras assembled, photographed etc. and then we hope to launch an Indiegogo or Kickstarter campaign for crow-funding and pre-sales in late January to mid-February together with our webpage.

 

Best wishes!

Tommy & Lasse

[Carl Looper]

Great news. Looking forward to investing in the project.

[Chris Burke]

Ditto

[Anthony Schilling]

 

we now have complete coverage from 8fps to 54fps tested with different cassettes

Any chance the firmware can be updated later for single frame, time lapse, long exposures?

[Lasse Roedtnes]

Hi Anthony,

 

Any chance the firmware can be updated later for single frame, time lapse, long exposures?

 

There's two sides to answering your question so please allow me to elaborate :)

 

As of today, the camera's we have out in the field for beta-testing cannot support any of the things you ask for.

This is because these camera's only have an electrical brake to stop the motor in shutter parked position, which turned out to be unreliable due to varying cassette inertia.

 

To overcome this issue, we redesigned the electronics (in progress) and the shutter mechanics to be able to also control an electro mechanical locking mechanism that dead-locks the shutter together with the electrical brake this should ensure that time lapse, single frame and programmable exposure would be possible!

 

So right now we cannot support it with the cameras we have in the field nor on the test bench, but the final revision of the camera hardware that we are hoping to get back from manufacturing later this month should allow this functionality and as soon as I have the hardware back this is going to be one of the first things I want to test as it would be cool to have some time-lapse footage to display as well.

 

Best regards

Lasse

[Anthony Schilling]

That sounds great, I hope it works out. One of the advantages of S8 are the experimental possibilities of working with full frames individually. The stability this camera will offer would make really nice timelapses, where image stability is important.

[Gabriele Turchi]

what a great project , please keep us updated ! would be great see some footage too (finally S8 stable images i guess !)

g

[Gabriele Turchi]

any update?

thanks

g

[Lasse Roedtnes]

Hi All,

 

Just checking in again to share some exciting news...

 

We've completed our layout of the electronics and shipped the design off to assembly last week and are now anxiously waiting the 20 working days it takes for the boards to come back.

 

Anyone that has ever designed electronics will know that this waiting period is excruciating, the anxiety builds up and you start to second guess the design and have doubts about everything in it - quite silly actually, but true.

The most powerful experience is when you initially power it on and press the "ON/OFF" button which in our design sequences all the power supplies and applies power to every circuit on the board. That right there is a do-or-die event because if somethings wrong the whole board could blow up and they you are really in trouble and would suffer a big hit to the schedule and also in terms of economy as a prototype board spin costs approx. 3.000 EUR.

 

The other thing that can happen is that it just "turns on" and then nothing happens which is exactly what we're looking for - (nothing happens because the micro processor is not programmed) at this point you start validating all the power supplies (10 different ones in our case) and make sure that are all within specifications.

 

The next eureka moment is when you attach the debug adapter for the micro processor and it actually sees it and can talk to it otherwise something is badly wrong - the processor could be damaged (for example if the power supplies sequenced wrong) there could be a design flaw, it could be a soldering problem etc. this is also a hairy moment as it's hard to figure out what's wrong if it doesn't work for the first time.

 

All the steps above are usually done (if no problems are found) within half a working day - if something went wrong it could be anything from a day to unknown.

 

This is the point where you start to verify all the existing functionality of the "old" design as well as start implementing all the new features - for me this is the most exciting and time consuming task which unfortunately takes a toll on the family as there's no longer such a pleasure as "spare time" in the weekends and evenings.

 

I promised myself that I would take photographs of this entire process from un-wrapping the boards to powering them on and make a little blog about it, some people might find it interesting.

 

As for the promised new features slight changes in the design from the original which are "partially" visible below (sorry but our CAD program doesn't have all footprints in 3D so it looks kinda weird) are:

 

On the left side above the USB connector (next to the yellow WIFI chipset) you'll find a Mini-DIN8 connector which allows for:

1. External trigger support of Recording and "AUX" functionality (on-demand speed change for example) via DIN-8 to Jack conversion cable so you can use industry standard trigger handles known from Nikon etc.
2. External pre-trigger, immediate trigger and post-trigger options that allow for turning on a light or strobe just before, just after or immediately together with recording (cool feature for time lapse for example) it can also be used for triggering an external audio recorder if that's needed for any reason.

On the top to the right, next to the SD-CARD you'll find a 4pin power plug that allows the camera to be powered from an auxiliary power source for example if filming for hours with timelapse - the same plug can provide 12V @ 500mA to external devices such as monitors, flashes etc.

 

On the top to the right, next to the above mentioned 4pin power connector you'll find two new switches - this is the recording switch and AUX function switch - they are now more conveniently placed on top of the camera instead of on the side.

 

On the top to the right, next to the two switches you'll find a standard RCA / Phono plug for an external monitor support instead of the previously used MINI-DIN connector with proprietary wiring, this means it gets easier to use our camera with standard products without having converter cables!

 

 

As you can see below the jog wheel has been replaced with navigational buttons making it more sturdy and robust - also the user experience should be better.

above the navigational buttons you'll find the on/off button and below you'll see the two potentiometers for adjusting microphone gain and monitor audio volume level.

 

 

We are meeting with our metal workshop partner this Friday evening and then we should have a plan in place for our pre-production quantity etc. and then we should be able to dive deeper into details.

 

Enjoy the rest of the week!

 

/Lasse on behalf of the Logmar team

[Matt Stevens]

Excited Excited Excited!