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Independant Movie on Kickstarter


Abdullah AbuMahfouz

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Dead ED - Hundreds of years after a nuclear world war, Khan and his companion, a service-droid, ED set out to purge the nuclear wasteland free of radiation. Friendship is tested and temperance is stretched when the two are pushed to their limits in the deadly country.

 

Hello fellow filmmakers! We are film students who are creating our first independent movie titled DEAD ED. But we need help. We launched a Kickstarter to help secure funds for the project, and we need an extra push. Please help us out by donating or sharing the page. Every little bit helps.

 

www.kickstarter.com/projects/634010533/dead-ed

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Thank you!

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Yeah.....as a film student, the first thing you need to learn about this site is the people on this forum are working stiffs. They will give advice, they will give feedback, they will give educated opinions but they DON'T give money to film makers. Go find some dentists, you got a MUCH better chance with them!!

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Well then please enlighten me on how to better get funding for the film. We

 

Yeah.....as a film student, the first thing you need to learn about this site is the people on this forum are working stiffs. They will give advice, they will give feedback, they will give educated opinions but they DON'T give money to film makers. Go find some dentists, you got a MUCH better chance with them!!

 

Well then please enlighten me on how to better send this film across to people? We have been going around locally and succeeding in getting funds, but I'm posting on a cinematographer off-topic forum for help on the kickstarter, which I think is appropriate. Then again, I'm young and nieve, I could be wrong, but I'm confident this is how forums work (atleast the ones I've been on.) I've worked on gigs before and I've had my share of the cut-throat attitude that people unfortunately have in this industry.

 

I hope to try my chances to reach a compassionate filmmaker who remembers the feeling of being in my position way back in the beginning. We all start somewhere. With all this being said, thank you for your input. I will keep trying on other websites aswell. My intentions were never to annoy any of you "working stiffs". You all humble me with your input, and I am greatful.

 

My sincere apologies.

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Hi,

 

For the sake of disclosure - I'm working on something right now which is likely to go on kickstarter, and unless I'm going to avoid all mention of it on this board, I could be accused of much the same things.

I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with people publicising kickstarter projects here, so long as it doesn't become so frequent that it swamps the rest of the board - and we're miles from that point. It would perhaps be nice if someone had more than two posts before throwing this out there, just to have established a record of involvement with the community, but even that doesn't raise my ire too high - I'm generally cautious of ranking people by the amount they've posted.

 

Personally I think kickstarter is a pretty good idea because it's a way for people to fund things without the potential problems created by what we might generally refer to as Big Banking and the use of credit, which is of course a hot topic currently but usury has been recognised as undesirable for a long time. Kickstarter, on the other hand, is effectively a presale, which has for decades been the most desirable way to fund a film but which was only available to the very biggest productions. Don't get me wrong, I don't love the fact that people have to fund stuff this way, but it's a lot, lot better than simply getting into a lot of debt.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see a problem here. The only issue I could see is if Tim objected to people using his board to solicit funds, which is of course his prerogative, but I would need someone to explain to me why it's a problem. Unless, as I say, I'm missing something.

 

P

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Strangely I think all of the posting in this thread are spot on!

 

I think James is right that probably most of the people on here are struggling to get by and are unlikely to be contributing to a film, esp one by someone they don't know at all. I also however, don't see any harm in the posting of it here, especially as they have had the very good sense to post it in the off-topic section. Good for you Abdullah!

 

I would suggest that it's a good thing to post it here as you never know who might stumble across it.

Theres no point in having a kickstarter and then keeping it a secret!

 

I also think that if we had loads and loads of these kind of posts flooding the board it wouldn't actually be a problem because we could just start a kickstarter section where they could all go into!

 

I think it's unlikely to happen because IRL there aren't actually that many people trying to make low budget movies.

 

Freya

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Personally I don't think it's appropriate to solicit funds to make a movie with from fellow film people. I have said that many times on here. The guy that wanted us to donate to his trip to Cannes to attend parties was way out of line in my view.

 

Producing is very tough, I know from first hand experience. Young producers would be better served by learning the traditional means of financing a film. I talk to many....frankly they just don't want to put the effort in to learn.

 

That said, people are free to spend their money as they see fit. I would hope that Tim would start a policy that bans fundraising on this site, but that is up to him.

 

R,

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How do you see it as effectively a pre-sale?

 

R,

 

Not enough people do it, but I always thought the best way to do one of these types of funding projects would be to just have a reasonable contribution amount and in return you actually, ya know, get the friggin film. Zach Braff's was something like at the $50 you got a playlist. Awesome.

 

Have a really killer pitch, take $20 and you get a digital copy when it's all said and done. $35 and you get a disc copy. Or whatever levels you're happy with. And sure people can put in $1-20 and get a thank you or something, but make it worthwhile for people. Give them bonus footage if they're in that group of contributors that after the regular release no one will get.

 

People need to stop just begging for money and you get your name in the credits. It drives me nuts.

 

I contributed to the sriracha documentary that finished up a few days ago. $5. They already hit more than their goal, and $5 gets me the digital copy before major screenings, if it comes to that. Felt like that was a good deal. Will be interesting to see.

But I'm not going to give $50 to some poorly acted, shot, written pet project and get a paper clip that held the call sheets together.

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Personally I don't think it's appropriate to solicit funds to make a movie with from fellow film people. I have said that many times on here. The guy that wanted us to donate to his trip to Cannes to attend parties was way out of line in my view.

 

Producing is very tough, I know from first hand experience. Young producers would be better served by learning the traditional means of financing a film. I talk to many....frankly they just don't want to put the effort in to learn.

 

That said, people are free to spend their money as they see fit. I would hope that Tim would start a policy that bans fundraising on this site, but that is up to him.

 

R,

 

I am a student attending a film school right now. I have not yet reached the producing classes, and I will not for another year; right now we are doing the best we can with what we know. Now, I think it is unfair to label all of us "young guys" as unwilling to learn Facts are that I am asking for assistance from more experienced filmmakers for a film my entire class will be working on.

 

If there are more traditional producing means that you think will do better for me, please suggest them. I'm not trying to spam anyone or rule that you have to give me your money, I am only trying to improve myself, and my peers. My intentions are to not start arguments about kickstarter and forum things. Perhaps I should rephrase my original post to: What are ways that you all know that can help me successfully reach a kickstarter goal? and also: What is my page missing? How should I reach out to people who will provide funding? How can I get ahold of these people? (I am a student, I have little connections in the working industry).

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and get a paper clip that held the call sheets together.

 

I'd actually take that off of the next Spielberg movie if it's available.

 

R,

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If there are more traditional producing means that you think will do better for me, please suggest them.

 

Here's a question for you Abdullah, how do you think student films were made prior to the creation of the internet and things like Kickstarter?

 

When I was in film school the web was just in its baby steps, and there was no Kickstarter, but we all made our films.

 

R,

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Here's a question for you Abdullah, how do you think student films were made prior to the creation of the internet and things like Kickstarter?

 

When I was in film school the web was just in its baby steps, and there was no Kickstarter, but we all made our films.

 

R,

 

I applaud you for managing without the internet back then. I am truly grateful for it, and I intend to use it to my full advantage. It is a very valuable new tool.

 

Now, we are running other fundraisng other than kickstarter, such as: door to door campaigns, card tournaments, garage sales, and things that don't require internet. Why are we doing these? Because it is all we know. We are learning. If you believe there are better ways to find money to fund a film, please feel free to suggest them; I need all the help I can get.

 

If anyone also knows how to better fund with Kickstarter, I am open for any tips! Thank You!

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It's a presale - pretty obviously - because someone's paying for something before they receive it. You could, if you were feeling particularly curmudgeonly, argue that it isn't quite the same sort of presale that's been traditional at the high end of the commercial film industry, because you aren't getting a fee for the film and then a portion of the box office, you're just getting a fee for the film. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, though, especially as you're then free to sell it in the traditional manner if that opportunity happens to drop in your lap.

 

But in many ways that's exactly the point. The traditional manner simply does not exist outside a microscopically refined bubble to which most people have no realistic hope of gaining access. If you're interested in making short films - let's call them web serials, though, because that's a new outlet that's been extremely successful of late - there is often absolutely no funding outside that available to support tedious issue movies. In anywhere but the US and India (I'm constantly astonished that it's possible in Canada) there is effectively no tradition of commercial filmmaking, so there is no traditional route. There is no route whatsoever.

 

And even if there were, glib lines about youngsters learning the ropes are great until you realise that entrepreneurism, like acting, is not something that is readily learned, even if it was a particularly desirable characteristic in a human being. Whenever I've had any contact with people just such as film producers who refer to themselves as entrepreneurs, they've almost invariably been pretty unpleasant human beings, genuinely nasty pieces of work with an almost psychopathic self-regard, insatiable, rapacious greed and a sense of entitlement that makes Kickstarter users look like dormice. You might not like the fact that people have to resort to Kickstarter to fund a short. Neither do I. But I like that idea much better than that they find a traditional film producer, who will almost certainly walk off with any oh-so-unlikely proceeds and a look of smug self-satisfaction.

 

Please, let's not criticise the morals of people like Abdullah in comparison to the average film financier. It's absolutely laughable. Film producers are in general pretty unpleasant people.

 

But in a broader sense I'm just not sure why this isn't a good business model. Instead of studios risking a king's ransom on something and hoping it will be a success, or at least making sure we have no choice but to go and see it if we want to go to the movies at all, crowdfunding tests a project's potential for success before it's even made. It avoids the involvement of dislikable moneylenders, who make money for doing next to nothing. It enables people to make stuff for an audience that's too small for the major players. It enables unexpected and interesting projects to happen. It works really well for little web series. I have no idea why this sort of thing shouldn't become a perfectly respectable method of funding entertainment.

 

P

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I have no idea why this sort of thing shouldn't become a perfectly respectable method of funding entertainment.

 

Who knows maybe in the future the big five studios will finance all of their movies this way? Want to see Iron Man 14? Pony up 15 bucks in advance please.

 

R,

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Well then please enlighten me on how to better get funding for the film. We

 

 

Well then please enlighten me on how to better send this film across to people? We have been going around locally and succeeding in getting funds, but I'm posting on a cinematographer off-topic forum for help on the kickstarter, which I think is appropriate. Then again, I'm young and nieve, I could be wrong, but I'm confident this is how forums work (atleast the ones I've been on.) I've worked on gigs before and I've had my share of the cut-throat attitude that people unfortunately have in this industry.

 

I hope to try my chances to reach a compassionate filmmaker who remembers the feeling of being in my position way back in the beginning. We all start somewhere. With all this being said, thank you for your input. I will keep trying on other websites aswell. My intentions were never to annoy any of you "working stiffs". You all humble me with your input, and I am greatful.

 

My sincere apologies.

I wasn't kidding about approaching dentists. They make an enormous amount of money and have a mundane, glamorous job. They, often times, crave the excitement they don't get in their normal life and are educated and appreciate artistic endeavors and enjoy meeting celebrities. Then there's the professional film investors, lawyers, banks anyone with money. Hit them ALL. The problem with Kickstarter is the competition for funds. Guys like Zack Braff have the inside track. He was on "Scrubs" for like 10 years ( I LOVED that show BTW) AND already HAD a critically acclaimed movie that starred freakin' Natalie Portman, one of the BIGGEST stars on EARTH. What you MIGHT be able to do also is get professional to work for you at either at reduced or deferred pay. It doesn't GIVE you production money but it DOES save you production money. You're not the first guy to try finding funding for a movie, David Lynch took 5 years to get Ereaserhead and funded it himself. There was one scene where the guy opened a door then cut to walking through the other side. They were shot 5 years apart. IF you really WANT to get a movie made, you'll find a way to GET a movie made!! Get creative. You'll figure it out, especially NOW where you can shoot it on DV, edit and color correct it it on your laptop and burn it to DVD, light it with halogen worklights and use cell phones to record sound. Figure out what you need. Are you shooting in natural light? Use beadboard with aluminum foil taped to one side as reflectors, a wheelchair as a dolly, feed your cast and crew spaghetti dinners, borrow props and costumes or buy them at Goodwill, Don't ask permission to shoot if you can get away with it. Put every DIME up on the screen. Sci/fi is a BAD first choice because generally it costs a LOT more than other genres. Horror is your best bet BUT apocalyptic, world, background CGI elements done by your friends, creative costume elements, maybe you can pull it off. You'd be surprised how much one can do with nothing.

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Maybe our standard for Kickstarter related posts is that said posts should be mostly on-topic with the board they're posted in--ie, tell us more about the cinematography, the script, or history of the project than you would when posting to FB, or a more general interest forum.

 

It sounds like cool project, and considering that I've drawn more than one paycheck from projects that were crowdfunded, I am setting aside a little bit of spare cash for small contributions.

 

I feel as though I've been apprenticing for the past few months with friends who've both succeeded and failed in crowdfunding, the best thing I've learned is that fundraising on the web is not that much different from fundraising in real life--except you can reach a larger audience without the expense of traditional media. Invest a hundred bucks to throw a fundraising party! Also, in my experience, there are often blogs and local media that are looking for quick subjects for arts and entertainment stories. Though your target budget is low enough that you have a good shot at raising it from one and two degree connections. Hopefully your actors and other collaborators are doing the same thing!

 

Good luck!

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BTW, without a track record, pre-sales will be tough at best.

 

People can learn how to use the banks and state tax incentives. It takes time, but people can do it. At the very least you narrow the equity gap, which is every producer's goal.

 

R,

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People can learn how to use the banks and state tax incentives. It takes time, but people can do it. At the very least you narrow the equity gap, which is every producer's goal.

 

R,

Please elaborate, if you would, for your reading audience, sir. I'm sure it would be informative and enlightening for everyone here trying to find money for a film.

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People can learn how to use the banks and state tax incentives.

 

I'm usually reticent to make this accusation, but this really has to be some sort of troll. Banks and state tax incentives for a $1500 short film? You're joking. It's absurd to consider these things even for fairly upscale independent productions, let alone someone's little indie short.

 

No bank will lend to a short film because they are not generally even intended to be a moneymaking proposition. No bank will lend to a producer with no track record, regardless of the type of production. We all know that the vast majority of independent filmmaking - of whatever length - is never distributed, and the vast majority of what's distributed never makes money. Banks either know this, or know so little about the film industry that they won't even schedule the meeting. No bank is ever going to lend against independent filmmaking, and I don't blame them. They're quite sensible to want nothing to do with it.

 

Tax incentives only become relevant once millions of units of currency are at play. They are certainly completely irrelevant to anyone at the level likely to ask for help on this forum.

 

Whatever you or I think of this situation, it remains the truth. The fact that you, Richard, may have been lucky enough to make some of this stuff work is just that, luck, and proposing it as a course of action to other people - especially with the implication that they're somehow backsliders if they don't do so - is irresponsible and offensive. I've said this before, so I'll start referring to it as the Robert Rodriguez gambit: people read his book about the production of El Mariachi, in which he happens to walk into the office of someone who had a lot of sway with regard to distribution at precisely the time they happen to be looking for precisely the kind of film he has. This will not happen for the overwhelming majority of people, and it isn't reasonable to take risks against the assumption that it will.

 

 

Mistaking luck for ability is a crippling mistake.

 

P

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No, Phil, I was not suggesting someone use banks and tax credits for a 1500 short film. I was talking long term as to how a person could move forward and make bigger projects. Actually have a career as a producer. That is what I'm talking about.

 

Calling me a "troll"? Saying I'm just lucky? What's going on? Not sure why you've decided to use such terms to attack a fellow professional on the forum all of a sudden. Every successful person on this forum is just lucky? Surprising.

 

R,

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Not sure why you've decided to use such terms to attack a fellow professional on the forum all of a sudden.

 

Because you're criticising people for failing to do things that they can't do, to wit:

 

 

 

Young producers would be better served by learning the traditional means of financing a film

 

People do not become producers in the Hollywood system you seem to admire by being young producers. They become producers in that system by starting off as an office junior at a production company and fetching tea a lot. If they are sufficiently sycophantic and self-regarding, and if they were born to the right parents and went to all the right parties growing up, they will eventually move up through the suit-wearing ranks and become producers. And, as I've said at length, these are not generally very nice people and I would hesitate to recommend it as a career goal to anyone even if it were possible.

 

And, as I've made more than clear, it is generally not possible. Trying to take your route, by being a "young producer" and producing independent projects, is an approach which is vanishingly unlikely to lead to the big time, by which I mean anything approaching a career. It's unlikely even to lead to any finished projects because, as again I've already pointed out, nobody who's involved with financing the real, serious, commercial film industry has even the slightest interest in independent film. Which, after all, is why they're in the real film industry, by which I mean that part of it which is capable of providing people with a career.

 

So stop telling people to do it. If you are an American and you live in LA and your father is a multimillionaire film producer, maybe. If you are a nobody with no connections, forget about it. If it was possible, if it was doable even if difficult, and if it was a simple matter of "learning the ropes", people would do it. As it is it almost never happens and this is why.

 

P

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Well Phil I suppose we could turn this into a rather lengthly back and forth. I would start by pointing out the now rather long list of inaccuracies in your posts. Really you know nothing about producing. Hardly your area of expertise.

 

But frankly Phil, I can't be bothered. Believe what you want to believe.

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I'm usually reticent to make this accusation, but this really has to be some sort of troll. Banks and state tax incentives for a $1500 short film? You're joking. It's absurd to consider these things even for fairly upscale independent productions, let alone someone's little indie short.

 

No bank will lend to a short film because they are not generally even intended to be a moneymaking proposition. No bank will lend to a producer with no track record, regardless of the type of production. We all know that the vast majority of independent filmmaking - of whatever length - is never distributed, and the vast majority of what's distributed never makes money. Banks either know this, or know so little about the film industry that they won't even schedule the meeting. No bank is ever going to lend against independent filmmaking, and I don't blame them. They're quite sensible to want nothing to do with it.

 

Tax incentives only become relevant once millions of units of currency are at play. They are certainly completely irrelevant to anyone at the level likely to ask for help on this forum.

 

Whatever you or I think of this situation, it remains the truth. The fact that you, Richard, may have been lucky enough to make some of this stuff work is just that, luck, and proposing it as a course of action to other people - especially with the implication that they're somehow backsliders if they don't do so - is irresponsible and offensive. I've said this before, so I'll start referring to it as the Robert Rodriguez gambit: people read his book about the production of El Mariachi, in which he happens to walk into the office of someone who had a lot of sway with regard to distribution at precisely the time they happen to be looking for precisely the kind of film he has. This will not happen for the overwhelming majority of people, and it isn't reasonable to take risks against the assumption that it will.

 

 

Mistaking luck for ability is a crippling mistake.

 

P

This is a $15 hundred dollar short??! Well, never the less, I still think a discussion of pre-sales and bank loans would be beneficial to a LOT of people who don't know the specifics of these assets. I'm also sure Mr. Boddington was unaware the film in question was a short as it's length was never mentioned here and that he was speaking in general film making terms and CERTAINLY doesn't need to be chided for offering up information I for one, would like to hear, or didn't you take the time to consider that before leapfrogged to the conclusion this was a "troll", Phil?

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