Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted August 6, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted August 6, 2013 why did you quit trying? I never began trying to produce feature films, for all the reasons I've given. I could produce a feature film quite straightforwardly in London - I probably wouldn't even have to pay anyone. It would risk being pretty awful, of course, but I don't think that's the main reason why it wouldn't get sold. And, let's be crystal clear here, it wouldn't get sold. Or, more to the point, I really couldn't produce a feature film in London. Despite Richard's characterisation of Kickstarter as, somehow, the approach of the lazy, feckless and evil, I actually have some fairly inflexible views on the acceptability of asking people to work for nothing. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Now, is getting money out of people really something anyone can do? Or is it actually quite hard? P I would point out that those two sentances don't really connect Phil. The answer to both of them might be No for example. Are there people who have really good sales skills and for whom getting money out of the right people is somewhat easy? Yes. Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Actually, yeah if you used crew and services in the states with incentive like New Mexico. and you were paying states taxes for that privilege. If you were doing the work in the states would you be liable for states taxes or still have to pay UK taxes on earnings as a UK citizen? Not sure how that would work. Also not sure how much I could just go to another country and shoot. Would I need to get myself a green card or something like that for it to be legal? Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 No, but you certainly did repeatedly tell us that anyone who didn't do it was just some sort of morally bankrupt backslider, which is more or less the same thing, only using more words. PHIL THAT'S IT!!!!!!!!! SHUT THE *BLEEP* UP YOU TURD!!! I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF YOU!!! I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OF THE SORT!!! I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL HAS GOTTEN INTO YOU! YOU CONTINUALLY PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH AND SPOUTING FALSEHOODS IS TOTALLY OUT OF LINE HERE!!!!!!! IDIOT! R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 PHIL THAT'S IT!!!!!!!!! SHUT THE *BLEEP* UP YOU TURD!!! I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF YOU!!! I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OF THE SORT!!! I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE HELL HAS GOTTEN INTO YOU! YOU CONTINUALLY PUTTING WORDS INTO MY MOUTH AND SPOUTING FALSEHOODS IS TOTALLY OUT OF LINE HERE!!!!!!! IDIOT! R, YIKES! I think you are getting a bit carried away Richard. It's only Phil!!! Theres no need to get upset. He isn't that scary or anything! ;) Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted August 6, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted August 6, 2013 I NEVER SAID ANYTHING OF THE SORT!!! Grr, argh, etc! Yes you did. I don't think it's appropriate to solicit funds to make a movie with from fellow film people... I have said that many times on here.... Young producers would be better served by learning the traditional means of financing a film. I talk to many....frankly they just don't want to put the effort in... I would hope that Tim would start a policy that bans fundraising on this site... See? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 No, but you certainly did repeatedly tell us that anyone who didn't do it was just some sort of morally bankrupt backslider, which is more or less the same thing, only using more words. I don't remember him using the words "morally bankrupt backslider" and I just skimmed the text and see nothing that says that either. I could have missed it but I note that you do not actually quote him here. If you are paraphrasing Phil, then I would remind you that you are a bit of a glass half empty guy and you are probably interpreting his words and putting a spin on them. Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Yes, and I stand by my words that it is not appropriate to solicit funds to make a movie on this site. I also stand by my words that there are plenty of alternatives. Phil, why don't you stand outside King's Cross and beat a tin cup, whilst holding a cardboard sign that says, "will work for movie budget." That seems to be about the extent of your knowledge of the business world. Go back to debating pixels with the RED guys, that's about the only thing you can truly claim you have a knowledge of. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Young producers would be better served by learning the traditional means of financing a film. I talk to many....frankly they just don't want to put the effort in... I think Richard is right and that people would be well served by learning the traditional means of financing a film, and I would go further and add "even if those means are out of reach from them". I think by having a better understanding of how the system works there would be more opportunity to find gaps and ways and means to making things work, or alternatively they will be able to understand how it is supposed to work and come up with alternative means to achieve the same thing. I also think kickstarter could be a good way to get to the level where you might be able to work with the more traditional means too, but having an understanding of the traditional means, may help you to plan how to go about things with kickstarter etc. Freya Edited August 6, 2013 by Freya Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Go back to debating pixels with the RED guys, that's about the only thing you can truly claim you have a knowledge of. R, That's unfair. Phil has great knowledge of a lot of technical stuff. Probably stuff you aren't so knowledgeable about. Different people have different skill sets. We aren't all the same and that's why it's hard to see sometimes that the stuff that is easy for one person might be difficult for another. It's like when Phil a few posts back suggested that getting money out of people was really, really hard, but I would say that for some people it is a lot easier to do that than to understand the technical stuff behined Bayer sensors or colour spaces or LUTS or other techie stuff. It's good when people with different knowledge bases can learn from one another. Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted August 6, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted August 6, 2013 That's hilarious, I was shooting outside King's Cross last week! Look, if you think I'm wrong on any particular point, please, I'm all ears. This is one of the things that winds me up most about all this stuff. It's all "well, you should do it properly and get a big bank loan and presales and tax credits", but then we're desperately short on detail as to how any of that is actually achieved. Now, I think the reason that detail is missing from this conversation is that there really is no way to achieve it. A link earlier in this thread made it clear that the costs of putting a financial package together for a film can be $100,000, which is many times the total budget of the sort of thing mere mortals like me are likely to be involved with. So, you need to have many, many millions of pounds floating around before it becomes even slightly worthwhile. No? As always, I'm ready to be proven wrong. P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 That's hilarious, I was shooting outside King's Cross last week! Really!!??? Isn't it presently still just a building site? I guess you could use all that cream wood as a strange kind of backdrop but.... Why Kings Cross? Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 but then we're desperately short on detail as to how any of that is actually achieved. How many times do I have to friggin' say it....no one is going to type out a step-by-step process for you on this forum. Is that what you expect? Why don't I just type out all the knowledge acquired via a four year film degree while I am at it? Would it seriously harm you Phil to type, "basics of film producing" into a Google search. Maybe you could at least start there and make an effort vs waiting for someone to come and hold your hand. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Phil Rhodes Posted August 6, 2013 Premium Member Share Posted August 6, 2013 Why don't I just type out all the knowledge acquired via a four year film degree while I am at it? Then stop implying people are baddies for not doing it. In all seriousness, the best information you can get online is the sort of thing we had linked earlier, which basically concludes "not a chance in hell unless you're already rich." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Now, I think the reason that detail is missing from this conversation is that there really is no way to achieve it. A link earlier in this thread made it clear that the costs of putting a financial package together for a film can be $100,000, which is many times the total budget of the sort of thing mere mortals like me are likely to be involved with. So, you need to have many, many millions of pounds floating around before it becomes even slightly worthwhile. No? As always, I'm ready to be proven wrong. P It didn't quite say that. It was suggesting that the legal costs you could run up could amount to that. It said could. It didn't say will. It's also a uk film site which are usually written from the angle of big budget productions by UK standards. It would be great if we had an idea of the mimimum needed to say do tax credit based deals etc. We don't know this without more research tho. Freya Edited August 6, 2013 by Freya Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 How many times do I have to friggin' say it....no one is going to type out a step-by-step process for you on this forum. Is that what you expect? Why don't I just type out all the knowledge acquired via a four year film degree while I am at it? Would it seriously harm you Phil to type, "basics of film producing" into a Google search. Maybe you could at least start there and make an effort vs waiting for someone to come and hold your hand. R, While you cant tell us everything about it, I do have a couple of questions about stuff that might be helpful for me to know! When you started out financing Dark Reprieve, were there things you learnt from that experience or that you wished you'd done differently or thought you could have done better? I seem to remember that was self funded basically? Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 In all seriousness, the best information you can get online is the sort of thing we had linked earlier, which basically concludes "not a chance in hell unless you're already rich." That was an excellent article that James dug up. Dead impressed with it! :) HOWEVER, it doesn't conclude anything of the sort. It is written from the point of view that "you are already rich" as you put it, but that isn't the same thing at all. I'm not arguing that you are wrong in your assumption, just that the evidence you are pointing to, does not back up your assumption. If the evidence is not there then we can't conclusively be certain that you are right about this. Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) In all seriousness, the best information you can get online is the sort of thing we had linked earlier, which basically concludes "not a chance in hell unless you're already rich." I would say that a lot of the info in that article is however coming from the angle that you have an established track record as well, far more than the financial aspect. As you have suggested frequently in the postings in this thread, there is the credibility gap to overcome in order to attain much financing. The question when you are really at the bottom may be more about establishing that credibility than establishing the finance. Richard's credibility was established through the movie Dark Reprieve, he had done some stuff before that but it was through Dark Reprieve that he became perceived as "a known quantity". I'm sure it is easier to get financing if you have some kind of track record. Freya Edited August 6, 2013 by Freya Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Yes, Dark Reprieve was self funded. As are quite a number of first time indie features. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 (edited) Yes, Dark Reprieve was self funded. As are quite a number of first time indie features. R, I wondered if there was anything about the way it was funded and generally produced that you would do differently now. I imagine you learned a lot from the films you have put out since. In the situation you were in then, would you have done anything differently? Freya Edited August 6, 2013 by Freya Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Yes, too much to type! :blink: Same for any project really, and I'm sure any filmmaker would say the same. No matter what the budget is. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Yes, too much to type! :blink: Same for any project really, and I'm sure any filmmaker would say the same. No matter what the budget is. R, Well could you give one example of something you did in relation to the funding on Dark Reprieve that you would do differently now? Did you feel that you were very inexperienced going into the first film? Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Gray Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Well could you give one example of something you did in relation to the funding on Dark Reprieve that you would do differently now? Did you feel that you were very inexperienced going into the first film? Freya That's a secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 That's a secret. Don't you start as well Travis. Freya just PM me. I'm done here. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freya Black Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 Okay maybe some of these questions are so broad that the answer is kinda 42. ;) Freya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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