stinger??

March 17, 2004

Here's the best diagram I could find of the over-under method:

Remember, this is not for power cables. The sad thing is, while looking for a page that had an adequate diagram, I found many University curriculums that describe the over-under method as the preferred way to wrap power cables and lamps. Never true, and I have seen many people reprimanded and fired for practicing such a technique.

Phil,

As Mr. Nash said this is what I meant by the over-under method. It is of course just as bad as the over-the-arm method you describe. The over-over method is the only correct technique. This is obviously where you make one continuous clockwise coil with your cable while holding it freely in one hand and coiling with the other. I apologize if there was any confusion on either of our parts.

Brad Grimmett · March 18, 2004

This will also make the cable "untrainable" and very difficult to properly wrap in the future.

The second is that if you try to run a cable that has been wrapped over-under it will coil and twist into an ungainly mess. You would need to stretch out the entirety of the cable and whip the kinks out before you could run it. If not done, when you grab a free end to run it will typically tangle and knot.

All power cables should be wrapped in a clockwise over-over motion, just like wrapping a garden hose. AFAIK the only cable that is supposed to be wrapped over-under is an XLR.

Not all of what you say is true. I may be being a bit nitpicky though.

As far as a cable being "untrainable" after being over-undered...that's not true. The whole point is to "train" a cable in the first place, whether it be over-over or over-under. Once you train it that way it will remain trained.

Also, what you say about uncoiling an over-undered cable is untrue. The whole point of over-undering a cable in the first place is so that there aren't any kinks and twists in it. It also makes it VERY easy to just grab one end and take off....providing you haven't pulled that end through the middle of the loop. The only way to manage a 1000ft triaX cable is to over-under it. You could never get it coiled otherwise. Heck even for a 100 footer it's necessary.

You're absolutely right about power cables, but I just wanted to make it clear that it doesn't apply to all cables.

Mitch Gross · March 18, 2004

Just a quick note on the "training" of cables. All cables are manufactured with a natural coiling. The bare wiring or cable bundles are run through a hot rubberized plastic bath (polyethelyne I believe) and the wrapped around a large drum to cool. By doing so one side of the cable hardens a bit shorter than the other giving it a natureal coiling. If you simply follow this curve when wrapping the cable then the loops will all form to about the same size and the cable will not kink. Nice and neat and uncoils smoothly. Works just as well as over-under and a lot faster in my book.

Where you REALLY need over-under is with feeder cable. That stuff weighs a ton. Most guys I know wrap it on the ground in a figure-eight pattern and then flip it over on itself when done. Try holding four 100' 4/O cables tied together in one hand and wrapping them with the other hand. Weighs a ton.

March 18, 2004

I concur Grimmett.

I've done dozens and dozens of live, multi-camera video shoots with ESPN and others and they ALL roll Triax cables over and under.

March 18, 2004

I concur Grimmett.

I've done dozens and dozens of live, multi-camera video shoots with ESPN and others and they ALL roll Triax cables over and under.

March 18, 2004

You're absolutely right about power cables, but I just wanted to make it clear that it doesn't apply to all cables.

Well, since the original post was about stingers and I nor any other made an inference toward any other form of cabling other than stingers, I wonder why you thought I was being all inclusive of the cabling world, even when I explicitly stated my facts?

As Mitch said all cable (i.e., Stinger) is manufactured with a natural or "trained" coil. In addition to this the internal wiring has a natural grain or twist to it that necessitates being wound in a clockwise over-over fashion. Simply cutting open any 12/3 cable reveals this. Why anyone would wrap a stinger against its natural grain and claim that they are training it is beyond me.

When a stinger is wrapped over-under it destroys the natural lay and direction of this internal 3-wire cable. When a stinger is run after being coiled over-under (without being stretched out first) it will kink back onto and into itself, whereby in time, breaking the cable internally. I have read far too many manuals, built too many stingers, repaired them, and sold unmanageable units for scrap to know this to be anything but fact. I even used to keep small lengths of particularly bad examples of the worst that over-undering can do. These lengths of 12/3 literally looked like black tube socks full of stones.

Everyone should remember that just because you see others do something a certain way, by no means is that necessarily the correct way. Sometimes purely ridiculous practices get started because no one stops to question the veracity or logic of the operation. If a practice has a particular useful function, the very nature of that function does make it global in its application.

If any of this sounds somewhat harsh it is not intended in that manner. I'm just still a little irked at what MK Ultra has done to this thread...

Brad Grimmett · March 19, 2004

Most guys I know wrap it on the ground in a figure-eight pattern and then flip it over on itself when done. Try holding four 100' 4/O cables tied together in one hand and wrapping them with the other hand. Weighs a ton.

Ugh! Well I guess if you know it's coiled that way when you uncoil it, it's fine. But when you don't know it's quite a mess. I used to do a lot of golf with ESPN and we once got a truck that had come from a previous job in Hawaii. We pulled the cable off the truck (500 footers of triax (about 25000 ft. total) and it all LOOKED like it was over-undered) and started running it out on the course. We found out very quickly that it was wrapped in that figure eight/fold in half method. Apparently that's how they do it in Hawaii. It took a long time to untangle just that one mess of spaghetti. And it was a pain to deal with the rest of the cable even though we knew how it was coiled since we were all used to dealing with over-undered cable. And it's the same with triax as far as weight. Picking up a 500 footer is a chore for one person. Picking up a 1000 footer is almost impossible. It's all coiled on the ground by hand. You learn to over-under on the ground very quickly when you do golf! CBS is the only exception I believe. They use automatic cable coilers that coil at something like 30mph.

I guess my point is that you should stick with whatever the standard is, whether it be over-over or over-under, or whatever. Saves a lot of headaches for the next person who has to use it. Of course it's more important when you're talking about 1000 footers than when you're talking about 50 footers.

Brad Grimmett · March 19, 2004

You're absolutely right about power cables, but I just wanted to make it clear that it doesn't apply to all cables.

Well, since the original post was about stingers and I nor any other made an inference toward any other form of cabling other than stingers, I wonder why you thought I was being all inclusive of the cabling world, even when I explicitly stated my facts?

I didn't mean to start a whole other "thing" by making my post. Also, I didn't assume that you were being all inclusive to the cabling world. I just thought I would make it absolutely clear that not all cables should be treated in the same manner as stingers. Other people may have been making assumptions, so I thought I would make it clear, because I didn't think it was already completely clear. That's all. That's why I wrote, "You're absolutely right about power cables, but I just wanted to make it clear that it doesn't apply to all cables."

You do seem a bit argumentative. I didn't mean to start any kind of argument. There's enough of that around here already. ;)

March 19, 2004

I didn't mean to start a whole other "thing" by making my post. Also, I didn't assume that you were being all inclusive to the cabling world. I just thought I would make it absolutely clear that not all cables should be treated in the same manner as stingers.

Oh, okay, cool deal then. B)

Sorry to read too much into it.

You do seem a bit argumentative. I didn't mean to start any kind of argument. There's enough of that around here already. ;)

Brad,

I actually have read and enjoy all of your posts. Anyone who can make it out of the grinder that is Florida with their career intact is deserving of respect. I don't typically mean to come across in such a grievous manner, as of late I have tried to reserve that aspect of myself for a singular party who is not worthy to be named here. Believe it or not I was questioning my approach with said individual based on the assumption that by "pulling back his curtain" as it were, I may be alienating other faithful and professional members here. I obviously decided that in this case it would be more detrimental to remain silent. And look where it has led me...

Like yourself I had no intention of starting anything, especially with a good and decent member of this board. What I was attempting was to end the ceaseless and possibly dangerous campaign of misinformation, that you and no other higher mammals were obviously adding to. I sincerely didn't mean to catch anyone else in the crossfire. Sorry about the confusion.

There's no emoticon for "The Horns", oh well, maybe next time... ;)