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Joseph OMalley

Your thoughts on 2 perf 35mm film

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Just got in touch with Arri Munich, Germany. They have the 2 perf body I'll need. I'll have a quote soon and we'll do the deal through a rental company in Dublin. All worked out the end :)

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Has anyone got advice regarding costs of 2 perf vs Alexa Prores. I have heard that there's not much difference in the price. I have a good idea on how much the 2 perf might cost. But I've never shot Alexa Prores and I'm not sure what kind of storage costs we would be talking about.

 

Thanks to a great deal at a lab and getting Fuji stock from Frame24 - I know the 2 perf format can be quite cheap. I was told by a DP who shot both that if I shot Kodak stock the Alexa would be slightly cheaper...but I wonder if the 2 perf will work out cheaper since our stock will only cost around 10k Euro vs 25-30k Euro with Kodak.

 

It would be nice to show the producer we can do 2 perf cheaper...if that's the case. We're talking about a shooting ratio of about 12:1.

 

Stephen, you said the platinum is not good for steadicam. But you can use it for that, right? It's just a bit heavy? I'm thinking of going for panavision because it's a good bit cheaper...but the Arricam package is expensive...and happens to be about the same as the Alexa package (which I don't want). The cost of the Arricam might push us towards digital to help with savings. But if the platinum can be used for (some) steadicam then that would be best.

 

Is there anything I can look at regards the cost of Alexa to help me show the producer film would be the better option. I keep hearing about the post production costs of digital vs film. Will shooting 2 perf save money in the DI? Because with Alexa you're shooting a flat image and I'm told the grade will be two-to-three times longer than a grade on film.

 

Any info anyone can share would be great.

 

Thanks.

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Guest Stephen Murphy

No you cannot use the platinum for Steadicam. You used to be able to rent a "Steadicam conversion kit" for the platinum but I always advise against that. The platinum is a great camera but it is NOT a Steadicam camera - you need a panaflex lightweight 2 or a millennium xl for Steadicam.

 

And you shouldn't be comparing 2 perf to Alexa prores, you should be comparing it to arri raw - there's a BIG difference costwise.

 

I think the best thing you can do at this point is get your DP involved. There are too many variables involved and a lot depends on the specifics of your production so really any advice you get here is general and you'd be a lot better getting whoever is shooting your movie to address these issues as they relate to your specific shoot rather then us possibly giving you the wrong advice and then your poor dp being saddled with the consequences:)!

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So for steadicam I'd really have to go Arricam then. Okay. Will have to talk to DP about that.

 

I'm told arriraw can cost more than film. But I don't think anyone here is using it apart from bigger productions that have come in from the UK or USA. This film is less than a million euro.

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Hi Joseph, I've been in your situation and the problem is that all prices are variable. I've tried for months finding a good starting point of comparison between 2-perf and Alexa prores. I agree with Stephen that you shouldn't take Arriraw out of the equation, but unfortunately that option was far too expensive. Especially nowadays you can get very good deals on stock and film camera packages. Labs are also willing to help you out. Often when asking the price of something, we would get the reply: how much have you got? That's what it's come down to I'm afraid.

 

I was able to shoot on 2-perf, but not without some sacrifices which I though were well worth it. I had to be very specific on which lighting I needed on different shooting days. I would be working with reflection boards and a maybe a couple small lights one week and a cherry picker lighting a whole street the other. Also crew wise you have to be specific. One week I just had a gaffer and an intern. The next we'd be working with a full team. That was a risk, but everybody was willing to take it, because with good planning you don't need a lot to make 2-perf look exceptional.

I won't have a lot of time for grading, but I know I can work a lot faster with film so that'll be fine.

 

Last but not least, make sure your team has your back. They have to be willing to make unorthodox choices, but for me that was the fun of it!

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I just saw "The Innkkeepers" by Ti West which was shot on 2perf on the Aaton Penelope.

Was realy impressed with the way it looked compared to all the oodles of lifeless Alexa footage I've seen lately.

 

Freya

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I am getting ready to test a B&H 2709....35mm.... I think it's 2 perf. This stuff's all pretty new to me. But from everything everyone says... the 2709 is a rock steady cam and pretty reliable though noisy (and heavy). My way around the noise is long lenses for certain shots and I'm planning on trying to make a blimp to house it. I've worked with fiberglass before and I think I can make one. I'm pretty excited to see what kind of results I can get on first test with a 100 year old hand crank camera. I have a motor that came with it, but it was designed as an animation motor so I am going to be talking to someone about making a motor for it which works with the frame counter I have at standard FPS speeds. If anyone wants to contact me directly about it my e-mail is fergusnod@yahoo.com Fergus O'

Doherty.. (757)525-1658 Virginia Beach (facebook) I am going to need all the advice I can find. Everyone of you who use this website are my heroes. Thank you

 

Lincoln ( featured extra)

Pioneers Turned Millionaires ( Henry J Heinz)

Atlantis Down (sci-fi camera crew Red One)

The Night Vampires went after The Pope (author)

New Detectives (extra)

The Bureau (extra)

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I am getting ready to test a B&H 2709....35mm.... I think it's 2 perf. This stuff's all pretty new to me. But from everything everyone says... the 2709 is a rock steady cam and pretty reliable though noisy (and heavy). My way around the noise is long lenses for certain shots and I'm planning on trying to make a blimp to house it. I've worked with fiberglass before and I think I can make one. I'm pretty excited to see what kind of results I can get on first test with a 100 year old hand crank camera. I have a motor that came with it, but it was designed as an animation motor so I am going to be talking to someone about making a motor for it which works with the frame counter I have at standard FPS speeds. If anyone wants to contact me directly about it my e-mail is fergusnod@yahoo.com Fergus O'

Doherty.. (757)525-1658 Virginia Beach (facebook) I am going to need all the advice I can find. Everyone of you who use this website are my heroes. Thank you

 

Lincoln ( featured extra)

Pioneers Turned Millionaires ( Henry J Heinz)

Atlantis Down (sci-fi camera crew Red One)

The Night Vampires went after The Pope (author)

New Detectives (extra)

The Bureau (extra)

I would be very surprised if you have a 2709 in 2 perf, unless it was used as an optical printer at some point.

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You could track down someone probably but it would be crazy expensive vs. finding a used one and buying that. 2 perf conversions are not like making a standard 16mm camera Super 16...much more involved with the movement.

 

Start with Bruce at arandafilm in Australia. If he can't do it then he may know someone who will or you can try to give him crazy amounts of money to do one for you.

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I'm shooting with this 2709 at the end of this week. I thought it was 2 perf but I was corrected... it's 4. I'll check that. I am shooting lens tests next Friday with Goerz Hypars ( 1 5/8 & 2") , Cooke Speed Panchro 50mm and I have a couple of others. I have a B&L 51mm 2" which I need to make an adapter for ( but the machro effect is amazing and I have a 600mm Kilfit, a 500mm Birns and Sawyer, a 154mm and 254mm Eymax and a few others. We're working a semi fictional civil war doc. called Fetchin' Water. ( Facebook). I also have a modified turret for it which takes PL mounts and Nikons. I have a Toshiba zoom also which I am testing after I get the adapter made.

 

Fetchin' Water is a story made from letters that were written by people during the war. We're cleaning up the trailer this week for posting.

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I would be very surprised if you have a 2709 in 2 perf, unless it was used as an optical printer at some point.

yeah it's 4. But looking at the film shuttle a good machinist could make a 2 perf right? I mean that's how they were made to begin with right ?

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Hi,

 

I am interested in buying 35mm 2 perf camera.

Please let me know if its available some where.

 

Thanks regards

 

Waqas Arshad

email: waqas.arshad1984@gmail.com

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A little late to this thread but we started using a Arri 2B 35mm 2 perf Techniscope for our production, in addition we purchased a Arri 2C 2 perf 35mm. So far no issues with gate hairs. It's a great format and far an away more pleasing (to us) to view, edit, grade opposed to the DSLR format we left behind. In our cost analysis it was more economical to purchase 2 perf cameras and shoot film. Although it appears the digital cine camera manufactures would like you to think it much costlier.

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i am downsizing my 2 perf Kinor 35H 35mm cameras. I have three bodies for sale. First one is a body that was modernized by solid entertainment, new electronics ,pitch conversion, and repaint. 2 perf conversion done by bruce at arananda, It has been sitting there when the red camera camera out, so it's virtually a new camera unused since rebuild. make me an offer!

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