Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 I am parting out my CP-16 camera kit as my camera test came back unfavorable. Here is a list of parts I am selling on ebay with completely honest descriptions of each part. Honestly, everything works great except the body which I discussed in great detail on the page and put a screen grab of the camera test to show the problem. Camera body http://www.ebay.com/itm/171321122220?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 Mags http://www.ebay.com/itm/181401698226?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 Viewfinder http://www.ebay.com/itm/181401695843?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 AC Adapter (dummy block) http://www.ebay.com/itm/171321130427?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 2 batteries http://www.ebay.com/itm/171316887976?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181397673929?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 I also have an Angenieux 12-120mm 1:2-2.2 Zoom lens in great shape that I may consider parting with for a decent offer. I am not listing it on eBay because I may still want to keep it and get one of those adapters on eBay that allows me to use it with a BlackMagic camera. But if you are interested, you can shoot me a PM with an offer. Feel free to ask any questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Did you get anyone to look at it? You would have got some answers on the forum from cameramen and techs who know these well. In the frame I saw on your eBay all I could see was. - Really milky blacks, may be nothing to do with the camera...? - Bright objects are smeared as though the shutter timing is way off. If that's it you will confirm it easily. Load some film, pull the lens, put a mark on the emulsion in the gate. Inch the camera slowly, the mark shouldn't move. Ask someone who know the cameras. It may be an easy fix. Is the shutter belt driven? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 Gregg, this is the second CP16 I have owned and the same problems seem to arise out of both of them (except my last one was WAY worse.) The blacks could be because I overexposed the film because my light meter was on the blink. The lab (Spectra) told me that my footage had a "slight lost loop and appears to have light leaks." I am not going to pay $2k to have this camera overhauled. My frustration with these cameras is to the point where I never wish to see them again. 0 for 2 is a crap position to be in. My feature was delayed last year bc of it. I am afraid that, short of a miracle, I will probably just shoot my feature on a Blackmagic camera. I have some film in the fridge which hurts to get rid of though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Did you check the timing as described above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 Did you check the timing as described above? I am not quite sure I understood what you meant. You said load up some film, take a sharpie and mark the film at the gate from the lens side and inch the film and the mark shouldnt move? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Louis Seguin Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 2K for a camera overhaul??? That doesn't make any sense. This camera technician must be living very well indeed! Jean-Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 2K for a camera overhaul??? That doesn't make any sense. This camera technician must be living very well indeed! Jean-Louis That is what I was told that Paul Hilman charges from Visual Products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I am not quite sure I understood what you meant. You said load up some film, take a sharpie and mark the film at the gate from the lens side and inch the film and the mark shouldnt move? if it moves while the shutter is open you have a timing problem which causes the streaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 Yes, look in the lens port for any movement of the film while the shutter is open. There shouldn't be any. Some sharpie marks on the emulsion can help. Marking the emulsion just as the shutter starts to open is a trick, you may have to mark those corners then back up a couple of frames and then inch forward again. On the cost of overhaul issue. There will be a strata of prices. There must be a lot of techs in the States who know those cameras. Find someone who does stuff on the weekend, someone semi retired etc. Even the expensive techs will give you a few free minutes to talk over a problem or a camera. May not need an overhaul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 On the cost of overhaul issue. There will be a strata of prices. There must be a lot of techs in the States who know those cameras. Find someone who does stuff on the weekend, someone semi retired etc. Even the expensive techs will give you a few free minutes to talk over a problem or a camera. May not need an overhaul. I understand what you mean but I am losing serious dough on all of these camera film tests. Two tests so far have set me back $400 when you consider the cost of film, process, and telecine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I had a quick google on CP-16R shutter timing and got this. http://www.cinematography.net/edited-pages/CP16.HTM Interesting read about the different shutters and smearing. Also, sounds like with no external inching knob some folk inch the camera by moving the mirror (I'm assuming while checking the gate) and this has been known to upset the timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 Gregg, I checked as you described and you nailed it! It definitely is off as it starts to move slightly down right before the shutters closes. That would most likely have causes the smearing in the frame. Now, how to fix it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 I would work hard to find a tech near to you who knows CPs and is affordable to do the routine maintenance. I think he will reset the timing not too expensively. Think of the timing problem as a chance to start a relationship with that tech. Normally when you get a camera, the technician, seeing it for the first time, will want to look over everything, so it costs more the first time, but then less for the routine check and lube. You need continuity with that tech. That will reduce risk and cost over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 Gregg, I live in an area where people have long given up on film. I may be in California but I am in the northern part that barely resembles the state. There are no camera techs where I live. And I cannot continue to invest more and more into a camera that may or may not be worth it. It also has a light leak of which I have no idea where it is. I would have to track down that problem as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 You could ask how much servicing would cost here http://whitehouseaudiovisual.com/10multi_serv.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heikki Repo Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) To find the light leak insert a high power led light inside your camera when in a dark room. That helped me find the one causing me all my problems with my ACL. Edited May 5, 2014 by Heikki Repo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 You could ask how much servicing would cost here http://whitehouseaudiovisual.com/10multi_serv.html Whitehouse told me they dont service CP16s anymore and directed me to Paul Hillman at Visual Products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 In their day (CP16) there would have been a lot of techs that could service them. In NZ TVNZ in Auckland, Wellington and TV2 in Christchurch used a lot of CPs for news and docos. I lived in Christchurch for a while. There were at least two techs who could service the CPs. One of those techs is still living there, has a job as the general tech at the local art school. So make like a PI and find these people in your area. Re the costs of camera tests. - One can look at neg with a loupe directly. One can even project neg (registration test etc). A sympathetic lab may charge camera tests cheaper. - Lomo tanks are great for B&W camera tests. The small ones do something like 30', more than enough to check some things on a camera. Again, one can look at neg. Or one could process B&W reversal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 5, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 5, 2014 Another picture (with yours truly) for those interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 6, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 6, 2014 sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Now you can focus on the development of your film and leave the cinematography to Adriene or...Who may bring a camera and a basic production kit anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Dom Jaeger Posted May 6, 2014 Premium Member Share Posted May 6, 2014 I understand what you mean but I am losing serious dough on all of these camera film tests. Two tests so far have set me back $400 when you consider the cost of film, process, and telecine. I really don't understand why people buy old cine cameras, spend hundreds on film tests and then get annoyed because the camera doesn't work properly. If it's just a bit of fun messing around with film then fine, but if you're serious about producing something decent then surely you'd have the camera looked over by a technician first? These are precision instruments that are several decades old, you can't expect them to work like new. It needn't cost a fortune just to check them over, and like Gregg said, they don't always need a full overhaul. A mis-timed shutter would be picked up in minutes by a good technician and shouldn't take long to re-set. I recently looked over an SR that a young filmmaker from Western Australia had just bought. If you think you're isolated in north California you should try Western Australia. It's two day's drive to anywhere! First thing he did was freight the camera to me here in Melbourne. In a bit over an hour I had checked the main camera functions and settings, collimated his lenses (one was way out) and found some minor issues that could have wrecked his shoot but that were simple to fix. In the end he also had his mags checked and adjusted, his batteries cycled and checked, a new charger supplied, a S16 groundglass supplied, the viewfinder modified and a power cable made up. I also did a quick lubrication of the camera, not a full overhaul. Total for parts and labour was under a grand (Aussie dollars are roughly equivalent to US), and he went on to shoot his short film without a hitch. That's how you do it if you're serious. You have to factor in at least a couple of hours of technician's time into the cost of an older film camera, and some freight expenses if you live away from major centres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 6, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 6, 2014 I fixed the shutter issue already. It was indeed an easy fix once I knew that was it. The light leak, I haven't found though I tried Heikko's method but still couldnt find the leak. Dom. I have twice been lied to and told that the cameras were recently serviced. I am within my right to expect people to tell me the truth. You can think that I am wrong for not spending a fortune to get them serviced anyway but I couldn't care less because it is my money and not yours being spent. I imagine you will come back with "I would have known better than to blah blah" but you can save your breath because hindsight is 20/20. Sorry if I seem harsh but I don't believe you posted that comment without realizing that you are being obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Member Matthew W. Phillips Posted May 6, 2014 Author Premium Member Share Posted May 6, 2014 Now you can focus on the development of your film and leave the cinematography to Adriene or...Who may bring a camera and a basic production kit anyway.... Adrian? lol, I'll have to tell him that he now has an alternate spelling to his name. I doubt we will work together as he is very protective of his baby (SR3) and I cannot afford him and his taste since he is all big time now. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg MacPherson Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) Did I just call Adrian a girl? Please don't tell him. Adrian may well be upwardly mobile, but he will respond to a great idea and some talent (creativity). Edited May 6, 2014 by Gregg MacPherson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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