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[Matthew W. Phillips]

Well, the lack of funding is what makes it impossible to do, but my interest in pursuing the traditional pathway of film production is next to zero anyway, because in the UK, the resulting film simply cannot be sold.

 

P

You should come across the pond, friend.

[Brian Drysdale]

It's not impossible, but extremely difficult to get any project production funded. You have to be selective about picking a project (which difficult because you can't always tell the one that will go, possibly 1 in 200 well written, professional standard scripts) be totally passionate about it (if you're not, no one else will be) and be prepared to go through all the hoops and the time required.

[Guest]

Sounds like they need someone for Set Design. :D

 

Seriously though, Phil, have you ever thought of making a film and bringing some dignity to your homeland's industry? A guy with your knowledge should be able to put together a pretty good project?

 

It takes a producer to pull a film together. That's an individual Phil has repeatedly described as a low life etc. Which of course are qualities Phil does not possess, therefore.....he can get nothing made.

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

You're probably right. I'm not willing to do some of the things which are traditionally required of producers. Quite right.

 

The overriding concern, though, really, is that there simply is no market.

 

P

[Guest]

The market is tough for indie films these days, no one can argue against that point. Many indie filmmakers shoot themselves in the foot by making something that is completely unmarketable to begin with. That doesn't help.

 

R,

[Matthew W. Phillips]

 

It takes a producer to pull a film together. That's an individual Phil has repeatedly described as a low life etc. Which of course are qualities Phil does not possess, therefore.....he can get nothing made.

 

R,

Yeah, you are right Richard. I suppose I am among the slimy and cheap and lowlife sort of person who would dare to ask people to help me with my film while actually expecting them to come to work, work hard, follow direction, and not provide a pension plan for two weeks of work, chiropractor, massage, etc.

 

Although I love film making, I still have the business side which thinks its ridiculous that many of the crew positions are even considered employees and not independent contractors. I think many crew want a hybrid of the best of both worlds for when it suits them.

[Guest]

Don't forget the steak and lobster for dinner (crew will still moan and complain anyway), first class accommodations for everyone (crew will still say, my whirlpool only seats 8), equal pay for all crew as the director (even though the crew will work for 3 weeks and the director will be on the project for 3 years), limo transport from hotel to set for all crew (crew will still say, "Larry in G&E has a bigger limo than I do.) It goes on, and on, and on....

 

And don't forget every crew member attempting to submit every expense to the production imaginable. My favourite is, "I lost/broke my cell phone on this shoot so production needs to buy me a new one." My response to said crew member, "ok fine we'll buy you a new cell phone, then you can hand it back to me when the shoot is over." Crew member then has boggled look on his face. :blink:

 

You'll even have crew who want their pet babysitting bills paid for, that one always makes me laugh. I had a UPM demand a cottage for her entire family, all of whom would fly to location in first class air, plus....a nanny for her kids while she was working. After falling on the floor laughing, we hired a different UPM.

 

R,

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Don't forget the steak and lobster for dinner (crew will still moan and complain anyway), first class accommodations for everyone (crew will still say, my whirlpool only seats 8), equal pay for all crew as the director (even though the crew will work for 3 weeks and the director will be on the project for 3 years), limo transport from hotel to set for all crew (crew will still say, "Larry in G&E has a bigger limo than I do.) It goes on, and on, and on....

 

And don't forget every crew member attempting to submit every expense to the production imaginable. My favourite is, "I lost/broke my cell phone on this shoot so production needs to buy me a new one." My response to said crew member, "ok fine we'll buy you a new cell phone, then you can hand it back to me when the shoot is over." Crew member then has boggled look on his face. :blink:

 

R,

Oh, what about the whole "I want my money up front" then when you make money they want back end points after taking no risk whatsoever.

 

Edit: This might be more actors than crew however.

[Guest]

Oh, what about the whole "I want my money up front" then when you make money they want back end points after taking no risk whatsoever.

 

Edit: This might be more actors than crew however.

 

No it's the entire industry. Whad'ya mean I don't share in the back end like the producer?

 

R,

[Michael LaVoie]

If you learn animation and take voice lessons you won't have any pesky crew bothering you for pay or points at all for you will truly be a one man production. Producers dream eh? Look at Trey and Matt and Seth. They do it all including the voices. Well, with a pretty large team of animators now. but Matt and Trey are pretty vocal about their disdain for actors. With all of Family Guy's disparaging cutaways featuring actors I'm sure Seth is in the same school of thought on the matter though he has a pretty hilarious new live action feature being released soon.

 

Really though, I wouldn't belabor the point of how much set techs suck given that this forum seems predominately crew and not many people in production.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Michael LaVoie

[Guest]

Point is Michael, I worked for a TV network for five years. They had one simple philosophy....here's the job, show up and do it, don't like it.....quit. Guess what that's pretty much how every business in the world runs. Total number of times the company bought me lunch in five years....ZERO. You had to *gasp* pay for your own lunch with this thing they gave you called a "salary." They even made people pay for the gas for their cars they used to get to work! Can you imagine a film crew working under the same conditions? Perish the thought!!!!

 

R,

[Michael LaVoie]

It's not practical to break a film crew and have everyone leave set to get their own lunch. I'm sure you'd agree. You want to maximize your day and have lunch ready so people break and the A.D. notes the last man and then it's 30 or 45 till you're back in. There's no way you'd accomplish that if everyone left set for their own food. If everyone brought lunch how would that work? Where would it go? How would everyone bring food for a month and where would they put it? There's a reason why lunch is provided for films even though most outside the industry do find that crazy.

 

Truthfully, I keep a cooler in my car and have always brought my own lunches, salads and wraps and whatnot for the shorter projects cause the set food is typically pretty awful. lol. Mileage is something contractors should expense out. But I do believe in a stipend for overnight shoots. Sorry. I think it's warranted when crew have to leave town for your gig. Not a huge one but something to at least cover a second meal if it's not provided on set when the days go to 12/14 hours or so.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Really though, I wouldn't belabor the point of how much set techs suck given that this forum seems predominately crew and not many people in production.

Michael, I am only making funny generalizations. Truth is, I just recently cast the mains for my new film and out of 5, 4 of them are absolutely fantastic. We got the money and points issue out of the way quickly and they were cool with my first offer and seemed to care far more with what I expected of the role. As actors, they don't wank about prep work but choose to do it because they love their craft and they want to do the best they can for the role and their resume. I love them already and have much more respect for them than people who are always talking money. Truth is, I will do my utmost best to get this film exposure and if I sell it, I will totally take care of them. But right now we are making a film so let's keep it about that as much as possible.

[Guest]

Well Michael again....if you work for a corporation for example you get an hour lunch. People leave the building and they have to be back at work in one hour. The company doesn't want to hear, well I need extra time because I had to drive to Subway and the traffic was bad. This doesn't cut it in the real world. You leave and you come back on time, period.

 

R,

[Michael LaVoie]

Imagine being a 1st A.C. and eating most of your meals on location. Not by choice but by necessity. Flying from one set to another, month after month. You can only eat so many Subway subs or pizza before the mere thought of it makes you nauseous. As a producer or director who never works as crew, this is not something you'd ever really think about but try to imagine and realize there are lots of people who work all the time who need healthy nutritious food on set cause they eat it every day. If they have to eat horrible fast food for a month straight, that's just not a good idea at all. People work much better when they feel healthy and energized. I notice a big difference when there is good food vs bad in the attitude of the crew so it's in the best interest of the producer to have a really good caterer. It can make up for a lower rate even. But there's no just no practical way to accomplish that without a caterer. Not for a large film crew on location in a remote area.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Well Michael again....if you work for a corporation for example you get an hour lunch. People leave the building and they have to be back at work in one hour. The company doesn't want to hear, well I need extra time because I had to drive to Subway and the traffic was bad. This doesn't cut it in the real world. You leave and you come back on time, period.

 

R,

Heck, when I started working at 18, I worked fast food and the working conditions sucked bad. I got promoted to Shift Leader and had to sign a waiver that said, because I was "management" that I may not get a break at all. Even when I did, I only got half an hour. And Michael talks about being sick of Subway and Pizza? Imagine eating greasy burgers with your manager free meal everyday. Cry me a river, Michael. Not trying to be mean but you are sounding a bit like you are wanking.

[Stuart Brereton]

Well Michael again....if you work for a corporation for example you get an hour lunch. People leave the building and they have to be back at work in one hour. The company doesn't want to hear, well I need extra time because I had to drive to Subway and the traffic was bad. This doesn't cut it in the real world. You leave and you come back on time, period.

 

R,

The people you're describing generally don't work a 12-16 hr day, often in remote locations where there is no easy access to food. Film crews do. I understand a lot of what you are saying, but when I turn to up to set at 6.30am, having driven for an hour to get there, and there's no breakfast. I am pissed. And when, at lunch there is take out from El Pollo Loco, or some other fast food chain, that has been sitting for 40 minutes and was cooked 30 minutes before that, I am even more pissed, because I'm being forced to eat crappy food that I would never eat given the choice, and I am too far away from any source of decent food to be able to make it there and back in the 30 minutes I have for lunch.

 

There's nothing more calculated to annoy than being in the line for a shitty lunch, and noticing that the producers are nowhere to be seen, because they all left an hour ago to find some real food.

[Guest]

As a producer or director who never works as crew, this is not something you'd ever really think about but try to imagine and realize there are lots of people who work all the time who need healthy nutritious food on set cause they eat it every day.

 

Eh? I eat the exact same food as everyone else. Or are you saying producers and directors go a longer time between shoots and can afford to eat unhealthy food for a few weeks?

 

One thing I do insist upon is that my table be on an elevated riser, 6 inches above everyone else :D

 

R,

[Phil Rhodes]

Actually I take back what I said before.

 

Lack of funding probably doesn't make it impossible to make a feature film, it just makes it impossible to do it well, or responsibly.

 

Food matters. I've had good and bad. The best is when they have one of the location caterers come down and give them a reasonable budget, although I've had stuff where subway every day would have been a comparative pleasure, too.

 

P

[Michael LaVoie]

Heck, when I started working at 18, I worked fast food and the working conditions sucked bad. I got promoted to Shift Leader and had to sign a waiver that said, because I was "management" that I may not get a break at all. Even when I did, I only got half an hour. And Michael talks about being sick of Subway and Pizza? Imagine eating greasy burgers with your manager free meal everyday. Cry me a river, Michael. Not trying to be mean but you are sounding a bit like you are wanking.

I would encourage you not to take what I am saying personally. As I previously mentioned I often bring my own lunch because even when a set is catered, far away, it tends to be awful. My point simply is that professional crew who work on location all the time, will not be okay with subway or pizza because it would turn into a regular thing where that's all they ate every day if it were permitted by producers to provide that. I'm sure you'd agree that sucks. You just have to put yourself in their shoes and picture day after day of that. It'd be awful.

 

Also as mentioned, this is not in your best interest anyway to save money by going cheap with food. You want the crew to have energy and feel ready to work. Not running to the bathroom and doubling over in cramps half hour after lunch, as I've actually witnessed. I know it costs more and it's a damn difficult thing to accomplish outside of a major city but it's sooo worth it to make the extra effort. Not being a "wank". Trust me, your crew will really love you for the consideration you give this matter. Don't see it as a horrible burden but see it as an opportunity to show the crew your appreciation for the long hours and hard work. It'll pay off.

[Freya Black]

One thing I do insist upon is that my table be on an elevated riser, 6 inches above everyone else :D

 

R,

 

...but what about the chair??

 

[Freya Black]

The people you're describing generally don't work a 12-16 hr day, often in remote locations where there is no easy access to food. Film crews do.

 

Actually 12hr days are definitely not unusual in a lot of industries, certainly for the last 20 years or so.

They really suck when you are paid an annual salary but the worst is having to go into work on February the 29th!

Obviously 16hr days not so much.

 

Remote locations are less of a thing because everyone wants to avoid them, but in the movie industry people are more attracted to them for various reasons. :) Even then tho I've been turned down for jobs because I can't drive and the company was based on an industrial estate, just off a motorway junction, in the backside of nowhere. It's not that common however as most employers have thought that one through a bit more.

 

Freya

Edited May 20, 2014 by Freya Black

[Freya Black]

 

Eh? I eat the exact same food as everyone else. Or are you saying producers and directors go a longer time between shoots and can afford to eat unhealthy food for a few weeks?

 

I think you have a point there. I mean if you are working week in and week out on set and people keep serving you pizza or chips it could probably become something of a serious problem quite quickly and the problem is that as a producer you can't have control over what the other producers are doing, so the crew might already be a bit pissed off by the time they come to your set and they have had to eat crap for ages. Of course that might make them feel better when they start eating nicer food on your set.

 

Freya

[Michael LaVoie]

 

Eh? I eat the exact same food as everyone else. Or are you saying producers and directors go a longer time between shoots and can afford to eat unhealthy food for a few weeks?

 

One thing I do insist upon is that my table be on an elevated riser, 6 inches above everyone else :D

 

R,

I meant the latter. I've met a few really green directors over the years who didn't see a problem with fast food or pizza cause being on set is not a daily event for them. That's all I meant by that. I would venture to guess this is not a concern on larger sets like yours anyway. It's more for the microbudget sets where they would actually consider fast food over hiring a full time catering truck.

[Freya Black]

You'll even have crew who want their pet babysitting bills paid for, that one always makes me laugh. I had a UPM demand a cottage for her entire family, all of whom would fly to location in first class air, plus....a nanny for her kids while she was working. After falling on the floor laughing, we hired a different UPM.

 

R,

 

It's a free country and she is free to ask for what she wants, just as you are free to say no! I actually think this sort of thing is good because you realise that this person isn't the right person for your production and you find someone else and they might then find a job on Iron man 4 or something and then the Disney people will be really happy with her work and it's all good.

 

One thing that always surprises me is that people don't seem to have a very solid grip on the idea that there are different films with different budget levels. You know, they expect everything to be the same as on Iron Man 4, and if it isn't, they think there is something wrong with the production rather than realising that it isn't the right production for them or that it can't operate at that same level.

 

Freya