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[Phil Rhodes]

I try very hard to figure out what sort of show I'm talking to before I start mentioning figures or asking for specific things. It isn't very easy.

 

That said if I'm working for free it won't be for more than a few days, and I will want decent food (subway/pizza/whatever is fine, if just for a few days), travel expenses, and an agreement about working hours. I also ask for transportation to be provided for any of my gear that's being provided free. I don't feel that's unreasonable, but it does mean I don't actually shoot much anymore.

 

P

[Mark Dunn]

So when they find out that free isn't free, they pass you over for someone who's not only working for nothing, but actually paying for the privilege. Too bad.

[Phil Rhodes]

I had someone recently who said "You'd be a no-brainer if only you owned a C300."

 

And yes, yes, if I'd have given him a C300 for a month for free, I would really have been without a brain.

 

P

[Mark Dunn]

So about £2500 of hire for nothing. Hmm.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Mark Dunn

[Phil Rhodes]

Not to mention, well, me. And I'd have done it for minimum wage.

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Also as mentioned, this is not in your best interest anyway to save money by going cheap with food.

I agree with this. I don't "go cheap with food." My wife loves to cook so we do homecooked food for the set. Some people dig it and some actually seem disappointed that I didn't sport for Subway, whatever. I always ask people's (especially actors) food preferences and dietary restrictions before a project to try to avoid things people do not or cannot eat. I, personally, love me some home cooked pulled pork sandwiches with grilled onions and Sweet Baby Ray's BBQ sauce but I realize that a Muslim or a Jewish person may not appreciate that.

[Freya Black]

So when they find out that free isn't free, they pass you over for someone who's not only working for nothing, but actually paying for the privilege. Too bad.

 

Free is never actually free. Someone pays somewhere, it just isn't the person getting it for free.

 

Freya

[Guest]

I find that feeding film crews is straight forward, just remember the 4 food groups:

 

1) Meat

2) Meat

3) Meat

4) Meat.

 

R,

[Guest]

I would venture to guess this is not a concern on larger sets like yours anyway.

 

Which I arrive at on odd numbered days in my ferrari, and on even numbered days in my limo.

 

R,

[Michael LaVoie]

 

Which I arrive at on odd numbered days in my ferrari, and on even numbered days in my limo.

 

R,

At no point did I mean to suggest that you place yourself above anyone on your crew. My comment was to clarify that you likely don't encounter this sort of issue cause you are shooting films at a basic tier one/two scale with all the usual departments. Catering being a given. I wouldn't presume anything personal about your transport to and from set or other amenities. I doubt anyone else would either.

[Richard Prendergast]

Haha, this turned into an interested read. Hmm, where to start. Food seems like minor details in comparison to previous gigs. Usually everyone takes care of themselves. Everything that I need for a day including Camera, lenses, tripod, small dolly track or jib arm, lunch and water for 12 hours has to be carried by me. And usually in waste deep powder on a 1000m climb.

 

Thanks for the replies to the original post. I just want to clarify that I'm not intending to turn my back on actions sports . I'm currently directing a documentary for Sky Sports about a British snowboarder. The gig came through a UK company who focus a lot in actions sports. I've worked a lot for them over the last year and I'm loving the projects that they're involved with.

 

I own an FS700 with an Odyssey 7Q. I'm super stoked with the IQ that camera produces and so my non action based showreel is coming together (albeit a little slowly). However, what to do with the showreel once I'm done? Do I get an agent or diary service or something like that? This is what's all new to me. I have been in such a niche industry for the last ten years, it's kinda like learning a new language coming into the real film world.

 

Also, are things really that bad in the UK fellow East Anglian? I know we're not in LA but surely we have something to offer. I think it's worth a punt. After all, it was ten years ago I told people I wanted to make snowboard films. And back then everyone said that a 1000 other kids are out there trying to do the same thing, so why would they hire a guy from Norwich (of all places!). I'm not a millionaire or anything like that, but 10 years on and I'm still making a living out of it. I'd rather be a failed dreamer than mediocre realist.

[Richard Prendergast]

 

Take a page from fellow UK filmmaker Gareth Edwards (Godzilla) and get cracking!

 

R,

 

OK, I'll do just that :)

[Richard Prendergast]

If you're primary experience is camera operation, you might be missing the critical info on lighting and whatnot that comes with single camera narrative production on location. You can learn a whole lot just observing a production in action. Talk to the grips and see if you can pick up on what they'e doing and why. Film school is a potentially great way to learn how to DP and network with up and coming talented directors. In theory. Sometimes in practice film school is a waste. It's a roll of the dice cause it all depends on what you get in terms of faculty, colleagues and what you're hoping to get out of it as well as what you bring to it. But it's worth considering. When it comes to being a DP, it doesn't hurt to know a lot about the overall craft of filmmaking like screenwriting, directing, editing etc. That's where film school can give you an edge cause it's a broader sweep of knowledge than just working on set.

 

Michael, this is exactly my problem. I do lack production skills that come with being on a bigger sets. Most of my lighting experience (except talking head stuff and this -

) was gained at film school, so I really need to brush up a bit. But really my main problem is networking. I really don't know where to start.

[Phil Rhodes]

Looks like you've started pretty convincingly, to me!

 

Honestly, the likelihood of your being allowed to produce stuff that good outside the field you're currently in, here in the UK, is negligible. Nobody wants it.

 

P

[Richard Prendergast]

Looks like you've started pretty convincingly, to me!

 

Honestly, the likelihood of your being allowed to produce stuff that good outside the field you're currently in, here in the UK, is negligible. Nobody wants it.

 

P

 

But the UK has produced some outstanding films. I think the Kings Speech has to be my favourite. How does a film like that, for example, get funding? A part from the minor fact that Tom Hooper has a long track record.

[Phil Rhodes]

Yes, the UK has produced some outstanding films. About four, in the average year, none of which the likes of you and I will be getting anywhere near. Sadly, this is very much subject to the "there's always someone better" issue. Unless you're one of the top zero-point-one per cent of networkers and bullshitters, you're never going to be that person.

 

The underlying reason it's like this is that there's very low end stuff here, there's very high end stuff, and there's practically nothing in between. Moving up is therefore a matter of extreme good fortune, which the overwhelming majority of people can't reasonably expect to encounter.

 

I have written about this before: http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=62281 - sorry if it sounds harsh, but with any luck the truth will save a lot of wasted time.

 

P

[James Steven Beverly]

Haha, this turned into an interested read. Hmm, where to start. Food seems like minor details in comparison to previous gigs. Usually everyone takes care of themselves. Everything that I need for a day including Camera, lenses, tripod, small dolly track or jib arm, lunch and water for 12 hours has to be carried by me. And usually in waste deep powder on a 1000m climb.

 

Thanks for the replies to the original post. I just want to clarify that I'm not intending to turn my back on actions sports . I'm currently directing a documentary for Sky Sports about a British snowboarder. The gig came through a UK company who focus a lot in actions sports. I've worked a lot for them over the last year and I'm loving the projects that they're involved with.

 

I own an FS700 with an Odyssey 7Q. I'm super stoked with the IQ that camera produces and so my non action based showreel is coming together (albeit a little slowly). However, what to do with the showreel once I'm done? Do I get an agent or diary service or something like that? This is what's all new to me. I have been in such a niche industry for the last ten years, it's kinda like learning a new language coming into the real film world.

 

Also, are things really that bad in the UK fellow East Anglian? I know we're not in LA but surely we have something to offer. I think it's worth a punt. After all, it was ten years ago I told people I wanted to make snowboard films. And back then everyone said that a 1000 other kids are out there trying to do the same thing, so why would they hire a guy from Norwich (of all places!). I'm not a millionaire or anything like that, but 10 years on and I'm still making a living out of it. I'd rather be a failed dreamer than mediocre realist.

I'd say write something. Learn a little about screen writing and make up a story about something you know well, like say a snowboarder who gets lost in the mountains, gets injured and must make his way out or maybe a comedy about a snowboarding instructor who like to love them and leave them until he meets a girl who challenges him in ways he never thought possible. Use your reel as part of a film package and shop the package around to investors. Cannes is on now I think and I believe Berlin is coming up in the next few months. You may even be able to get some of your current distributors interested in such a project if they see there is money to be made. Give it a shot. You must have met some people over the last ten years with money they might be willing to invest with someone of your expirience, what have you got to loose, worst they can say is no.

[James Steven Beverly]

Michael, this is exactly my problem. I do lack production skills that come with being on a bigger sets. Most of my lighting experience (except talking head stuff and this -

) was gained at film school, so I really need to brush up a bit. But really my main problem is networking. I really don't know where to start.

 

I just watched Black Snow, it was terrific, very cinematic. It reminded me of a sci/fi movie with an 80s feel. Networking is nothing more than having the balls to talk to people. The fesitvals and film markets are a good place to start and the best way to start is just go up to people, introduce yourself and and ask them what they're doing at the festival. Chances are they'll ask you the samw thing and then you'll have a conversation and meet more people. You do that consistantly for two or three years and they'll get to know you and maybe introduce you to more people You look for people who know people who can help you. You find people who have money that want to be in the movie business in you travels. You stay in.touch, learn more and start to figure out who's real and who's full of it. They'll be a LOT of bull5hit artists but that's unimportant, you're looking for the people who are real. Once you have a core of good people you can trust and rely on, then you have something.

[Freya Black]

 

But the UK has produced some outstanding films. I think the Kings Speech has to be my favourite. How does a film like that, for example, get funding? A part from the minor fact that Tom Hooper has a long track record.

 

I think that is probably a really, really bad example. The Kings Speech had a budget of £8 million! This makes it one of the most expensive british movies in a very long time. I know that £1 million came from the film council but I'm not clear on where the other £7 million came from. I suspect it mostly came from a company called "Prescience" and that a little was kicked in by Momentum the UK distributor. Until recently most British movies have been made for less than £5 million and were often mostly made for TV stuff with the main exception being the occasional "working title" movie.

 

However this seems to have changed since 2012, possibly due to the new tax reigime and there are a few movies now being made for more like 20-25 million but obviously there aren't that many of them but a lot more than the 4 that Phil likes to suggest (he is over egging the pudding slightly). So it looks like things are changing.

 

Also there are presently a ton of US movies being shot here.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Meant to add this but forgot:

 

http://www.deadline.com/2011/01/the-uk-financier-behind-the-kings-speech/

 

Freya

[Phil Rhodes]

slightly

 

Okay, five.

 

In the few-hundred-thousand budget range that startup directors of photography need to do to build a production history and a reel, I suspect it isn't even four. Obviously, nobody's getting anywhere near a $25m feature, and the American stuff will bring people in (because Hollywood will not tolerate everything looking like a tedious, miserable Ken Loach drama about domestic violence in the home of an unemployed miner, and quite rightly so).

 

Richard, if you're directing documentaries for Sky, you're already a major success story. Why the lure of endless unpaid work in the forlorn hopes of becoming the next Roger Deakins appeals to you, I can't possibly fathom.

 

And to respond to something you said earlier:

 

 

 

Also, are things really that bad in the UK fellow East Anglian?

 

Yes.

 

 

 

I know we're not in LA but surely we have something to offer.

 

Lots. But we'll almost certainly never be allowed to. You may as well, as I've said several times on this forum, apply to be an astronaut. In the space program. That the UK doesn't have.

 

P

[Mark Dunn]

We do, of a sort. Tim Peake is an ESA astronaut and is due to fly to the ISS in 2015 or 16.

[Phil Rhodes]

And you're proposing astronaut as a reasonable career choice in that basis?

[Guest]

It's always interesting to listen to Phil's logic, and I don't dispute much of what he says about the UK film industry, etc.

 

However, consider that Canada is half the population of the UK, even smaller when you take out French Canada. Yet there are people here that work steadily in film, not a huge number but they are there in Vancouver and Toronto. Some work as service crews on the odd US movie that rolls in, others work on a few Canadian features many do Canadian TV.

 

R,

[Matthew W. Phillips]

Phil is an awesome chap who always helps when he can. But no one would ever mistake him for Pollyanna, that is for sure.