Which 16mm Camera is better?

[Guest FilmmakerJack]

I am currently deciding which 16mm camera I should purchase. I don't have much money, so that eliminates a lot of choices. I have about five hundred for the camera itself. As of right now I'm down to a Krasnogorsk-3 and a Canon Scoopic. I know they both have a lot of drawbacks. Right now the only question is which one has more drawbacks. Are there any posibilities I have other than renting?

[Josh Hill]

I would go with the Scoopic. If you get a scoopic MS you can get an adaptor (albeit kind of expensive) to use 400ft mags on it. Plus it isn't hand wound like the K3 is.

[Alberto Larios-Saavedra]

I am currently deciding which 16mm camera I should purchase.  I don't have much money, so that eliminates a lot of choices. I have about five hundred for the camera itself. As of right now I'm down to a Krasnogorsk-3 and a Canon Scoopic. I know they both have a lot of drawbacks. Right now the only question is which one has more drawbacks. Are there any posibilities I have other than renting?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Why not try a Bolex H16 (I saw one for sale in the L.A. Craigslist for $300). I know it's a risk, but you may be willing to give it a shot.

 

Good luck,

[Guest FilmmakerJack]

What would be the advantages and disadvantages of using a bolex instead of a scoopic?

[Tony Wilson]

I am currently deciding which 16mm camera I should purchase.  I don't have much money, so that eliminates a lot of choices. I have about five hundred for the camera itself. As of right now I'm down to a Krasnogorsk-3 and a Canon Scoopic. I know they both have a lot of drawbacks. Right now the only question is which one has more drawbacks. Are there any posibilities I have other than renting?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hay i wish i had some one to help me when i got suckerd in to buying

my first 16mm camera. (thanks ebay). Now pleas let a guy who has experrance

with stater cameras. Yes the Scopic is nice but thair are some draw backs

1. NO NEW PARTS!! so when,not if your camera brakes you you will be forced

to hunt down another broken camera too fix your broken down camera.

to me this would be my last choice.rember this

when on a movie set what can go wrong will go wrong.

2.you are limited to a fix focal lens trust me you will spend more time moving

the tripod then shoting.and forget if you scratch the lens.

Now i dont wont sound like i hate the scopic. Becaus i dont i love it

but ive come to under stand its limits.in L.A. the price of a scopic ms

is 600.1,100 per Alan gordon (L.A.) /Shelton communication (texas)

 

now about the K-3 this is my first choice. now i know some guys are shaking

thair head's and saying what the f@&%~ but let me point out the good and bad

About this camera, 1.you can still find this camera brand new! for 275.00 to 400.00

This is so important, becaus if look at all the cameras for sale on ebay the person,

selling it closing line will be "iam selling it becaus i have no time or money

to stay in the moving making buss; this is about 75% of the people who take this crazy bus ride. so why spend a grip of money and you donot know if you will be in it for the loung run ( i hope so).

box stock.And companys like NCS product (NY) can get you new parts

at drop of hat. you can even upgrad this to super 16mm for under 400.00 wow

As for the spring wound tobin cinema system as of 3/15/05 will be making thair .

Crystal motor for it .The best of all this camera is REFLEX VIEW.

not a split prizem theas typs of camer degrade your image

read Dougles Underhal book THE 16MM CAMERA BOOK.http://www.amazon.com/

Now the god the bad and the ugly.3 out of 10 cameras new from

the factory are junk f.u.b.a.r. did thay have vodka in the coke machine at the factory becaus ive seen brand new ones in the box not work.so if you pick up one

make sure it holds it lupe and try to test it be four you by it.OK man i will list

Afew camers that you can move up to later.

scopic ms/K-3/b&h filmo/ bolex rex5/cp16r/auricon any/sr1 dream on...

if you have any question you can e- mail me and ill call you if you want.

Edited May 1, 2005 by Tony (L.A.)

[LangISback]

Hi there,

 

I agree the Kras is a very good camera and it will be even better with the Tobin motor and a S16 conversion, though it will go way over $500.

 

I would sugest you take a look at the Beaulieu R16. I had one as my first 16mm camera and it was great!, reflex viewing, motorized, 2-64fps, 1 frame mode, c-mount, 100ft internal, 200ft magazines, some have internal exposure meter, etc.

 

Tough you need a well taken care one, it's not a very rough camera so you need one in good condition. It'll may go a bit over your budget, but It may worth it.

 

The bigest drwabacks for this camera are: no posible S16 conversion, no crystal sync available.

 

It will be good if you could tell us what exactly do you need the camera for so we can advice you on how to spend your $500 the best way.

 

Regards!

:rolleyes:

[Rik Andino]

What would be the advantages and disadvantages of using a bolex instead of a scoopic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Bolexes are more reliable than Scoopics

& there is also better service & repair available for Bolexes

 

Bolex's has the ability to use different lens...

Whilst the Canon Scoopic has a fixed lens on it.

 

The Bolex can run without batteries on a Spring-wound motor

Or with an electric motor attached to it

Whislt the Canon Scoopic can only run with batteries

 

The Canon Scoopic has alot of electronic components

So if they breakdown it's harder to fix

Than the Bolex which is all mechanical.

 

Generally Bolex are considered the best starter 16mm camera out there

But they're probably out of your budget range.

 

If I were you I'd go with the K3 for similar reasons that Tony explained.

 

Here's a list of MOS starter cameras I would look for

(from least expensive to highest)

 

K-3

Bell & Howell Filmo (or any other type of Bell&Howell 16mm camera)

Bolex

Beaulie R16

Arri 16S (or Arri 16Sb or Arri 16M)

 

 

Eitherways

Good Luck

[Guest thomas rasera]

just out of curiousity, what is that box on the bottom left picture of the K3? and also, where would one find that silver matte box for the K3? finally, where and how do you do the S16 conversion?

 

thanks

 

-oh, and where can i find more lenses for the K3?

thanks again

[Tony Wilson]

Thomas thanks for the replay

 

the silver box on the front is anamorphic adapter for the K3

you can find it for sale at owyheesound web site.

and if you go to ncs products you will find the super 16 kit for sale

see photos below any question e-mail me at awphoto67@yahoo,com

Edited May 1, 2005 by Tony (L.A.)

[Guest FilmmakerJack]

I need the camera to film a short. It's a silent film. Not completely silent, just no audio. I plan on doing all the foley and everything post. I thought about if I should crystal sync it etc. But quite honestly, I don't think I'll ever have the budget to film much dialogue anyway. This is why the scoopic appealed to me.

 

The K-3 appealed to me because of the price, but I"m a little worried because the reaction I always get from people is "just be sure a drunk didn't make your model." I've checked out some of the other cameras (bolex, beaulieu) but they are either out of my price range, or don't look easy to use.

 

I had heard the scoopic was good for beginners. But if you guys think the other models would be better for a beginner, maybe I should look into it more, especially since the scoopic seems to be at the bottom of most of your lists. haha

Edited May 1, 2005 by FilmmakerJack

[Nate Downes]

I considered many of the same cameras as you did, actually. I finally bought a K-3 and a Filmo. The Filmo is a gem of a camera, but the K-3 is definately the most versitile and easier to work with. I was so impressed with my K-3 that I got a second one. 8) When the Crystal motor comes out, I'm modifying one of mine for it, but keeping the other on the spring-drive. Definately an ideal beginners camera in my opinion.

[Nguyen D. Nguyen]

I need the camera to film a short. It's a silent film. Not completely silent, just no audio. I plan on doing all the foley and everything post. I thought about if I should crystal sync it etc. But quite honestly, I don't think I'll ever have the budget to film much dialogue anyway. This is why the scoopic appealed to me.

 

The K-3 appealed to me because of the price, but I"m a little worried because the reaction I always get from people is "just be sure a drunk didn't make your model." I've checked out some of the other cameras (bolex, beaulieu) but they are either out of my price range, or don't look easy to use.

 

I had heard the scoopic was good for beginners. But if you guys think the other models would be better for a beginner, maybe I should look into it more, especially since the scoopic seems to be at the bottom of most of your lists. haha

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you know of someone, maybe you can find a way to rent the camera from them for either a discount, or, if they're good friends, for free?

[Guest FilmmakerJack]

I've decided to go with the K-3. Any idea where I can find a good package for a decent price?

[Tony Wilson]

I've decided to go with the K-3. Any idea where I can find a good package for a decent price?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes if you go to this web site the matrix will be open to you,

but you must go now! http--www.k3camera.com-images-ncshead.gif

[Guest FilmmakerJack]

The camera's on the website seem to be almost one thousand dollars. Am I looking at the wrong K-3's? What happened to the brand new ones that were 250-400?

[andrewbuchanan]

I don't know why the K3 gets a bad rep. I used them in film school, I have several friends who own them, and I own one myself... I have never seen/heard of/been privy to any one (first hand) that knew what they were doing and had problems with the K3. I suspect most "problems" with it are from people who have no clue what they are doing trying to shoot film, and being disappointed with the results or not practicing loading the camera many times before they shoot with it.

 

I got one direct from Ukraine for $175 new. Sure, the finish looks a little like it got dropped down some stairs, but the camera runs flawlessly. It has never jammed (in over 100 loads). The image is quite steady - okay, I might not use the camera for animation - but its very good. I have a Nikkon mount and a super 16 gate (self installed) and the Peleng 8mm all for under $500. I use it as a B-camera with a pin registered S16 and no one ever seems to notice the difference (for telecine).

 

The camera is new, so simple there is little to break or damage, and can be self-maintained in most cases. There are great m42 lenses out there. I had planned to order an electric motor for mine when I got it... and never saw the need. Compare this to a 25 year old camera with a fixed lens and no S16 capibility that is more expensive? Sign me up for the K3 Army.

 

I might consider a Bolex, but you will pay more for one in decent shape... and those Switars ain't cheap either.

 

Get a K3 for a reputable dealer off ebay and get a Peleng 8mm too, you will not regret your purchase.

[Tony Wilson]

The camera's on the website seem to be almost one thousand dollars. Am I looking at the wrong K-3's? What happened to the brand new ones that were 250-400?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry abuot that try this one. ON EBAY Item number: 7512088868

just type in this number. This guy sells K-3 all the time on ebay

he also has his contact info, listed. He brings them in from the motherland

or type in k-3 camera and it will pop up.i must go now an agent is at my door!

[Guest robtags]

I got one direct from Ukraine for $175 new.  Sure, the finish looks a little like it got dropped down some stairs, but the camera runs flawlessly.  It has never jammed (in over 100 loads).  The image is quite steady - okay, I might not use the camera for animation - but its very good.  I have a Nikkon mount and a super 16 gate (self installed) and the Peleng 8mm all for under $500.  I use it as a B-camera with a pin registered S16 and no one ever seems to notice the difference (for telecine).

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

where did you order it from?

[Robert Hughes]

You can get a Filmo 70-DR or -HL off the web for anywhere from thirty to three hundred dollars depending on accessories. They are cheap, almost indestructable, and take good steady pictures. With a trio of decent prime lenses you have the perfect MOS shooter.

[andrewbuchanan]

where did you order it from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I don't remember exactly. Just find a seller with a lot of positive feedback and a lot of sales... Paypal is VERY good to use too. Western Union lost a MO of mine in the Ukraine and it took them like 2 months to find it! The seller was not happy I was not happy and Western Union was... well... very confused, rude, and mind-numbingly helpless. I would avoid those guys if at all possible. You can find good ones in the states for around $225 if you don't mind spending a little extra.

 

The NCS battery adapter is a good addition too, I have found the K3's meter to be very good when used with a gray card (some people have had different experiences, but it works great for me)

[Nate Downes]

Nikon mount? Cool. I have one with the K-3 bayonet and one with the M42. if I could find someone willing to modify my bayonet to take a Nikon or Minolta mount, and modify the bayonet lens to then work with the camera, I'd go for it.

[Guest BJXN]

http://www.kievusa.com/

but their price is $725.00

also NCS products in NY

[lluis]

With all my respects I condider Scoopics M or MS are much better and reliable than any K3 in all parameters, specially in the quality of the lens (Canon has macro and wideangle), auto loading and steadiness (K3 don't have lateral pressure and the pictures always jitter...). Probably in the MOS categories (after Arri st) Bolex EL would be the best, anyway that the Scoopic viewfinder is brighter.

K3 is the only Arri system mirror movie camera on the world which stop suddenly the movement when you cut off (all the others have the natural inercie...), because it tries to make animation... Consequence: with the very early age the main axis of the mirror begin to play...

All the best.

[Philippe Lignieres]

Thomas thanks for the replay

 

the silver box on the front is anamorphic adapter for the K3

you can find it for sale at owyheesound web site.

and if you go to ncs products you will find the super 16 kit for sale

see photos below any question e-mail me at awphoto67@yahoo,com

Do you know what is this 11mm lens ?

http://www.owyheesound.com/owyheesound_ins...ogorsk_k-3.html

It is M42 I suppose ?

Hard to find, I think.

[Clive Tobin]

I agree the Kras is a very good camera and it will be even better with the Tobin motor...

 

Sorry, the crystal motors for the Krasnogorsk are discontinued and we have none left in factory stock.

 

You might check with Kiev USA and Du-All Camera who may still have something.