I wanna be like you

Danni_J · March 18, 2004

Hi!

I'm a senior in high school. I live in southern California and I want to be a cinematographer.

I read that it requires a bachelor's degree, is that right? What schools offer the most to someone who wants to go into this typr of field? I've considered the L.A. School of film and the New York Film Academy, but where did you guys go?

Is it wise to go into this type of field if I don't come from a wealthy family, imean, will it be like a starving musician type of thing? Do cinematographers make good money?

Is it hard to be a cinematographer for a movie or T.V. show? Do most cinematographers do school and student films?

What should I know about this career? Please share all of your knowledge and advice with me, I really neeeeed it. thanks

(feel free to email me if you'd like)

~Danielle

Phil Rhodes · March 18, 2004

Hi,

> read that it requires a bachelor's degree, is that right?

Wellll... not actually. Jobs, particularly high-end jobs, or even medium end jobs, or in fact most of the jobs I do which are certainly rather low in their endishness, aren't allocated on exam results - it's about who you know, and what your experience is. This makes it very difficult to find work.

However, I'd hazard a guess that most of the people doing it would tend to be educated to that sort of level, in some kind of vaguely related field. Obviously if you can afford to go to a film school, whoopee.

> will it be like a starving musician type of thing?

Yep.

> make good money?

Can do, but very hard to do so at first. Perhaps hard to do so for many years or decades.

> Is it hard to be a cinematographer for a movie or T.V. show?

Define movie. If by "movie" you mean the next X-men movie, then yes, very hard. If by TV show you mean ER or Buffy the Vampire Slayer, then yes, very hard.

Crappy film school short films and existential experimental wierdness? Easy as pie, but they rarely pay above breadline wages.

However, it sounds like you're resident in the US, so you do at least have a shot at the big time. Others will be more specific.

Phil

March 20, 2004

The better school you'll go to, the better you do in that school, the more creative you are, the more interest you have in the subject, the better stuff you create in your major, the better chance you'll have to make good money in this field. You must like film and hang around artists and filmmakers. And in Hollywood it is more important who you know than what you know.

Leon Rodriguez · March 21, 2004

Danielle, I would emphasize that the main thing that will stay with you and carry you through is your passion for motion pictures. Find like-minded students like yourself . This is your immediate film community and your potential collaborators. This important step is an investment in the support needed to feed your passion. Film is a collaborative art. You are in the right area to have a great career. (near Hollywood) Get a subscription to American Cinematographer and read everything you can get your hands on regarding cinematography. Create projects with your collaborators. Shoot them. Repeat.

Danni_J · March 23, 2004

Hey thanks you guys, for the honest replies. They help so much.Yeah, I figured it would be a who ya know not what ya know type of thing. I'm kind of shy, but I can be more friendly and get to know more people. And I'm also gonna check out American Cinematographer, get a subscription. My community college where I live has a good film program I'm looking forward to learning some of the basics there before I go on. Now, I can't afford it but I wanted to find a way to get into the NY Film Academy. But should I even bother? or is it wiser to just move to Hollywood get to know everyone I can and create projects like crazy instead? That's what I'd rather do anyway and by the sound of things it would work to my advantage that way. I've also read that doing volunteer work at firt is a good way to get experience and get to know more people at the same time.

Michael Nash · April 1, 2004

My community college where I live has a good film program I'm looking forward to learning some of the basics there before I go on.

But should I even bother? or is it wiser to just move to Hollywood get to know everyone I can and create projects like crazy instead? That's what I'd rather do anyway and by the sound of things it would work to my advantage that way.

It is very much a people-oriented industry, but that just means that at some point YOU have to offer something to others -- in terms of knowledge and ability. If you're just graduating high school, chances are you still have a lot to learn. Don't shortchange yourself the education for the sake of making contacts.

Film school is a good place to learn, but you can also self-educate yourself to great degree. The most important thing is to put yourself in an environement where you're surrounded (and supported) by people and resources that help you practice and learn. That could mean film school, a film camp, a club or organization, or simply finding entry-level work in the industry. I guess what I'm saying is you need the education (both academic and hands-on) AND the contacts.

Be prepared to spend years developing your knowledge, skill, and connections.

Marty Hamrick · April 1, 2004

I second what the others are saying in that you're in the right area.Also,education AND contacts will be what you need.The only advice I can add is to get a secondary skill that you can make money with so you won't starve in between gigs.One of the most prolific cinematographer/gaffers I know is also one hell of a craftsman in other technical fields.

Marty

Adam Frisch FSF · April 5, 2004

I don't want to discourage you, but this is a really cut-throat business

and not for the faint of heart. I've been working since 1996 and I still am

not making a decent living off it. It's very competitive and very dishearting

at times - out of every 10 projects your up for, perhaps 1 gets made. At

best. Yet you still have to plan as if all are going to happen.

So stamina just isn't what's required. You need to love it, otherwise

you'll never last the course. I can not do anything else, this is my

passion, so I'm sticking with it. But it's a poor career choice if you're

in it for a quick buck.

But if you love it, go for it.

Danni_J · April 6, 2004

Thanks guys, good advice

^_^

~Danielle

Pepe Peralta · May 4, 2004

Hi Danielle, here a few options that could lead you to try to go baby steps to your goal: Try to join or participate in a University Film Club or group you may be interested on, they usually shoot more often that any other groups, maybe not professionally but you´ll gather experience, and some of their projects could really be interesting. Read and watch films, try to experiment styles you lik with stills, Photography and Cinematography are really close cousins, and never surrender. It will be hard? Yes, You´ll make mistakes? YES, but the feeling of getting the film ready is worth everything. Go and take it!!!

Pepe

Phil Rhodes · May 5, 2004

Hi,

Something I managed to overlook is the sexist but generally unavoidable fact that being female will help a lot. Being unusual for any reason is good since it helps people remember you; women are underrepresented in the camera tradea.

Phil

Jayson Crothers · May 6, 2004

Phil~

I think I have to disagree; being a woman is unfortunately a hindrance; this is regrettably a boys club by far and large, and while it's utter BS, it's a reality not to be overlooked. My close friend (who's a truly talented cinematographer) is often fighting for work because she's a woman; two weeks ago a producer actually asked her if she could operate the camera because of how small she is (I believe the actual quote was "Are you strong enough to carry one of those cameras? They're pretty big...")

That's not to say it's impossible, nor should that dissuade you; my Key Grip is a woman and she's often turning down work because she's very much in demand, as is my 1st AC - just be aware that being a woman will bring new obstacles that shouldn't be, but are.

John Atala · May 31, 2004

hey dani.

im a DP here in Brazil for about 5 years now, and lemme tell ya. a BA will not get you anywhere. Well, sure, it might earn you a decent living and then possibly retire in florida and die. If you wanna make it big you have got to know the ropes and know the right people. period. your art form is yours, and yours only. Film isnt collective, film is passionate, and extremeley personal. perhaps the most personal thing ever. be yourself and speak up. and no, YOU WILL NOT MAKE MISTAKES. you are perfect. expression is the goal. not your B.A.

Phil Rhodes · May 31, 2004

Hi,

I'm increasingly cautious about all this happy bollocks concerning art and feeling. Sure, it's an artistic job, but I find that most of my clients have a very low tolerance for things that are "passionate and extremely personal." It's great while you're in college and you sit around having these kinds of conversations with your pals, but at some point it's got to pay the rent. Frankly I find that the only goal is to get to a point where your ability to light a shot actually starts to matter, because believe me, in the first few years, it doesn't.

Phil

Eric Steelberg ASC · June 1, 2004

Phil's right. The goal is ultimately be able to make a living doing what you love. I chose against film school because I was already doing fine getting work in the industry by myslef and figured I'd save money by skipping that step. I worked on everything for anything while I maintained a day job until I was able to get an agent and work regularly enough to make a living. To say it's competitive is an understatement. You need to be the person people want to call first and the best way to do that is be energetic and work on as many sets as possible. If you want to go to film school that's fine, I have friends who did. But I think the fastest, and in my opinion best, way to get into the camera department is to hang out on sets as much as possible during your free time when at college and offer to help and work hard. Don't worry about being a woman. A strong personality is better than a strong physique.

You should try getting in touch with DPs and camera assistants to see if you could start visiting some sets. These forums would be a good place to start if you don't have any connections.

ben nelson · June 9, 2004

a lot has been said and i agree with most of it, but i think that what might also help is if you took some photography classes, maybe a class in 2-d design so that you learn about composition. with photography, you learn various aspects of light and how it interacts with film.

i went to art school, did some PA work, and then AC'd for a while to get to learn the equipment. i found that the most important thing is to learn how to light. who knows, by the time you start working you might be working in HD, but if u can light, it doesnt matter what the medium is.

its a bit rambly, but i hope it helps.

June 11, 2004

Hi,

I quite agree with most of the things said here.

we all do wish that there was a formula, you do that, this and this and you're there. But that never works in this field. But coming in just for a good buck is really not a good idea, i think the passion got to be there and then "you can make money doing what you love". Educating your self is important but you got to pick your own way of doing it.

I think i am just repeating things already said

bye for now and all the best

Harmeet