535 or BL4

Cris Moris · May 1, 2005

Hey everyone,

Its been a while since I've posted anything but I need some advice. I've been asked to shoot my first feature. Both on 35mm and 16mm. I have some questions regarding equipment and stock.

Its a straight to video job and will probably never go back to film. I'm thinking 1.85 for aspect ratio. I want to shoot with all Arri cameras. I'm not sure if I should go with a 535 or a BL4. Its a thriller that takes place in two different time periods. The director wants to shoot the past in 16 and the present in 35. I tried to convince them to shoot the whole thing in 35 but its actually not an asthetic decesion but monetary. So I think super16 at 1.85 also.

Ideally the S16 stuff will be shot on an sr3 or sr2.

One question I have is about lenses, I want fast lenses because being low budget I doubt we'll have a genie and I think our biggest light will be a 1.2k. Its one location si the posibilty of tying in is there but I'm trying to not to get to crazy with equipment.

Then there is the question of stock. I want to shoot 18 for everything and rate at 320. Maybe shoot the past on a less rich stock, but again I think this can be achieved with filtration.

I know this is all very vague but I would like to hear some general comments about this. Keep in mind its my first big job so I'm a bit overwhelmed.

any comments/suggestions are apreciated.

thanks

Cris

Adam Frisch FSF · May 1, 2005

Well, if they aim is to save money then go with an older BL4s. Good cameras that are comparable to the 535 in weight and user-friendliness. Doubt there will be many around who can do 3-perf (except the BL4 Evolution, but not many have made the conversion) if that's they way you want to go, so in that case go for a 535.

Shoot super-35 to maximize the neg.

I would NOT rate the stock at 320 if you're going straight to video. That stop is useful to have with the limited lighting package and will offset any non-percievable grain benefits by over-exposing.

Shoot with Zeiss's Super Speed T1.3 lenses - they're cheap to rent and will get you out of a jam with their fast speed at times. They also have a nice dream-like softness wide open if you like that look (AC's going to kill you, though).

Try to get one of those red Honda 2000w suitcase genny's - they're brilliant. Very portable, very quiet and can run a 1.2kW and a couple of Kino's which goes a long way if you stretch it. I've shot night scenes with nothing else.

Find the cheapest 500 speed stock you can get - nobody can tell in telecine anyway.

David Mullen ASC · May 2, 2005

Sometimes it's cheaper to shoot everything on one camera / format rather than carry a separate Super-16 camera package just to save money on stock for the period scenes, unless aren't shooting both period and present scenes at the same time, but can return one package and pick-up the second because you're shooting all the present or past scenes first.

Plus simpler is always better, so why deal with two sets of camera packages, two sets of film stock inventory, etc.

I'd go with the Arri-BL4S (to save money) unless you need to often shoot crystal-sync slo-mo (up to 60 fps) and don't want to carry a second camera just for slo-mo shots -- in that case, I'd get the Arri-535B.

I also second Adam's advice about getting Zeiss Super-Speeds. They are cheaper than modern Cooke S4's, etc., look plenty sharp for telecine work, and the speed may save you now & then (otherwise, I'd stop down to at least an f/2.0-2.8 split on those because the sharpness does fall off at stops wider than f/2.0.)

I also agree that overexposing 500 ASA film to 320 ASA is not necessary when you are transferring from neg to tape. I'd probably use 400 ASA just as a mild safety net against some accidental underexposure (rather than as a way of achieving a dense negative) because overexposure is more of a benefit to printing.

Another option, to save money, is just to shoot the whole thing on Super-16, if this is just for video transfer.

Frank Barrera · May 2, 2005

ooh yes. if we want to be "low budget creative": shoot it all on S16 with 7218 (both indoor and outdoor) and just light and shoot the flash backs with a different style than the present. Or push the "past" material two stops (this would also speed up lighting these sections.) With the money you save on not shooting 35 you can hire some lighting guys and rent some proper lights for a couple of days.

just thinking...

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Adam Frisch FSF · May 2, 2005

That's actually an interesting question:

16mm and money for lights, or 35mm and no lights?

I'd go for 35mm anytime and just use bounce, negative fill and homemade lamps and practicals. What would you do?

Josh Hill · May 2, 2005

I would go with S16. I'm a big fan of the format anyway, and I think having some money for lights and a little more film to run through the camera outweighs the awesomeness of 35mm.

oscar jimenez · May 5, 2005

Just one question:

If it is going straight x video xnsfer, why would you shoot in sup 16 mask?

or even sup 35mm? I dont get it. And shooting on 16mm, it seems film lasts a lifetime on each mag. And can use ultraprimes to have a better image quality. It's faster to move or change, But again, that's just my 10 cents.

Cheers.

Adam Frisch FSF · May 5, 2005

?

Super 35 offers a much larger negative and is sharper. And you don't save any film by shooting normal 35, so why not use the extra sharpness?

John Pytlak RIP · May 6, 2005

?

Super 35 offers a much larger negative and is sharper. And you don't save any film by shooting normal 35, so why not use the extra sharpness?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Super-35 adds no cost if the negative is scanned for video or DI. But "Regular-35" on the "Academy" centerline has the advantage that 35mm prints with optical sound can be made by simple contact printing, with no need to reposition and resize the image with optical printing or a DI. If you use 3-perf for Super-35, you use 25% less stock.

Rolfe Klement · May 6, 2005

As much as I love 35 - why not shoot the whole thing on S16 - there is a huge amount that can be done in S16 - especially if the output is Video (even HD)

As much as I love Arri (I have one of their cameras) I have noticed some really good deals on Aaton's - both in 35 and S16

I know how tempting it is to work on 35 and throw financial caution to the wind. B)

thanks

R