Is a Sony F3 worthwhile buying in 2015??

David Peterson · July 7, 2015

To an extent I agree with you, that electronics has been getting much cheaper. In a way that other areas haven't.

However, I believe you're overlooking one key aspect.... which is where I'll disagree with you.

And that is one key big change since 2000 (to pick the year you gave, as an example) vs today."

That change is now we've got vastly more people people buying gear and making films than in the past (thanks to first the digital revolution, and then the DSLR revolution).

For an extremely niche area this can have a huge impact (which a few decades ago is what *all* cine gear is). As extremely niche product which only have a super tiny number of possible sales, they need to have a very high price to cover the fixed costs over only a very small number of sales.

This changes drastically once the market is ten times, hundred times, and even tens of thousands of times bigger than what the market size was beforehand. Prices would drop dramatically.

Also (if that above factor wasn't big enough) you've got the rise of China's production capability, not just costs coming down but quality going up too. China didn't have this level of production capabilities a couple of decades ago.

In short these are reasons why I do believe there are good value opportunities out there to be found :)

Edited July 7, 2015 by David Peterson

Phil Rhodes · July 7, 2015

Oh, there absolutely are. The performance of even quite run-of-the-mill lenses is now pretty decent. I'd love to shoot Samyang off against Schneider one of these days...

It's important, as well, to factor in relative cost increase with respect to quality increase. You can pay five times more to get five per cent more objectively measurable quality, sometimes.

Even so, if you paid say £1k for the camera and you're thinking that £2k for a tripod is a lot - it really isn't.

P

Albion Hockney · July 7, 2015

I would just rent that stuff till you can buy the good stuff. I have never used knock of brands like "shot 35" ...assuming made in china?

It might be ok? but there is a reason there is kinda "industry standard" brands I have learned that over the years being on sets with the crappy stuff.

Again, just be careful and If the item is something you don't need every time you go out or you are really getting something cheap I would just rent it for now.

Adrian Sierkowski · July 7, 2015

You should never ever cheap and go off of brand with accessories; says me. It will only lead to massive annoyance as things break, don't fit well, aren't well made, and perhaps even dump your new camera and lens on the ground when a piece shears off.

Hell even Manfrotto stuff I use on occasion breaks when we bring it out. Conversely the only problem with my O'connor 50D Head, which is probably older than I am is that is has a slow grease leak (which I'll eventually fix).

Even your follow focus, something which you'll certainly need may let you down if it gets slop in it's gears over the years.

Satsuki Murashige · July 7, 2015

I believe Shoot35 is a UK company. I've used their stuff before and it's pretty decent given the price, similar to Redrock Micro. You could definitely do a lot worse. But yes, $2k for sticks is nothing when, as Phil says, a good set will last you decades. You'll be on the BlackMagic SuperDuper 12K Pocket Wizard camera by then, but still using the same sticks. That's one thing I would not go cheap on.

A good tripod improves your operating immensely. Or to put it another way, it lets you do your job to the best of your ability by simply getting out of your way. You'll lose so many shots for doc-style work or interviews just unlocking the tilt and trying to do a smooth move to adjust headroom that you'll find it's a poor value in the end. The unusable footage will cost you way more than you're saving in initial layout.

David Peterson · July 8, 2015

I've used the tripods which cost next to nothing, or fifty bucks, or a couple of hundred dollars, or thousands and thousands of dollars.

My current one cost a couple of hundred (picked after much research, as the best in its price class). Do I have any safety worries with mine? Not at all. Has it got the job done for me so far? Yup. (but only has a max load capacity of under 6kg)

Do I think one costing thousands and thousands is nicer? Sure. But how much better? Only somewhat (and for locked off shots, practically zero difference), not 10x+ better! No way. Hell no.

Diminishing returns is a very real factor for me that I'm conscious of (and the critical point of diminishing returns will kick in at different points for different people). Thus why I'm looking for a heavier duty tripod in the $500 to $1500 range.

Another very big aspect which is being overlooked is lost opportunity cost. If (because of extravagantly buying a tripod) I miss out getting a second set of wireless mics, or don't get my own gimbal, or can't complete my lens set, or can't upgrade my vehicle to a stationwagon/van, or can't get the lighting kit that I need, or.. (the list can go on and on!) then that is a very real loss, vs a marginal improvement in having a better tripod that has cost me thousands and thousands.

Edited July 8, 2015 by David Peterson

Phil Rhodes · July 8, 2015

I don't think you've got too much to worry about, you can make a reasonable tripod investment for $1500. That's a bit more than I paid for my Vinten in 2001.

P

David Peterson · July 16, 2015

Is there more than one standard for these dovetails??? :-/ I had guessed there was only the Arri standard dovetail.

As I ordered this (which is Arri standard):

http://www.proaimshop.com/pas/CAMTREE-19-15mm-Base-Plate-With-Dovetail-Tripod-Plate-ARRi-Standard.html

The camera came with a baseplate and dovetail, TILTA LSW baseplate. And this CAMTREE dovetail won't match with it.

Phil Rhodes · July 16, 2015

Is there more than one standard for these dovetails?

Standards are brilliant, that's why we like to have so many different ones.

I like to get down to something that's compatible with a Sony VCT-14U quick-release. They're possibly a bit inadequate for the very largest outfits, but it's a super-convenient way to quickly get cameras on and off bits of grip equipment, or to switch between them. It's about as close to a standard as you'll get and they're adequate for most F3 outfits.

P

David Peterson · July 16, 2015

The TILTA LSW baseplate which I have currently is absolutely brilliant, so I'd like to stick with that (plus getting a different baseplate would be more costly than finding the appropriate dovetail). Just it obvious I was wrong in picking out the right dovetail, and need to find one now which does match with it.

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You can see here a pic of my camera with the dovetail and baseplate which it came with, I want a second dovetail! (one for the monopod, one for the tripod)

Edited July 16, 2015 by David Peterson

David Peterson · July 16, 2015

I can't seem to find online the specific "TILTA LSW Baseplate" which I own (that is the words on the side of it).

Guessing it is a bit older model which is not being sold anywhere.
As far as I can tell by looking over Tilta's current products they make two kinds of dovetails:

Arri standard and Sony VCT-U14.

Unless... is "Lightweight Standard" a third standard for dovetails? I'm unfortunately suspecting it is!

Although that doesn't make sense:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/992650-REG/ikan_tt_c07_12_2060_2575_120ex_dovetail_plate.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/992649-REG/ikan_tt_c16_10_lightweight_dovetail_plate.html

They're both called "lightweight", yet the 1st one doesn't work with mine (I know as I have an "Arri Standard" dovetail which doesn't work, unless... "Lightweight Arri Standard" is something specific and different to "Arri Standard". While the second one looks like it is identical to the one which came with my camera, and is what I'm seeking a second one of)

Is Tilta with their 15mm baseplates using their own made up "standard"??

Edited July 16, 2015 by David Peterson