Lets talk Gobo's! :)

[Phil Rhodes]

Again, I've been saying it for years.

 

The UK suffers a particularly toxic combination of:

 

- Practically no indigenous film industry, and

- A popular perception that one exists.

 

This causes lots of wide-eyed hopefuls to spend a lot of money on education, equipment and training. People who promote this are being grossly irresponsible.

 

P

[Miguel Angel]

Phil,

 

Actually if you go to any of the camera rental houses that I have put down and ask for an internship at the camera rental house it is highly likely that you will get it.

 

As to how to move out of the camera rental house, that's something that you'll get if you really really want to work in the industry, some might not after some months of knowing how the business is.

 

I know, at least, two Spanish cinematographers who are doing pretty well in the UK, one is Edu Grau, the other one is Sergio Delgado.

 

Have a good day!

[Phil Rhodes]

Actually if you go to any of the camera rental houses that I have put down and ask for an internship at the camera rental house it is highly likely that you will get it.

 

Er - no, it isn't. That's complete piffle. I was speaking to someone from - to spare their blushes - a medium-sized part of the UK film industry at IBC last weekend and they said they'd stopped doing internships because they were:

 

- Worried about legality, minimum wage legislation, and the like

- Fed up with babysitting idiots, and

- Had no time for administrating such an enormous waiting list.

 

All of which is entirely reasonable and exactly what I expected to hear.

 

Let's say there are as twice as many people looking for work as there are in the LPD camera branch (there aren't, there's many times more, but let's be charitable). Let's say any given business is open 50 weeks a year and there are five eight-hour days per week, for a total of 2000 working hours per year.

 

If everyone calls, said notional company will be receiving a call roughly every fifty minutes. It's absolutely absurd. Of course that isn't practical. Of course that can't possibly work. Of course they will get pissed off.

 

If you call any part of a large production or facilities company in the UK, you won't even get past the telephone receptionist, who will have been briefed to deflect you. Wannabes haven't got a cat's chance in hell. Don't waste your time.

 

P

[Miguel Angel]

I am not going to disagree with you on that Phil because I don't live in the UK .

 

What I do know is that Panavision takes interns all around the globe, the UK branch is no exception and when I was there preparing a movie 5 years ago there were a couple of interns helping out so hopefully that has not changed.

 

Panavision in Ireland takes interns too and also Vast Valley or 24/7 Drama (as well as the UK Branches of the companies)

 

What you have to do is go to the rental place directly and ask for an interview or a meeting, a phone call won't get you anywhere.

 

On the other hand, if you really want to make a living in the industry.. be an electrician / spark, they work a lot, there are not too many of them and it is very well rewarded.

 

Have a good day!

[Phil Rhodes]

What you have to do is go to the rental place directly... Panavision

 

What, you just walk in?

 

This is one of those things where you already have to know them, isn't it? And you won't know Panavision unless your diet is 100% enormous American movies, in which case you're way beyond needing to be an intern.

 

It's actually worth expanding on this a bit. I should admit that I have never spoken to Panavision nor any company associated with them because in the UK they exist to service huge American movies and not much else. I honestly have no idea how they make it a functioning business, unless the two big Hollywood shows a year end up giving them several million each, which I suppose is entirely plausible. Panavision generally won't even pick up the phone for anything but the biggest shows, and the idea that they're going to talk to a completely inexperienced wannabe is completely ridiculous.

 

 

if you really want to make a living in the industry.. be an electrician / spark, they work a lot, there are not too many of them and it is very well rewarded.

 

I can't imagine why. When I worked more frequently on productions big enough to have electricians, I could not have been less impressed. Grips are taciturn, but 75% plus of the electricians I've met were completely unhelpful and borderline incompetent, barely being willing to bother knocking in an earth stake for a generator, for instance, leaving me grounding the entire shoot through the screen of a 75-ohm video cable.

 

P

[Freya Black]

I have to say that I meet a lot of young graduates and the like at industry shows who are looking around for internships and have already tried the major rental houses like Panavision and Procam and been turned away. There is a lot of demand for this kind of thing.

 

In any case my thread seems to have taken a really negative turn which I think is a shame because I really appreciated all the stuff people posted for me about Gobo Arms and C-stands etc etc. Thanks to everyone who posted about that stuff.

 

I'm actually very enthusiastic and happy because I'm finally going to get to play with a load of fresnel lights. In fact I've ended up with about 5 now which is kind of mind blowing. I love working on the stuff I do get to do even if it is low budget stuff and now I'm really happy to be taking things to the next level with my new lights!

 

To answer the question as best I can. I don't know why I'm not working at the BBC at this point. It's just the way my life has turned out I guess.

 

Freya

[JD Hartman]

Freya are the fixtures complete? Barndoors, scrims, TVMP and wired with switches and cords or just with a fixture whip and stagepin connector?

 

Hey! Let's talk gobos (again)!

[Miguel Angel]

My apologies for "highjacking" the thread Freya.

 

I replied originally to let you know that if you were looking for opportunities, there are some out there, even in the BBC.

If you want to buy super cheap small fresnels or c stands you might want to take a look at a UK newsletter which is sent weekly, I don't remember the name of it but whenever I get a new email I'll post the name.

 

I have seen small fresnels sold by £20!

 

Phil, we'll talk about the UK Industry when we do a meet and greet in London! Over a cup of tea of course! ;)

 

Have a lovely day.

[Freya Black]

Freya are the fixtures complete? Barndoors, scrims, TVMP and wired with switches and cords or just with a fixture whip and stagepin connector?

 

Hey! Let's talk gobos (again)!

 

Fixtures are far from complete but hey, I paid £18 for one and he is sending me another 2 for £9 each. They are in bad condition so I am planning to rewire them and as I was discussing with Phil maybe putting a new lamp in at least one of them. In fact one of them doesn't even come with a lamp anyway and the seller was claiming it's the worst of the three which is hard to believe as the photo's of the one I bought look a right state like they lived in the garden a couple of decades. There will definitely not be any TVMP for them as there never are with lights like these generally. The lack of barndoors is a bit of a shame tho as I'm not sure what I'm going to do about that. It's a shame there isn't a standard barn door mounting. More flags I guess.

 

Aside from my IKEA lights, my new lights are:

 

3 CCT Minuette Spots

2 Stand "2 Spot T" Profile lights (I think these are like elipsiods/leko's?)

 

Definitely no scrims I think. I was thinking I could wire them to a dimmer maybe. Would this look different to dropping a scrim in the front? Would that affect colour temp?

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

If you want to buy super cheap small fresnels or c stands you might want to take a look at a UK newsletter which is sent weekly, I don't remember the name of it but whenever I get a new email I'll post the name.

 

I have seen small fresnels sold by £20!

 

 

Yes! Please PM me this as soon as you find out! :D

 

Freya

[Vivek Venkatraman]

Hey Freya,

 

I am sorry as lighting terminology seems to vary a bit around the world but there is a light that is some what similar to the Ikea light that you shared which is primarily used in theatre called profiles [ well at least thats what we call them in India]. They have a compartment for Gobos [and you can get them made pretty cheap here] and are used specifically for this purpose. They also come in different angles that control the spread of the light.

They usually come with a 1 KW tungsten bulb.

 

This is what I am talking about - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipsoidal_reflector_spotlight.

 

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Vivek Venkatraman

[Stuart Allman]

Freya,

 

I produce blog tutorial videos for the local rental house. If you're ever in southern California PM me and you can come play with the toys we use - loads of c-stands and all.

 

I like your Ikea light find. Maybe you can find a used Leko somewhere and really make a bright pattern! Over here they are inexpensive to pick up and completely versatile. It's just so much easier/cheaper to rent here that I don't bother to own lights.

[Freya Black]

Hey Freya,

 

I am sorry as lighting terminology seems to vary a bit around the world but there is a light that is some what similar to the Ikea light that you shared which is primarily used in theatre called profiles [ well at least thats what we call them in India]. They have a compartment for Gobos [and you can get them made pretty cheap here] and are used specifically for this purpose. They lso come in different angles that control the spread of the light.

They usually come with a 1 KW tungsten bulb.

 

Thanks Vivek.. YES! :) I was just saying that I bought 2 Strand Profiles and we call them the same here and I was asking if they were the same as Leko's/ Ellipsoidal. I'm quite excited. They were quite a bit more than the Ikea lights but they are 1K as you suggest so a lot more powerful.

 

I suspect there may be some comanality between India and the UK in some of the lights and names!

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Freya,

 

I produce blog tutorial videos for the local rental house. If you're ever in southern California PM me and you can come play with the toys we use - loads of c-stands and all.

 

I like your Ikea light find. Maybe you can find a used Leko somewhere and really make a bright pattern! Over here they are inexpensive to pick up and completely versatile. It's just so much easier/cheaper to rent here that I don't bother to own lights.

 

 

Thanks for the invite Stuart! I might take you up on that if I'm in town sometime. :)

I think I now have 2 Leko's (or I have 2 profiles if they are the same thing) or in any case I have two 1K lights with gobo slots.

I'm looking forward to their arrival. One advantage to having some cheap lights is you can just play with them whenever you want and learn a bit more about the way they work on your own time.

 

Freya

[Phil Rhodes]

The word "Leko" is derived from the names Levy and Kook, the inventors. It is a chiefly US term for a collimated projection spotlight. The term has become genericised, along with "ellipsoidal" (from the shape of the reflector) and, in the UK, "profile" (because the beam can be shaped with shutters or gobos), to refer to any such light. Perhaps the most correct universal term is ERS, for ellipsoidal reflector spotlight, but the initialism wouldn't be widely recognised.

 

The term "source four" is also close to genericisation, but most people seem aware that it is actually someone's trademark. The film industry seems to prefer lights from ETC's Source Four range, which is named after the four clustered filaments of the 575-watt HPL (High Performance Lamp) which was developed for it. The same lamp is also used in the later Source Four PARs and fresnels and their many third-party clones. The ETC range is nice because it is made of a fairly small number of large metal castings, limiting noise due to expansion and contraction, and because the optics are of fairly good quality. Many alternatives exist, though, and they're all perfectly usable.

 

P

[JD Hartman]

I think I now have 2 Leko's (or I have 2 profiles if they are the same thing) or in any case I have two 1K lights with gobo slots.

I'm looking forward to their arrival. One advantage to having some cheap lights is you can just play with them whenever you want and learn a bit more about the way they work on your own time.

 

Freya

 

What degree lens tubes did you get with the ellipsoidals?

[Freya Black]

 

What degree lens tubes did you get with the ellipsoidals?

 

The plate on the back say 90 - 0 - 90

What should I be looking for?

 

Freya

[Phil Rhodes]

Not all of them have interchangeable lens tubes. That's a Source Four (and clones) thing.

[Stuart Brereton]

 

What, you just walk in?

 

This is one of those things where you already have to know them, isn't it? And you won't know Panavision unless your diet is 100% enormous American movies, in which case you're way beyond needing to be an intern.

 

It's actually worth expanding on this a bit. I should admit that I have never spoken to Panavision nor any company associated with them

 

Panavision generally won't even pick up the phone for anything but the biggest shows, and the idea that they're going to talk to a completely inexperienced wannabe is completely ridiculous.

 

Yes, Phil. you just walk in. You say hi to the receptionist, or to whoever is manning the front desk, and you explain what you want. Maybe they can't talk to you that day, so you go back another day. Be persistent.

 

I'm struggling to understand how you can know that 'Panavision generally won't even pick up the phone for anything but the biggest shows' when you admit that you've never spoken to anyone there. You're making sweeping generalizations based on an assumption which doesn't necessarily have any basis in fact.

[Phil Rhodes]

You misunderstand. I've tried to speak to Panavision (and many other places) on many occasions, both recently and in the distant past an on many occasions between. One particularly good example was a few years ago when I was calling round to see if anyone still had any F750s and thought - hang on, don't Panavision have F900s?

 

Daft, of course, but it seemed like a good idea at the time and one is of course encouraged not to ask for the latest thing when on a budget. They wouldn't even put me through to the people who could answer the question, having ascertained I didn't have an amount of money to spend that was worth their while. I had a few hundred quid a day, insurance, and a competent first. But it just wasn't a big enough deal for them.

 

And the point is, that's completely reasonable! I have no complaints. They owe me nothing. They didn't owe me a deal. I'm a nobody. I wouldn't give me a deal. I'm never going to be a big cheese in the camera department. I'm never going to make them any money. It was more or less the same story everywhere else. In most industries, creating new relationships with clients is key, but in film, in the UK, they know full well that the already have all the relationships they need. All the big movies go to Panavision without a second thought. Nobody else had any money and nobody else ever will. Why would they deal with me? I wouldn't, in their position. They probably get a dozen calls a day like that from losers like me. What would you do?

 

Nobody is being unreasonable here, but you have to accept the reality. If you were Big Rental, why would you give some nobody the time of day, whatever their desires? You're never going to want to talk to them, let alone employ them.

 

Phil

[JD Hartman]

Not all of them have interchangeable lens tubes. That's a Source Four (and clones) thing.

 

Correct, I missed that they are Strand lekos.

[Bill DiPietra]

You misunderstand. I've tried to speak to Panavision (and many other places) on many occasions, both recently and in the distant past an on many occasions between. One particularly good example was a few years ago when I was calling round to see if anyone still had any F750s and thought - hang on, don't Panavision have F900s?

 

Daft, of course, but it seemed like a good idea at the time and one is of course encouraged not to ask for the latest thing when on a budget. They wouldn't even put me through to the people who could answer the question, having ascertained I didn't have an amount of money to spend that was worth their while. I had a few hundred quid a day, insurance, and a competent first. But it just wasn't a big enough deal for them.

 

And the point is, that's completely reasonable! I have no complaints. They owe me nothing. They didn't owe me a deal. I'm a nobody. I wouldn't give me a deal. I'm never going to be a big cheese in the camera department. I'm never going to make them any money. It was more or less the same story everywhere else. In most industries, creating new relationships with clients is key, but in film, in the UK, they know full well that the already have all the relationships they need. All the big movies go to Panavision without a second thought. Nobody else had any money and nobody else ever will. Why would they deal with me? I wouldn't, in their position. They probably get a dozen calls a day like that from losers like me. What would you do?

 

Nobody is being unreasonable here, but you have to accept the reality. If you were Big Rental, why would you give some nobody the time of day, whatever their desires? You're never going to want to talk to them, let alone employ them.

 

Phil

 

From a business standpoint, I understand what you are you saying, Phil. But at the same time, it's not the best policy for a huge company like Panavision to have. I could argue from the other end of the spectrum and say, what does it cost them to give you the time of day? Ten minutes on the phone with a rep is simply good customer service, even if it winds up that Panavision is not a feasible rental house for that project. The contact has been made and maybe the next project will able to afford a Panavision rental.

 

Besides, you never know who that "nobody" on the phone asking about a basic camera package could turn out to be in the future.

[Phil Rhodes]

 

 

Besides, you never know who that "nobody" on the phone asking about a basic camera package could turn out to be in the future.

 

That's sort of the point: you do. Round here, they're going to be a nobody forever.

 

P

[Robin R Probyn]

One of the main problems in the UK film industry is the lack of negative Phil ..

 

 

(sorry couldn't resist).. love your articles by the way.. I think its all bluff.. you have a big house in Primrose Hill and a Bentley ..

[Phil Rhodes]

I'd suggest that you ask one of the forum's regular contributors who's a high-level director of photography in the UK.

 

Only there isn't one.

 

P