Hateful Eight Experience

[Bill DiPietra]

Well, I can certainly relate to the pessimism myself but it shouldn't start clouding everything.

 

I'm sure we are all a tad pessimistic about one aspect of our lives or another. It tends to come with age when you eventually see things for what they are. But that is the time - more than any other - to recall the idealism one had when he or she was first inspired by something and to keep that passion alive. The worst thing you can do is to become jaded about something you once loved.

 

Teaching people the technical aspects of film-making is fine, but there is a lot more to it. My best teachers inspired me to create with the energy and enthusiasm that they still had (and these are people who were in their fifties when I was in their classes.) They saw the passion I had for film-making and they knew how to tap into it.

 

I'm not trying to put a damper on what you're doing, Tyler. But in all honestly, I've learned more about the technical side of film-making on my own than I ever did in a classroom.

[Justin Hayward]

Well, I can certainly relate to the pessimism myself but it shouldn't start clouding everything.

 

In terms of what constitutes success, I like this quote by Winston Churchill:

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."

 

I've often thought it would be nice if "successful" filmmaking had all the prestige and financial success of being a plumber or a carpenter. At least then the people that truly luv making movies would have a better chance at making a living doing it.

[Bill DiPietra]

 

I've often thought it would be nice if "successful" filmmaking had all the prestige and financial success of being a plumber or a carpenter. At least then the people that truly luv making movies would have a better chance at making a living doing it.

 

Well, I can kind of relate to that mindset. I have a full-time job that has absolutely nothing to do with film-making but it pays for the pursuit of my true passion. I sometimes wish I'd become a full-time freelance film-maker, but I don't think I would have lasted long in that lifestyle. I think I would have become rather burnt out and, as I said earlier, that's the last thing you want to happen with something you love.

 

With that said, I give people who do pursue that lifestyle all the credit in the world.

[Tyler Purcell]

I have a full-time job that has absolutely nothing to do with film-making but it pays for the pursuit of my true passion. I sometimes wish I'd become a full-time freelance film-maker, but I don't think I would have lasted long in that lifestyle.

Well, that maybe the big difference here. I'm a full-time filmmaker and until you actually try to make a living doing what you love, its hard to judge. You learn very quickly to be pessimistic and pragmatic, rather then passion taking everything over. Also, I'm not a journeyman going from job to job performing a particular task. I do a wide gamut of tasks during a given week, everything from story development to coloring and everything in between.

 

Now, I love telling stories, who doesn't. However, it's experience that pushes me to say what I say. Do you continue making products that nobody cares about, that very few people will ever see, which pulls cash and time away from your non-industry job? OR, do you compromise and make a product that is suitable for a wider audience, one that potentially could make money, one that may allow you to make films for the rest of your life? You get to a certain point in your path as a filmmaker where you have to sit down and have that discussion. I had it a few years ago after I had spent three years producing a feature documentary that was an instant hit at film festivals around the world, winning awards and being seen by some top people. What did we get from it? NOTHING! We told a wonderful story that had never been told before, we had an all-star cast and it's a great little movie. Yet, nobody cares because it's not main stream enough. So here I am five years later, having invested three years of my life making the thing and never seeing a dime back.

 

That story is very typical and if you have a full-time job doing something outside of the entertainment industry, it's truly impossible to know what it feels like for your film to be a failure. When you have job/financial security, these things matter much less. When you're so broke from making a film, you're literally begging for a gig just to put some money in your coffers. That's when passion kinda goes out the window because no matter how much passion you have, it can't put food on the table.

 

So when people talk to me about being passionate... it kinda grinds my gears. Nobody would go through the experiences I went through, they would have given up years ago. Yet here I am, still passionate to a fault, prepping two short films and a feature, as if nothing ever happened. I just want people who haven't had this experience to realize there is far more to filmmaking then being passionate.

[Bill DiPietra]

That story is very typical and if you have a full-time job doing something outside of the entertainment industry, it's truly impossible to know what it feels like for your film to be a failure. When you have job/financial security, these things matter much less. When you're so broke from making a film, you're literally begging for a gig just to put some money in your coffers. That's when passion kinda goes out the window because no matter how much passion you have, it can't put food on the table.

 

So when people talk to me about being passionate... it kinda grinds my gears. Nobody would go through the experiences I went through, they would have given up years ago. Yet here I am, still passionate to a fault, prepping two short films and a feature, as if nothing ever happened. I just want people who haven't had this experience to realize there is far more to filmmaking then being passionate.

 

Fair enough. I don't pretend to have walked in yours or anyone else's shoes, Tyler. At the end of the day, I'm happy I wound up choosing the path that I'm currently on. And I wish you the best with your upcoming projects.

[Robin R Probyn]

Guys very simple solution.. get a partner with a steady job or a trust fund .. :)..

 

I think there is a big difference between a "film maker" like Tyler .. who is involved with the whole production.. most importantly funding,or self funding.. and someone like myself or others here that just do the one job freelance for other peoples productions.. technicians I guess.. this is more like a trade.. you serve a bit of an apprenticeship.. learn a craft .. some are a bit better than others.. had better teachers and luck plays a huge part too.. Im sure anyone in this industry doing well can point to one time when they were in the the right place at the right time..

 

I admire the filmmakers.. putting huge amounts of time and money into their own projects.. I couldn't live that life.. but I guess at least for a very few ,there can be huge finical rewards and acclaim if they strike gold one day..

[Bill DiPietra]

I think there is a big difference between a "film maker" like Tyler .. who is involved with the whole production.. most importantly funding,or self funding.. and someone like myself or others here that just do the one job freelance for other peoples productions.. technicians I guess.. this is more like a trade.. you serve a bit of an apprenticeship.. learn a craft .. some are a bit better than others.. had better teachers and luck plays a huge part too.. Im sure anyone in this industry doing well can point to one time when they were in the the right place at the right time..

 

I admire the filmmakers.. putting huge amounts of time and money into their own projects.. I couldn't live that life.. but I guess at least for a very few ,there can be huge finical rewards and acclaim if they strike gold one day..

 

Just because you don't do it full-time does not mean you are not a film-maker. That's a really narrow-minded view. I finance my own projects with my own money and I am involved in every single aspect of the productions. My current one is closing in on $10K spent...and that's just under what I budgeted for. Having a steady paycheck also allows me to back other people's projects if I so choose.

[Robin R Probyn]

Bill.. sorry you have taken my post totally the wrong way.. I was actually going to type Tyler and Bill as film makers ..this wasn't a reply to your postings sir.. I would most definitely include you as a film maker.. I was only making the distinction between film makers like your self who actually "make" your own films and film/tv technicians like myself..

 

I have great respect for you guys.. especially putting your own money into projects ..

[Guest]

I just want people who haven't had this experience to realize there is far more to filmmaking then being passionate.

 

Yes, and few people understand that better than I do.

 

R,

[Guest]

And really it's nearly impossible for indie films to lose money, seeing that they're usually made for 1 million dollars or less.

 

If someone has hard costs out on an indie movie of 1 million, their chances of getting that back are zero to near zero. I could type reams about why the math will never work.

 

Unfortunately American filmmakers do not have access to tax credit programs they way Canadian and European filmmakers do, Americans can't even participate in co-pro structures as the US has not signed a co-pro deal with anyone. But of course the US has Hollywood and the ability to finance tent-poles, no one else can do that.

 

Making a $50, 000.00 movie is pretty much just as bad, 50K means no bankable stars of any kind, so getting past that point with any buyer is nearly impossible. Blair Witch and Paranormal Activity are well documented, but they are the lottery winners of film.

 

R,

[Tyler Purcell]

Blair Witch and Paranormal Activity are well documented, but they are the lottery winners of film.

Yep and sure there are many examples of people breaking into the industry with great films, but not of recent, not taking their investment and getting anything back for it.

[David Mullen ASC]

Yep and sure there are many examples of people breaking into the industry with great films, but not of recent, not taking their investment and getting anything back for it.

 

So "Fruitvale Station" (2013) was not a recent movie? I know exceptions don't make the rule, but to say that there are NO recent examples of low-budget movies making a return on their investment is not accurate.

[Bill DiPietra]

Bill.. sorry you have taken my post totally the wrong way.. I was actually going to type Tyler and Bill as film makers ..this wasn't a reply to your postings sir.. I would most definitely include you as a film maker.. I was only making the distinction between film makers like your self who actually "make" your own films and film/tv technicians like myself..

 

I have great respect for you guys.. especially putting your own money into projects ..

 

Fair enough...sorry I misinterpreted, Robin.

 

On the other hand, I think you are selling yourself short by calling yourself a "Film/TV Technician" and I guarantee you have more experience in the field of cinematography than I do.

[Robin R Probyn]

 

Fair enough...sorry I misinterpreted, Robin.

 

On the other hand, I think you are selling yourself short by calling yourself a "Film/TV Technician" and I guarantee you have more experience in the field of cinematography than I do.

 

 

 

Thanks Bill.. Yes I probably do just because Ive been doing it for a while.. but I wouldn't call myself a film maker.. Im a cameraman..I work on other peoples films.. and I certainly dont put my own money into their projects.. in fact I try to relieve them of the maximum amount :)... my point being that as a "specialized " worker (camera/sound/editing/makeup/gaffer /grip etc) within the film /TV industry.. alot of people can make a pretty good living out of it.. especially if you have your own gear.. vital for freelance tv/corp work in my opinion.. but to make your own films is a different story.. people I know who do this usually have high earning,long suffering spouses or family money..

Edited December 24, 2015 by Robin R Probyn

[Tyler Purcell]

So "Fruitvale Station" (2013) was not a recent movie? I know exceptions don't make the rule, but to say that there are NO recent examples of low-budget movies making a return on their investment is not accurate.

'Fruitvale Station' wasn't really a low budget, self-funded, art movie. It was a main-stream, decent budget film funded by Forest Whitaker's production company. You don't close a BART station (I assume shot at night) for weeks to shoot a film unless you've got a lot of money.

[Giray Izcan]

Tyler, is your mission in life to go against the grain every chance you get? I admire what you do, trying to keep film alive. But frankly, your know-it-all cavalier attitude is wearing thin I suppose. Anyhow happy holidays.

[Satsuki Murashige]

'Fruitvale Station' wasn't really a low budget, self-funded, art movie. It was a main-stream, decent budget film funded by Forest Whitaker's production company. You don't close a BART station (I assume shot at night) for weeks to shoot a film unless you've got a lot of money.

I have some friends who worked on that film. The 1st AC Jeremy Wong was mentor of mine when I was starting out. It was indeed a low budget film, very low rates. I can ask him about the details of the shooting schedule if you like.

[Tyler Purcell]

I have some friends who worked on that film. The 1st AC Jeremy Wong was mentor of mine when I was starting out. It was indeed a low budget film, very low rates. I can ask him about the details of the shooting schedule if you like.

Yea, I'd love to know more about the production. Always love learning! :)

[Giray Izcan]

It is 5:00am and I just got back home from watching the movie in 70mm at ArcLight. The cinematography was gorgeous - not to mention 70mm film projection experience; however, it did not do it for me. It was rather dull and pointless. Most of the film could have been cut out since they don't necessarily serve a purpose. I guess if you like Tarantino's good ol' tricks that he always employs in every single one of his movies, well, this movie might be for you. I don't know the movie made me think of the term "one trick pony" once again much like any other QT movies - overly stylized gore scenes for no reason, excessively dialogue driven plot are the two come to mind right this moment. If I didn't care for the cinematography and watching a movie in film print, I would have walked out of the movies for sure. The first half of the movie almost, I figured out some simple stuff about the characters such as their names and their purpose in life that could have been told in a whole a lot shorter time. If one had scratched Tarantino's name off of the credits, and wrote some random person's name, most people would have labeled this movie as garbage for sure. Since it is QT, it is an automatic genius masterpiece I guess.

 

On the other hand, at this hour, I managed to stay awake the whole time, so I will give a personal award to myself haha.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Giray Izcan

[Freya Black]

Young filmmakers struggle to understand how the system works because it's the only business that doesn't reward for a better product.

 

 

You have got to be kidding me!

I'm always surprised at the stuff where people talk about stuff like it only happens in the movie industry whereas it's actually quite common!

 

I'm actually struggling to think of businesses that reward employees for making a better product and there are definitely plenty of whole industry's where making a better product is not really even the focus.

 

Freya

[Freya Black]

Blade Runner is another obvious movie with absolutely terrible box office.

 

Having said that there have definitely been film makers whose careers have been absolutely destroyed after a box office flop. It's not only about the money tho so watch out for that. It can also be about the buzz that a filmmaker has around them. There are different aspects to it. It can be about who you are friends with (a big one here in the UK) and it can even be that you made a respected movie that gives you some kind of status, no matter what the box office was like, especially if the right people really like that movie!

 

However you would be wise to keep an eye on the economics of things.

Economics really does play a big factor in everything. If you keep an eye on the economics of thing you can see the direction things are heading in.

 

I kind of agree with Tyler sort of. I think if you are financing your own films, and you aren't well set up financially, then you need to be careful. I think it's okay to make stuff without commercial prospects if you can really keep the costs down, and that really is possible if you are open minded about it. It is worth keeping in mind however that you are still investing the time from your life in the project so you need to be sure that's okay too. If you are thinking of spending proper money on a movie and it's not got the possibility of ever being sold however, that's another thing.

 

It's also getting harder and harder to break even on making tiny low budget movies in a commercial genre too.

 

There was an article I read a while back where someone had some minor success with a documentary they made and were moaning about how they thought that making movies was going to be some kind of "get rich quick" scheme, and were even implying that this was how all filmmakers viewed things.

 

There are certainly people out there who have been drawn into filmmaking who aren't even that into it but just heard all these stories about people becoming rich/successful.

 

Freya

Edited December 25, 2015 by Freya Black

[Freya Black]

. To some effect, The Clockwork Orange incited terrible acts of violence in England, it just shows you how influential and realistic cinema can be when it is done well, perhaps it doesn't mirror our reality in a conventional sense, but it is a distorted reality that touches us in different ways. I think you're underestimating just how powerful and influential films are, if you don't believe me watch the films of Leni Riefenstahl and how they brainwashed an entire nation, or the ads ISIS is producing to influence younger people to blow themselves up.

 

 

There are still terrible acts of violence in England and there were before a Clockwork Orange too. Okay so maybe some people dressed up in costumes after seeing the movie but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have been violent anyway. We have quite a violent yob culture in the UK anyway.

 

Same with Leni Reifenstahl, I would suggest she played a very small part in the whole Nazi propaganda machine.

 

Freya

[David Mullen ASC]

Most movies with big budgets are not risk takers, which is natural. But as a filmgoer and cinephile, not an investor, I like seeing the occasional big-budget "art" film, whether or not they find an audience -- because some stories require more money to become alive on screen. Some succeed, some don't, some barely break even. "The Revenant" cost more than original projected, by many millions -- maybe that will still pay off, who knows. Certainly some very safe movies haven't done well at the box office either.

 

But in the long run, I'm glad that some of these oddball expensive movies got made, from "Heaven's Gate" to "Baron Munchausen" to "Dune". And some of these directors went on to make more movies. Gore Verbinski already has another movie in the can after "Lone Ranger".

 

Take a look at this list. Not all the directors of these movies were stopped after these movies failed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_box_office_bombs

[Freya Black]

But in the long run, I'm glad that some of these oddball expensive movies got made, from "Heaven's Gate" to "Baron Munchausen" to "Dune". And some of these directors went on to make more movies. Gore Verbinski already has another movie in the can after "Lone Ranger".

 

Gore Verbinski is a good example because he is a recognised name with some buzz around him. There is also the possibility when people become more established that people like working with them, or they have friends in the right places, they might even just be easy to work with.

 

Blade Runner was a flop but it became a respected and influential movie and thus Riddley Scott has such a solid name and reputation that why wouldn't they hire him to make that next movie?!

 

Of course there are also many examples of people whose careers were destroyed by disastrous movies.

 

It's more difficult if you are a tiny filmmaker making a first movie of some kind too of course.

[Guest]

"The Revenant" cost more than original projected, by many millions -- maybe that will still pay off, who knows.

 

The first thing I had to do was look up what "revenant" means, because I had never heard that word before. I'm guessing I'm in the majority on that one. So in that sense this movie has already broken basic marketing 101.....KISS, Keep It Simple Stupid. The movie is being marketed as a swash buckling Western epic, which is something American audiences understand. I'm still not sure if this this film will perform with the mainstream public or not?

 

Certainly Bird Man had the general public scratching their heads, the critics loved it, obviously. But it had limited market exposure, and when it was announced as best picture most of the viewers at home went.....what did they say? Very similar to The Artist.

 

So the box office on this one will be interesting indeed.

 

R,