575 HMI PAR for $150?

Phil Rhodes · January 13, 2016

Various riffs on this have been floating around for a while, but this is the first one I've seen that's hot restrike.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291653693963

OK, fine, by the time you've shipped it, perhaps replaced the lamp, and done whatever other maintenance it isn't really $150 anymore, but good grief, that's a promising deal. They're fan-cooled ballasts, but a bit of ingenuity could remote it assuming the ignitor is in the back of the lamp, which it almost certainly is. DMX control and hot start, apparently.

Not to sound like a stuck record, but again I find myself wishing I were a few thousand miles closer to Glens Falls, New York.

Because good grief, that's a cracking deal.

P

JD Hartman · January 13, 2016

I've seen crap like this at shows like DV Expo. For me if a choice between shoddy crap from PRC or nothing, I'll choose nothing.

Aapo Lettinen · January 13, 2016

that is probably Metal Halide lamp and not true HMI, at least all the models I have seen for sale (Thomann etc places) were simple metal halide. the ballast design would be very difficult for cine use, you would need to make a extension cord for it to be useful because it would be very heavy and awkward if used as is. and it probably can't stand moisture/water at all because it is made for theatre/stage indoor use

Phil Rhodes · January 13, 2016

JD, that's sort of the point. These things aren't poorly-made imports, Chroma-Q is a reputable company. They were built to do trade shows - car shows in particular liked them. The reason they're cheap is that that industry seems to be moving away from them (and the reflectors may be shot, but that's another issue). If it costs $300 to buy one of these, get it delivered, put a decent lamp in it and generally get it up to standard, that's still a great deal.

As to being metal halide, they're usually described as MSR, which is functionally the same thing as HMI. If they're genuinely hot restrike, I strongly suspect they'll have a G22 base.

I suspect that remoting the ballast would be the toughest part, and that might only require a simple cable extension and a couple of appropriate connectors.

Ultimately, it's difficult to be completely sure without seeing one, but I've used worse!

JD Hartman · January 13, 2016

A bargain at any price?

True lens-less PAR, doubt it.

Cost of some sort of lenses?

Cost of 7 conductor SOOW or SEOW cord plus misc. items from head to ballast??

Addition of a door safety interlock microswitch?

New globe?

Quieter cooling fan?

Ballast upgrade parts...?

Still a bargain?

Cheaper for you to emigrate to a more technologically "developed" country.

Edited January 13, 2016 by JD Hartman

Mark Dunn · January 13, 2016

Cheaper for you to emigrate to a more technologically "developed" country.

Phil and I are both in the UK. Careful now.

Phil Rhodes · January 13, 2016

True lens-less PAR, doubt it.

Yes, although they're very hot-spotty. The idea generally is to treat it as a fresnel with considerably enhanced optical efficiency.

Cost of some sort of lenses?

Anywhere from a few dollars each to many tens each, depending what you want. There is some confusion over UV safety. This is a concern, certainly.

Cost of 7 conductor SOOW or SEOW cord plus misc. items from head to ballast??

Not required. The feed is generally two-conductor. Mains cable tends to be adequately rated (575W lamps of this type tend to run at around 90-100V, though the open-circuit voltage may be slightly higher).

Addition of a door safety interlock microswitch?

Well, there's no door, per se, so that's not really an issue. You could make the point that there should be an interlock with the lens removal, but these never had that in general use and thousands of them exist. I consider it a reasonable oversight in professional equipment, although I'd be a bit more cautious if this were intended for home users.

New globe?

Well - yes?

Quieter cooling fan?

Or a longer cable. The fans in these old ones may be fairly worn out, I guess. Often, fans are a standard size and easy to change.

Ballast upgrade parts...?

Depends on what you mean by "upgrade". Powercon connectors are widely used for this sort of application, although you might consider it misuse. You could use 7-pin Amphenol Ecomate, though they're a bit expensive.

Still a bargain?

Well, let's play devil's advocate, and assume that the bits and pieces come to another $150, for $300 to get it to a usable state.

Compared to a 575W ArriSun 5 HMI PAR at something like ten times the price, just for the head, no lamp, no ballast, no cable?

Er... well... yes. A really really big bargain, actually. Otherwise, I wouldn't have mentioned it.

P

JD Hartman · January 13, 2016

This fixture is considered what? A commercial, architectural or trade show fixture. No capabilities for focus or lenses, if you did find lenses (for a few dollars or UKP?) , would the accessory ears put them at the correct focal point for the reflector? Would they have to be modified as well? The effort and the result could be as it's said, "Putting lipstick on a pig."

...and you, having fiddled it with now means it has no UL, CE or any other safety certification. Heaven help you if "talent" is injured.

I think you just enjoy "Tilting at windmills", Mr. Don Quixote.

Adrian Sierkowski · January 13, 2016

Well Phil you're always welcomed to buy it and ship it to my place-- i'll keep an eye on it for you

JD Hartman · January 13, 2016

Very nice of you to offer Adrian. Maybe someone closer to the seller could offered to pick them up and save Phil the shipping entirely.

Adrian Sierkowski · January 13, 2016

Eh; i'm a nice guy; Don't tell a soul.

Phil Rhodes · January 13, 2016

This fixture is considered what? A commercial, architectural or trade show fixture.

Well, be fair; it's basically an ETC Source Four PAR, and they're fairly commonly offered.

No capabilities for focus or lenses, if you did find lenses (for a few dollars or UKP?) , would the accessory ears put them at the correct focal point for the reflector?

Yes. Lenses for this sort of light are fairly universal. They drop in the front and clip in place.

Sorry, JD, it does actually look pretty good. I discover they are G22-base, too, so you can put a proper HMI globe in there without modification. Or, well, you should be able to. I'm not aware of any reason why not.

P

Alexandre de Tolan · January 14, 2016

Well, be fair; it's basically an ETC Source Four PAR, and they're fairly commonly offered.

Yes. Lenses for this sort of light are fairly universal. They drop in the front and clip in place.

Sorry, JD, it does actually look pretty good. I discover they are G22-base, too, so you can put a proper HMI globe in there without modification. Or, well, you should be able to. I'm not aware of any reason why not.

P

From Chroma Q website:

Key Features

575W 6000°K hot restrike lamp with high colour rendition

Based around the rugged and familiar ETC Source 4 Par

Supplied with colour frame and a set of lenses

Integrated flicker free DMX controlled PSU enables remote on, off and lamp economy mode features

2200 hour lamp option also available

As Phil, "wishing I were a few thousand miles closer to Glens Falls, New York", but since I'm not (and live in a 220V country), doesn't the ballasts run on 110V only?

Edited January 14, 2016 by Alexandre de Tolan

Phil Rhodes · January 14, 2016

Go a layer deeper into the company website and it's specified as 110-240. It'd be fairly unusual for a modern ballast to be picky.

P

Alexandre de Tolan · January 14, 2016

Go a layer deeper into the company website and it's specified as 110-240. It'd be fairly unusual for a modern ballast to be picky.

P

Great. Only wish deals like these would come up in Europe. That would save a lot on shipping and customs charges. That alone would make for all upgrading needs that was already mentioned in this thread.

Phil Rhodes · January 14, 2016

Quite so.

JD Hartman · January 14, 2016

Claiming it's this? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/437052-REG/ETC_7061A1036_1XB_Source_4_150W_HID.html

Company website description of the Fleabay auction fixture reads more like it's a far east copy and the seller offers no warranty. The auction item doesn't come with any lenses either which B&H sells for approx $20USD each.

But anyway, whatever floats you boat.

Phil Rhodes · January 14, 2016

No, it's a Chroma-Q Daylight PAR. It's based on an ETC Source Four PAR, but ETC never made a 575.

There are certainly a lot of knockoffs around. It's a widely-copied design. The far east clones tend to use iron ballasts. I own three 150s which I refit with smarter ballasts (this is a very low cost mod as 150w metal halide ballasts are widely used). They're certainly cheap and Chinese, but there's a limit to how bad a cast lamp shell can be and still fit together.

P

JD Hartman · March 6, 2016

Multi-page thread running over a DVXuser about these lights. Interesting that some of those posting have little or no concern about the UV emitted by the lamp. Some mention of potential dangers/skin/retina damage to talent, but no talk about the danger to crew who will probably be closer to the fixture and exposed to the spill from it.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?335146-150-for-a-575-HMI-par

Phil Rhodes · March 6, 2016

That's where I heard about it.

I found the UV issues a bit alarming, too, but mainly because people seem to think that UV filter gel (that's intended to prevent artwork and merchandise from fading in sunlight) is adequate protection. It isn't.

That said, if sensibly used these will be no more dangerous than when they were built, and variations on this sort of thing were built and used in large numbers, so there's no intrinsic problem.

P

JD Hartman · March 6, 2016

The general attitude towards safety was kind of cavalier in the DVUser thread. In their original application, which the other thread stated is lighting vehicles at car shows, the UV risk would be kind of minimal.