New 1000w Plasma Lights from Hive.

[Mark Kenfield]

Now THIS is friggin cool! Hive are showing new 1000w versions of their Wasp Plasma PAR, and their Bee Plasma Floodlight.

 

2.5kw HMI equivalent output, that you can plug into the wall (hell, you can plug two into a 240v wall socket). Zero flicker issues for highspeed work. And all the other benefits of solid state lighting (hopefully variable colour temperature and some dimming capability too).

 

 

$8k for the PAR kit and $6k for the Bee floodlight kit apparently

[Stuart Allman]

Mark,

 

I know, right? The rental shop I blog for has a good relationship with Hive, so I hope to get a demo model down to do a video about it this summer. I use the Bee and Wasp all the time on shoots. For me, the 250W Bee has been more useful. With the new Wasp they provide plastic lenses to go over the PAR and the plastic melts and/or turns yellow, especially if you use a scrim on the light. The lenses are also kind of wonky - they don't quite work. I'm interested to see if they fixed that issue since a 1kW light will melt plastic pretty quick.

 

The other problem I commonly see is that their front protective glass cracks due to shock and vibration. It looks like they changed their "box" form factor, so hopefully they fixed the glass problem as well. It's not expensive or difficult to repair, but it's just a pain to have to do it.

 

The plasma lights don't have all the horrible color rendering problems HMI's do - at least the ones I've experienced. It looks like they even improved the spectrum on the new bulbs, so I look forward to testing that out as well. I like not having to melt the talent's skin off, unlike when I use tungsten to get good color rendering.

 

Stuart

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illuma.blogspot.com

[Jean Gonzales]

Still waiting to get our hands on some here in Belgium..

[Phil Rhodes]

 

 

2.5kw HMI equivalent output

 

I'd love to know how, considering it's basically the same physics. Still, I am at NAB so I can probably wander over and ask them!

[Mark Kenfield]

Mark,

 

I know, right? The rental shop I blog for has a good relationship with Hive, so I hope to get a demo model down to do a video about it this summer. I use the Bee and Wasp all the time on shoots. For me, the 250W Bee has been more useful. With the new Wasp they provide plastic lenses to go over the PAR and the plastic melts and/or turns yellow, especially if you use a scrim on the light. The lenses are also kind of wonky - they don't quite work. I'm interested to see if they fixed that issue since a 1kW light will melt plastic pretty quick.

 

The other problem I commonly see is that their front protective glass cracks due to shock and vibration. It looks like they changed their "box" form factor, so hopefully they fixed the glass problem as well. It's not expensive or difficult to repair, but it's just a pain to have to do it.

 

The plasma lights don't have all the horrible color rendering problems HMI's do - at least the ones I've experienced. It looks like they even improved the spectrum on the new bulbs, so I look forward to testing that out as well. I like not having to melt the talent's skin off, unlike when I use tungsten to get good color rendering.

 

Stuart

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illuma.blogspot.com

 

I haven't had a reason to rent out the smaller wattage Hives before, so I'm not familiar with the quirks, but I've been following the technology with interest. Those issues with the plastic lenses sound problematic, hopefully they've been fixed in this latest revision.

 

Being able to run the equivalent of two 2.5kw HMIs off a single suitcase gennie is a big deal for a lot of the work I do.

 

 

I'd love to know how, considering it's basically the same physics. Still, I am at NAB so I can probably wander over and ask them!

 

Doooo eeeet.

[Satsuki Murashige]

Do Hive make something like a Leko or Molebeam? Because that would be sweet.

[Mark Kenfield]

Do Hive make something like a Leko or Molebeam? Because that would be sweet.

 

Yep, they have a leko style attachment.

[andrew ward]

I think in real world settings all these exciting lights prove to not be as bright as they say and have bizarre designs that no one who actually used them would implement.

[JD Hartman]

I think in real world settings all these exciting lights prove to not be as bright as they say and have bizarre designs that no one who actually used them would implement.

 

What real world experience do you have with any Hive lights to back up this statement? Maybe your statement should be prefaced with, "IMHO....".

 

What company (except one whos business plan was to go out of business) would put development money into features that would serve no purpose?

[Adrian Sierkowski]

The biggest issues with Hive thus far are price to own and availability-- they're not a trpically stocked item at least not that I know of, though if they were I'd trade out HMIs for them almost every time (of comparable output, obviously).

If this feature I have goes for this summer, and that's kind of a big if at present, as most of it is remote at night, I'm going to do my best to get a slosh of hives on the

[Keith Walters]

 

I'd love to know how, considering it's basically the same physics. Still, I am at NAB so I can probably wander over and ask them!

I thought they worked on the same principle as a plasma display, but using a white phosphor. In other words, a flat fluorescent tube.

Ironically, they were originally developed as a backlight for LCD panels :-)

[Mark Kenfield]

From memory, they fire microwaves at a little gas capsule (the bulb), and that excites the gas and generates a bunch of light.

[Stuart Allman]

Andrew,

 

I would highly encourage you to try the Hive lights before forming an opinion. I think in general they work very well and provide much better color rendering than HMI and many types of LEDs. The Hive rep claimed that the 250W Bee/Wasp outputs as much light as a 400W HMI, but I've never verified the photometrics. I find they are more than bright enough for indoor lighting and occasionally throwing a light through a window. The lights also have just enough color temperature variation to mix with most daylight times and even very blue moonlight. They don't work well for mixing with tungsten.

 

The latest mechanical design of the lights are just as practical as any HMI. There's nothing too unfamiliar about them. Head, ballast, cables, on/off switch.

 

I think their biggest issue is that they aren't as-available in rental houses outside major markets.

 

Stuart Allman

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illuma.blogspot.com

[andrew ward]

If I say it, its my opinion.

 

Every company would do that. Otherwise there wouldnt be so many lights. Thered just be the one company with great design cornering the market.

 

I have zero experience with Hive. You can see from their last iteration of form factor that it has weird design.

 

Theres a reason no one has these lights.

 

I hope theyre amazing and come down in price so I can get some. Im generally just saying "isnt it a pity that every time you see an exciting light that is supposed to be a dimmable source with no burn time thats lightweight and punchy it turns iut to not be the back saver you hoped it was". I want it more than you. I gotta use it every day.

[Stuart Allman]

I know at least three people who have them and use them as their main lights. Maybe they just don't have an equipped rental house near you.

 

They don't dim. You have to use standard Arri/Mole scrims or ND gels to dim them. The form factor is actually easier to handle than most HMIs - you can grab the housing without gloves (but not the heat sink!). They fit standard Arri barn doors. They're also lightweight - at least the 250W versions are. Once you see them in person they'll probably seem pretty obvious and less "weird."

 

I'll be producing a tutorial on the plasma lights for a local rental house this summer. I might post a link here if no one objects to it as advertising - which it isn't meant to be.

 

Stuart Allman

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illuma.blogspot.com

[Mark Kenfield]

I'll be producing a tutorial on the plasma lights for a local rental house this summer. I might post a link here if no one objects to it as advertising - which it isn't meant to be.

 

Stuart Allman

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illuma.blogspot.com

 

 

Please do! It's bloody hard to get a good look at lighting exotica down here at the end of the world.

[andrew ward]

They dont dim???

Wtf?

Whats the point then?

Its just an hmi that uses less power? Lame.

[andrew ward]

Hey Kenfield. You should do gear reviews.

Its so hard to find a review of say an Area 48 used by someone who knows what theyre doing and compared with similar tools. All these online video reviews where they meter lights etc are useless.

Build your website and reel with the results.

Id do it but I think its all wank.

[andrew ward]

Allman, thats good if you like them.

Glad they do what you want.

[Leonardo Brocato]

mh....you can't live without dim?

and this is a problem........there are a lot of good old ways to take down a lamp...

i think that more power and less wattage could be the future.....with the camera stepping to 800 iso.

I don't know the quality of the plasma light because in my county no trace at all but i think could be the future....

 

leonardo brocato

gaffer rome italy

www.loudphoto.it

[Stuart Allman]

The rep explained it to me that when you try to dim plasma lights they shift extremely blue - just like a tungsten light shifts extremely red/orange when you dim it. That's why they provide standard circular single/double wire scrims. I've never dimmed an HMI. I've always had to use them at full blast and just swap out the power of the fixture when I wanted less output.

 

If you want a dimmable light, use LEDs. That's what I do. Although I've only found two brands so far that give me "sufficient" skin tone rendering. I haven't tried the BBS products yet.

 

The reps were very open to demo-ing equipment, at least for us. As seen on this forum, they definitely have new technology trust issues to overcome and are actively trying. Maybe you can get a demo unit sent to you(?)

 

Stuart Allman

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illuma.blogspot.com

[andrew ward]

If its not brighter than an hmi and it doesnt dim I dont see the point.

Maybe its cause youre on american power system?

Something thats as bright as a 1.2 but uses less power makes little difference to me.

[JD Hartman]

Can you explain your need for a dimmable light? What's wrong with wire scrims, nets or ND gels? Except for LEDs, what type of light doesn't have an undesirable color temp shift?

[Adrian Sierkowski]

It makes a huge difference no matter where you are with voltage as you generally can at least double the number of lights you can run 1) on the same power run, or 2) on the same breaker. This is kind a big deal in terms of laying down cable. Also you genny's will get smaller if you happen to be using the same amount of light.

 

This is film, let's stop pretending that things don't make a difference and that for any unit, there is some kinda gotcha. It wasn't really until LEDs when we even really could dim without a color shift-- and the trade off we got for that is rather crap output in terms of both quantity (for price) and quality (with few exceptions).

[Mark Kenfield]

If its not brighter than an hmi and it doesnt dim I dont see the point.

Maybe its cause youre on american power system?

Something thats as bright as a 1.2 but uses less power makes little difference to me.

 

It's equivalent to a 2.5k HMI apparently, not a 1.2k.

 

We have the advantage here in 240v land that we can already run a 2.5k HMI off a conventional household socket. The big deal with these (as Adrian points out) is that you could run two off the same circuit (which could be a massive boon for cable runs depending on the location), and being able to run two '2.5k HMIs' off a single little suitcase gennie for night exteriors? That's a BIG deal.

 

I also think the lack of dimming is less of an issue with these because I find it's very rare that (when I'm using a 2.5k HMI) I want to dim at all. Firing one through a window during daytime hours? You want every lumen you can get. Setting up a large booklight? You want every lumen you can get. Lighting up an acre's worth of location for a night exterior scene? You want every lumen you can get. Balancing a daylight interior for the outside ambience? Every lumen you can get.

 

And if, for some reason, you absolutely need less output? Just drop in a scrim.

 

I really can't see any obvious downsides. It's more affordable than a 2.5k HMI. Being solid state it should be significantly more reliable than HMI, there's no flicker issues whatsoever for highspeed work, you get twice the lumen efficacy of HMI, you get a fuller spectrum (and therefore better colour) than HMI, and you can go from something like 4000k right up to 7000k with full output and no need to dick around with 1/2 CTB or 1/2 CTO to do so.