Moviecam SL "MOV" error

[Aaron Michael Rich]

Hey guys,

 

was out in the field over the weekend shooting on my SL and once I had everything ready to go, the camera and mag never got up to speed at all. When I would run the camera, it would just slowly move film and never show anything above 0 fps in the display. The green led would come on, and the red led just below FPS would flash quickly. The FPS display would always read 0 then flash MOV and the camera would cease running.

 

I'm just wondering if the battery isn't out putting enough power to run the camera or if there is a bigger issue here.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

 

 

 

[Kenny N Suleimanagich]

Did you check it against another battery? It sounds like it's stuck in a "phase" setting.

[Aaron Michael Rich]

Hey Kenny, at the moment I do only have one battery block. I'm gonna get in touch with a rental house and get a second and see if that makes the difference.

 

If it is stuck in a phase setting, would hooking it up to a new battery solve this problem?

[Kenny N Suleimanagich]

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar enough with those to tell you. Dom Jeager on this forum might be able to lend some insight to that end.

[Satsuki Murashige]

I haven't seen that error with my SL yet. It sounds like a power issue, probably low voltage.

 

I had an error where the camera simply wouldn't run at all after threading. The frame counter read 'MOT'. I removed the body's side panel and carefully re-seated the electronic connector and the problem went away. I had to do this on two separate occasions.

 

Obviously, you don't want to do that with a rental camera. You may want to ask the technicians to check the connector though. It's the little black one to the far right, near the bottom of the camera. It plugs into three pins on the side door, but it's not a secure fit and can easily come loose. The mirror shutter has to be rotated out of the way for safety whenever the side cover is removed.

 

 

*Sorry, I just re-read you post and see that this is your personal camera. We should start a Moviecam user group!

[Aaron Michael Rich]

Ok awesome. I'm heading to my rental house to cross check with another battery. I'll keep you guys posted.

 

Thanks for the help thus far!

[Satsuki Murashige]

If you don't mind, which rental house do you use? I like to keep a list of the ones that will work with owner ops. Some of the bigger ones won't give you the time of day...

[Satsuki Murashige]

Dumb question, but you were pressing the red run button and not the black multi-function (phase) button, right? Because if you push the phase button, this is exactly what the camera is supposed to do.

 

[Satsuki Murashige]

Welp, now I've seen this issue first hand. Shot a camera test/30 spec commercial spot with my SL today and ran into this issue right at the end of the day. Shooting 1x 400' roll, interiors and exteriors with the camera working fine. Got down to the last 30', went back outside to shoot one last exterior shot and the motor jammed.

 

I checked the Cineblock battery voltage, totally fine. Tried the second 24v XLR3 output connector. Then tried repatching the battery cable, turning off and unpatching all of the power accessories including the tap, even removed the body's side cover and re-seated the power connector. No love.

 

I then tried to manually inch the movement with the film threaded and power unplugged. The movement was totally locked up. I removed the mag and re-threaded the movement. Still won't inch or run. I removed the mag again and tried to inch the movement without film. It worked normally. Re-attached the battery and tried to run the camera without film. Still won't run.

 

I can only conclude that the camera motor must have seized up. The only thing I didn't try was replacing the camera fuse or the power cable for lack of spares on-hand. But power to the camera did not seem to be the issue. Seems like the camera needs to go in for service, as I am out of ideas. I've probably run a total of about 1200' of film through the camera over the last year.

 

Dom, if you have seen this before I sure would love to hear your thoughts!

[Dom Jaeger]

Hi Satsuki,

 

So did you get the same MOV error display as Aaron?

 

I don't recall that one, but it must be at least 4 years since I even looked at a Moviecam. It's not in the user manual, but there were error displays beyond what the manual mentions. Sounds like something to do with the movement, like maybe the microswitch that tells the camera the movement is open. Could be the microswitch or its circuit has a fault. (Or the movement is somehow being stopped from fully closing into the gate and triggering the microswitch.)

 

I'm not working at the rental house full time, so can't check a camera for a bit. I'm not even sure where my service notes for the SL are, everything got moved when I had a break last year. Such is the fate of obsolete technical knowledge..

 

It sounds like you have a different issue from Aaron though? The fact the movement wouldn't manually inch is weird. Otherwise there are plenty of reasons a camera might not run beyond just the motor being seized. All I can recommend really is to get it checked by someone familiar with Moviecams. Did you buy the camera from a rental house? Got a service history? Always handy to have.

 

I came across all sorts of faults with Moviecams over the years, they were fantastic designs but not as electronically robust as the Arricams they sired.

[Satsuki Murashige]

Thanks Dom. The error display I encountered is 'MOT'. I had assumed that Aaron just made a typo since 'MOV' wasn't in the manual, but I may have been too hasty there. Relevant pages in the manual here:

 

 

The only difference that I can see with Aaron's situation is that in my case the movement would not inch forward at all when when the run button was depressed. The take up motors in the mag would whine as usually when inching the movement, but the film would not actually move through the gate. The rest of the LED light patterns is the same as Aaron's situation.

 

I bought the camera from a reseller, but the camera package originally belonged to Oppenheimer Camera in Seattle. I spoke to Marty Oppenheimer and bought some extra parts from him. Looks like I should see if I can get that service history as well. And the name of his technician.

 

Thanks again Dom. It's a real shame that we are on opposite sides of the planet, otherwise I'd be throwing money at you right now!

[Tyler Purcell]

Wait, so without any film in the camera, if you turn the inching knob, the movement doesn't move?

 

If that's the case, I'd pull the movement out of the camera (very easy to do) and see if the movement spins on it's own.

[Satsuki Murashige]

The inching knob moves without film. When powered, the motor does not run, with or without film. With film and power, the motor will not manually inch. So basically, the motor does not move at all when powered.

[Tyler Purcell]

So if you load film, turn the inching knob, the mechanics all work fine. The sprockets drive the film and pull down claw works as well.

 

If that's the case, I'd first look at one of the switches. The upper and lower loop switch and the kill switch between the sprockets in the back.

 

I can't imagine it being a blown motor all of a sudden, that just doesn't make much sense.

 

Riddle me this... have you loaded some test stock to insure the mag is picking up slack properly? I had a corroded magazine drive connector on my camera. The mag would make all the proper noises, but it didn't have the torque to pull the film. The moment you put pressure on it, the motor would stop spinning. Though my OLDER body didn't report an error, maybe the newer ones do?

[Aaron Michael Rich]

Satsuki, so sorry to hear about this!

 

It's so frustrating and slightly dis-heartening to have troubles in time of needing the camera to perform.

 

The read out I'm getting, is in fact "MOV" (no typo.) Reading through the Moviecam Super America manual it's short for movement which as you said, isn't directly mentioned in the SL manual.

 

I've been on the road on another gig since the day of posting, so I have had no chance to dive into this at any capacity.

 

I'm home tomorrow and will be back on this issue on Monday. I'll stay current on this forum.

 

I hope some of the suggestions made here are the solution to both of our needs. Thank you to all who have offered your expertise and advice, it is much appreciated!

[Kenny N Suleimanagich]

Satsuki,

 

You might try giving Hand Held Films in NY a ring. They were / maybe still are a Moviecam house and their techs are very skilled folks.

 

I wonder if it’s just an old fuse that went bust. Who knows how long the camera was mothballed before you purchased it.

[Dom Jaeger]

The read out I'm getting, is in fact "MOV" (no typo.) Reading through the Moviecam Super America manual it's short for movement which as you said, isn't directly mentioned in the SL manual.

 

 

OK, that's what I thought, the old memory banks must still be operating.. ;)

 

So the first thing to check is that the movement block is fully home. The movement might be closed enough to trigger the switch, but not latched closed, so that it opens again when you try to run. (There is also a rear buckle switch that needs to be closed as well as the upper and lower sprocket guides, though from memory the camera wouldn't turn over at all if those micro-switches aren't closed. I don't remember if they elicit the same MOV error display.)

 

If you're game and want to check further, removing the movement is fairly easy, 2 screws plus one in the lever, but be very careful to align both the movement and lever positions with their mating components when you reseat it. If the screws feel spongy as you tighten them, stop and reseat the movement rather than keep tightening.

[Dom Jaeger]

Satsuki,

 

if you've had the MOT error before, and fixed it by reseating the connector, it's possible there is a broken wire in the connector cable, causing an intermittent fault. Those cables are susceptible to stress breaks.

 

I don't think a fuse is the problem.

[Satsuki Murashige]

I'd first look at one of the switches. The upper and lower loop switch and the kill switch between the sprockets in the back.

 

Do you mean the buckle trip? The thing that kills the motor in case you lose the film loop? It's definitely not that, the camera was properly threaded with the correct loop size. I've had that trip a few times before, the LCD Display reads 'B' when that happens.

 

Riddle me this... have you loaded some test stock to insure the mag is picking up slack properly? I had a corroded magazine drive connector on my camera. The mag would make all the proper noises, but it didn't have the torque to pull the film. The moment you put pressure on it, the motor would stop spinning. Though my OLDER body didn't report an error, maybe the newer ones do?

Yes, I'm pretty sure it's not the take up motor in the magazine. I've run scratch tests on all the 400' SL mags with dummy film with the side door and mag door open to inspect the entire film path while in operation.

 

The only trouble with take up motors I have had are with the 1000' Lightweight Compact Magazines running in reverse with the Speed Control Box. But the 400' SL mags all take up just fine. It also ran 370' of film perfectly just before this happened.

[Satsuki Murashige]

Satsuki, so sorry to hear about this!

 

It's so frustrating and slightly dis-heartening to have troubles in time of needing the camera to perform.

 

The read out I'm getting, is in fact "MOV" (no typo.) Reading through the Moviecam Super America manual it's short for movement which as you said, isn't directly mentioned in the SL manual.

 

I've been on the road on another gig since the day of posting, so I have had no chance to dive into this at any capacity.

 

I'm home tomorrow and will be back on this issue on Monday. I'll stay current on this forum.

 

I hope some of the suggestions made here are the solution to both of our needs. Thank you to all who have offered your expertise and advice, it is much appreciated!

Thanks Aaron, hope we can both get our cameras sorted out! They are too beautiful to become door stoppers. And thanks to everyone else who had offered their help, it really does mean a lot.

[Satsuki Murashige]

You might try giving Hand Held Films in NY a ring. They were / maybe still are a Moviecam house and their techs are very skilled folks.

 

Thanks Kenny, I will keep them in mind. So far, I have tried calling Panavision Woodland Hills and Keslow about the possibility of servicing my camera or any leads in finding an independent technician. Keslow was very nice but said they could not work on a non-consignment camera for liability reasons. Panavision never called me back. Not unexpected, but a bummer nonetheless. Marty Oppenheimer suggested Andree Martin at Clairmont, so that is who I will try next.

[Satsuki Murashige]

So the first thing to check is that the movement block is fully home. The movement might be closed enough to trigger the switch, but not latched closed, so that it opens again when you try to run. (There is also a rear buckle switch that needs to be closed as well as the upper and lower sprocket guides, though from memory the camera wouldn't turn over at all if those micro-switches aren't closed. I don't remember if they elicit the same MOV error display.)

 

If you're game and want to check further, removing the movement is fairly easy, 2 screws plus one in the lever, but be very careful to align both the movement and lever positions with their mating components when you reseat it. If the screws feel spongy as you tighten them, stop and reseat the movement rather than keep tightening.

Excellent, thank you Dom! You are always the hero. Will check the wiring that you mentioned as well.

[Tyler Purcell]

If I recall, with the movement not at home position and the camera trying to run, the display simply blinks. It acts as if the film has tripped one of the loop sensors.

 

Tho, it would make the most sense something simple like that could be the problem.

[Giray Izcan]

Try Visual Products as well. Ask for Peter. He is great.

[Satsuki Murashige]

If I recall, with the movement not at home position and the camera trying to run, the display simply blinks. It acts as if the film has tripped one of the loop sensors.

 

Tho, it would make the most sense something simple like that could be the problem.

Does it make sense though, given that I removed the mag and re-threaded the movement, not just once but twice? And then tried to run the camera without film? I closed the movement every time, so at least one of those the times should have been correct, no?