Moviecam SL "MOV" error

Satsuki Murashige · May 1, 2016

Try Visual Products as well. Ask for Peter. He is great.

Good call Giray, thanks!

Satsuki Murashige · May 1, 2016

Dom, does the SL actually have a rear buckle switch? The manual seems to suggest so, but I can only see the upper one.

Tyler Purcell · May 2, 2016

Does it make sense though, given that I removed the mag and re-threaded the movement, not just once but twice? And then tried to run the camera without film? I closed the movement every time, so at least one of those the times should have been correct, no?

No it doesn't make sense, but it's worth checking.

I found the safety switches to be kind of finicky, especially the one behind the sprockets that's suppose to be tripped when the film rolls out. That one can get stuck in an odd place very easily, simply due to age. It may seem centered, but the switch isn't clicked.

Dom Jaeger · May 2, 2016

OK, cracked out an SL, ah the smell of film cameras!

So I was wrong about the MOV error relating to the movement not being closed. As Tyler said, when the movement is open, or any of the buckle switches are triggered, or the upper and lower sprocket guides are open, the display blinks and reads "B".

The SL has 2 buckle switches at the top and bottom of the loop, and one at the back on the plate in the middle of the mag port, all of which are spring loaded, so you don't have to reset them. I was confusing it with the Compact which has a rear buckle switch that needs to be reset if it trips.

I'll need to dig out my service notes and see if I can find out what the MOV error means. Definitely something to do with the movement, but I can't remember what exactly. If Aaron or someone else has the Super America manual perhaps they can pass on what it says about it.

Satsuki, your issue is different, you got a MOT error display which relates to the motor and electronics. My first thought was that the connector cable could be faulty, since you've had that error come up before if I remember right?

Sorry for the misinformation earlier in the thread, it's been some years since I worked on these cameras. 35mm film shooting is pretty much dead and dusted down here unfortunately.

Satsuki Murashige · May 2, 2016

Sweet, thanks for the follow up Dom! I'll check out the rear buckle switch when I get home. I have a friend who is quite handy with wiring and electronics, so might be he would be the right person to check for faulty wiring.

Satsuki Murashige · May 4, 2016

Well, looks like my issue is solved. I tried removing the side panel and reseating all the electrical connectors again, and the camera now runs properly! So Dom was right, in my case it was an electrical issue.

Tyler Purcell · May 4, 2016

Nice! I like the simple solutions!

Kenny N Suleimanagich · May 4, 2016

Nice! Now keep us posted on your DIY video tap :)

Satsuki Murashige · May 4, 2016

Looks like I'm sending my cameras to Jorge Diaz Amador at Cinematechnic in LA next week: http://www.cinematechnic.com/

I'll ask him if he has any thoughts on the HD tap.

Satsuki Murashige · July 25, 2016

Just got my SL back from service in LA, so I thought I would write an update on the work done.

My camera technician Jorge replaced the loose electrical connector inside the side panel and lubricated the pins with a fluid that he says should solve any conductivity issues if the connector gets loose again.

He mentioned that the stainless steel 2.5mm body screws which I replaced the originals with will be more prone to head stripping, which they have already begun to do. He recommended that I switch from a ball-tip hex tool to straight-tip and go back to alloy screws, adding a little dab of oil on the heads to resist corrosion.

All the mag motors were tested for proper tension with a gauge. The 400' mags were perfect. The 1000' mag motors were not up to spec and were re-calibrated. Previously, they would not take up properly when running in reverse - that is fixed now.

The PL mount and ground glass focus were collimated and checked. Due to the SL's pressure plate design, apparently the FFD should be set to 52.00mm, not 51.98mm like most Arri cameras. The ground glass focus was apparently not easy to check as it sits at a slight angle, unlike Arri cameras. Jorge says he used some exotic collimator lenses to do the job.

The movement was not lubricated, as he has not yet found the right documentation for that. 'First, do no harm' being the operating motto. Dom, if you have any info on this it would be much appreciated. We have split a bottle of Arri chronosynth oil for our Arri cameras, doubtful if that can be used on Moviecam cameras.

The viewfinder was disassembled and lubricated to remove a bump in the diopter adjustment ring. Before, turning the diopter resulted in the image moving slightly due to some optics shifting around. It is very smooth now.

Jorge was not able to adjust the viewfinder to see a bit more of the S35 ground glass. Unfortunately, this appears to be a limitation of the SL viewfinding system. The camera left frame line is just visible but there is no look-around. When the PL mount is centered for Academy 35 and a N35 ground glass is used, the frame lines are also centered and look-around is available on both sides.

Power draw was checked with a power supply, 0.8A running 24fps (19.2w @ 24v) without mag or film. The B&W tap added about 0.3A. The camera should pull 2.5A with 400' of film at 24fps, according to the manual. The internal fuse is 6.3A. That leaves 3.8A for accessories, just enough for a Preston MDR3 and a TVLogic 5.6 (or a Teradek Bolt Pro 300). If you use the TVL with it's own batteries, that frees up 1A.

We also discussed the possibility of updating the video tap to HD. I think it is very possible to do for my camera, as the existing B&W tap uses a machine vision board camera. There are several HD-SDI board cameras available which could possibly fit into the existing housing with minimal work - the trick will be to match the sensor size to the existing camera so the lens and field-of-view are not affected.

On the plus side, the board cameras all seem to be fairly standardized in terms of size and connector placement. They would only really need hot and ground wires soldered in, and an ultra-thin jumper SDI cable to move the BNC connector to a convenient place. To have full control over the camera menus, the existing tap housing might need to be milled out and a rubber gasket added to accommodate the small plastic control pad that comes with the camera. But it might also be possible to just set the camera menus once and then hide the control pad inside the housing, avoiding any machining.

There are also new(er) high resolution lenses available in C or CS mount which would offer a better image, but it would be tricky to make them fit into the existing housing and maintain manual iris control through the housing, keep the same field-of-view, stay within minimum focus, and avoid too much distortion.

Ideally, a manual iris, macro prime lens with low distortion would be best. I have a few in mind, but it all depends on whether the original tap camera has a 1/2" or 1/3" sensor. All the modern HD-SDI machine vision cameras are 1/3", most of the old tap cameras were 1/2". Most of the modern C/CS mount lenses cover 1/2" but do not have macro. I've only found one with an MOD of 4" which I'm hoping is close enough.

Anyway, it seems like Jorge will need to acquire more workspace before he can start on a project like this. But I made him aware that there is a potential market for these HD taps, if they can be made affordably. I know that he will be making them first for the medical 2C cameras which do not have optical viewfinders. Probably with a camera that already has a housing, rather than a plain board camera like I am planning on using.

I would recommend emailing him if you are interested in buying one - the more orders he gets, the cheaper they will be: http://cinematechnic.com/contact-cinematechnic.

Dom Jaeger · July 26, 2016

Hi Satsuki,

Good to hear you've got Jorge on the case, he's a top notch technician from all I've read of his online postings and his very informative website.

The oil for Moviecam movements is the same as the one for Arricam movements, should be available from Arri.

Good luck with the tap!

Satsuki Murashige · July 26, 2016

Thanks Dom!

Would you happen to know if the Arricam/Moviecam oil is the same as the Arriflex 2C/3/435/235 oil? Apparently, it took a lot of effort for Jorge to even get a tiny bottle of the latter from Arri, and they know him personally. I doubt I'd get anywhere with such a request.

Dom Jaeger · July 26, 2016

I'm pretty sure the Arricam oil is different to the Chronosynth 1/8 used in those cameras, or PDB 38 which was another Arri oil. I've just asked the senior tech at Arri Australia about it, will let you know when I get an answer.

Satsuki Murashige · July 26, 2016

Appreciate it, thank you!

Dom Jaeger · July 29, 2016

Hi Satsuki,

I managed to source some more Arricam oil since my syringe was getting very low. It's definitely different to Chronosynth 1/8 which is golden in colour and viscous, whereas Arricam oil is clear and very light. Also different to PDB 38 which is light but more yellow. There is no manufacturer's name or identifying label other than "Arricam Oil".

If Jorge really can't source any from his Arri contacts, get him to shoot me a message via my cinetinker email and I'll send him some.

Satsuki Murashige · July 29, 2016

Perfect, thank you Dom. I think Arri must have sent us Arricam oil rather than chronosynth 1/8 then because Jorge mentioned that his old bottle of oil was much more viscous and dark in color than what they sent him. Will check in with him. Thanks again!

victor huey · August 7, 2017

i have two moviecam compact mk 1 cameras, one has a cinema electornics module replacing the OEM one. The other is original, but is powered via four pin. The cinema electronics is three pin. I am not sure how much voltage each requires or the proper wiring?

Dom Jaeger · August 7, 2017

Moviecams are 24V cameras, at least the SL and Compact MkII are, I would assume the Mk1 is the same.

We talked about power socket wiring in this thread:

http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=65058

The original Moviecam wiring was pin 1 ground and pins 2 and 4 +24V, but some rental houses altered the wiring to avoid mix ups with the 12V standard power plug which was a 4 pin XLR wired to pins 1 and 4. You may need to remove the side cover to check the wiring.

The 24V (non-Panavision) standard was a 3 pin XLR wired pin 1 ground and pin 3 +24V, which is how I would assume the CE module is wired.