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connor denning

What camera should I use?

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To Macks comment about the built in audio, you'd be shocked how bad it is on most DSLR's. The 5DMKII and 7D I've worked with quite a bit, the fan noise was so loud, I couldn't use pluraleye's to sync the audio in post. The pocket actually has lousy built in mic's, they're really atrocious.

I guess I was going off of the newer Canon DSLR's that were designed after their camera caught on specifically for video. However I've heard the $100 RODE video mics and it's really difficult for me to see how something that's free could be worse lol.

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I know I won't be happy with it in the end but until I actually get some money to spend I'm going to try to stick with it. I Need to buy A nicer computer first or there's no point, I can't edit much of anything on this without it crashing, thats on a clean OS install, plus It just doesn't even work well for web browsing. That's what happens when you buy a 500 dollar laptop at best buy sense they introduced touch screens even if mine doesn't have one. they cut the Mic jack blue tooth and the hard drive wants to pop out of the body cause they made the cavity slightly too small.

Yea, this is the problem with inexpensive computers and it's one of the reasons I don't own PC's. I'd much rather spend the money up front and have something that will last me 5 years, then keep spending money upgrading/updating something that even at the beginning was old technology. I mean look at me... my 17" Macbook pro is from 2009 and my Mac Pro Tower is from 2008 and both work great, I can edit RED 4k full raster natively on the Mac Pro and can even playback Pro Res 4k on my laptop flawlessly. This year I plan on "upgrading" to a 2013 laptop and 2010 desktop (with newer processors), both minor price increases, but huge performance gains. That's the great thing about owning a mac, you'll always get money for your old one, which helps fund the new one.

 

You can get a 2012-2013 NON-RETINA 15", 2.6ghz i7 quad core processor and 16gb memory Macbook Pro for between 600 - 700 used. That machine will last for another 5 years no problem. Parts are becoming cheaper to buy, so even if you damage it, the cost to replace them isn't bad. Heck, even apple only charges $315 to fix ANY problem with a laptop. So even if you were in a bind and the machine totally died, they'd fix anything and everything for $315, not bad. Plus, that's the most current machine you can run DOUBLE internal drives with. There is a kit which removes the optical drive and puts a 2.5" drive in it's place. It's friggin' awesome because you can run one drive for your media and one drive for your boot. This means you're truly portable. Plus if I hadn't said this before, this machine has all the ports, USB3, Thunderbolt, Firewire 800, 10GB ethernet, 1/8" stereo I/O ports AND SD card reader. They even made a 1920x1080 resolution version, specifically for editing people, so pixel per pixel is identical to HD. My 17" laptop is the same way, which is really cool for editing and displaying content to clients.

 

Personally, I don't like laptops for editing. I think they're a waste of money because they will never be optimal. It's way cheaper (over the long term) to invest in a desktop anyway because they will last ALOT longer then a laptop will. The final generation 2010 Mac Pro 5,1 towers are very easily upgradable to the more recent Xenon processors, new/modern graphics cards and ultra fast I/O boards. You can buy a 2.66ghz, 12 core, 32gb memory version on ebay for $1200 any day of the week. It will work flawlessly from day one and as time goes on, you can spend money upgrading it. The great thing is, the stock parts have value, so you can always sell them to help recoup the upgrades. So things like a decent graphics card, faster processors and more storage, aren't going to be overly expensive, especially if you buy them used. I buy all of my parts used on ebay or from local retailers and they work great. The "ultimate" upgrade package; Intel X5690 double 6 core 3.45ghz processors, GTX980 6GB or Titan 12GB graphics card, 4x4TB 7200 RPM desktop storage (internal raid), 500gb SSD boot drive and USB ULTRA card... probably run around $1500 if you do all the work yourself and sell the stock components on ebay.

 

I know both of those things are probably WAY over your budget AND over-kill for the kind of work you do. However, if you really want to be future proof, you have to make a pretty heavy investment.

 

I guess I was going off of the newer Canon DSLR's that were designed after their camera caught on specifically for video. However I've heard the $100 RODE video mics and it's really difficult for me to see how something that's free could be worse lol.

We've talked about the Rode mic before and mine is very acceptable. It all comes down to the preamp quality on the camera at that point. So unless you've heard the mic raw through an excellent preamp, it's hard to tell how good it is. I've done that test as I have good preamp's, so I know the mic is good.

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We've talked about the Rode mic before and mine is very acceptable. It all comes down to the preamp quality on the camera at that point. So unless you've heard the mic raw through an excellent preamp, it's hard to tell how good it is. I've done that test as I have good preamp's, so I know the mic is good.

I'm sure it can get passable through a good pre, but just about any XLR mic can do that. I'm not sure if Mr. Thousand-Dollar-Budget will have good portable pres available to him.

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I'm sure it can get passable through a good pre, but just about any XLR mic can do that. I'm not sure if Mr. Thousand-Dollar-Budget will have good portable pres available to him.

Well yea, that's the big problem. So it really doesn't matter what mic you use, as long as it can pickup what you're trying to get. Internal mic's really suck at that.

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I feel like the discussion here should not be what camera he should try to buy instead of the one he owns, or how to get his cinema setup on one grand, especially if his computer can not even handle basic editing. I feel like at this phase the encouragement should be to just get out there and keep shooting. Use the camera and mic you have, find other friends with equipment to help, but shoot shoot shoot. Make little movies even if you are using a phone for the camera. There is a lot to be gained from practice, both in your ability to pick angles and lighting and setups to story telling and editing and script writing. You do not need a big fancy camera for that, and I feel like you might be stuck on the quality of the image and not the story, which as film makers, cinematographers and more is our primary responsibility. It has been demonstrated many times that if you are telling a compelling story, and you know your craft, it doesn't matter what camera you shoot with.

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Yep, I agree Shawn, especially if there is already a camera in play. I mean I'd love to upgrade myself as well, but can't afford it, so I'm not going to do anything at this juncture in time and keep shooting with what I've already got.

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Yea, this is the problem with inexpensive computers and it's one of the reasons I don't own PC's. I'd much rather spend the money up front and have something that will last me 5 years, then keep spending money upgrading/updating something that even at the beginning was old technology. I mean look at me... my 17" Macbook pro is from 2009 and my Mac Pro Tower is from 2008 and both work great, I can edit RED 4k full raster natively on the Mac Pro and can even playback Pro Res 4k on my laptop flawlessly. This year I plan on "upgrading" to a 2013 laptop and 2010 desktop (with newer processors), both minor price increases, but huge performance gains. That's the great thing about owning a mac, you'll always get money for your old one, which helps fund the new one.

 

You can get a 2012-2013 NON-RETINA 15", 2.6ghz i7 quad core processor and 16gb memory Macbook Pro for between 600 - 700 used. That machine will last for another 5 years no problem. Parts are becoming cheaper to buy, so even if you damage it, the cost to replace them isn't bad. Heck, even apple only charges $315 to fix ANY problem with a laptop. So even if you were in a bind and the machine totally died, they'd fix anything and everything for $315, not bad. Plus, that's the most current machine you can run DOUBLE internal drives with. There is a kit which removes the optical drive and puts a 2.5" drive in it's place. It's friggin' awesome because you can run one drive for your media and one drive for your boot. This means you're truly portable. Plus if I hadn't said this before, this machine has all the ports, USB3, Thunderbolt, Firewire 800, 10GB ethernet, 1/8" stereo I/O ports AND SD card reader. They even made a 1920x1080 resolution version, specifically for editing people, so pixel per pixel is identical to HD. My 17" laptop is the same way, which is really cool for editing and displaying content to clients.

 

Personally, I don't like laptops for editing. I think they're a waste of money because they will never be optimal. It's way cheaper (over the long term) to invest in a desktop anyway because they will last ALOT longer then a laptop will. The final generation 2010 Mac Pro 5,1 towers are very easily upgradable to the more recent Xenon processors, new/modern graphics cards and ultra fast I/O boards. You can buy a 2.66ghz, 12 core, 32gb memory version on ebay for $1200 any day of the week. It will work flawlessly from day one and as time goes on, you can spend money upgrading it. The great thing is, the stock parts have value, so you can always sell them to help recoup the upgrades. So things like a decent graphics card, faster processors and more storage, aren't going to be overly expensive, especially if you buy them used. I buy all of my parts used on ebay or from local retailers and they work great. The "ultimate" upgrade package; Intel X5690 double 6 core 3.45ghz processors, GTX980 6GB or Titan 12GB graphics card, 4x4TB 7200 RPM desktop storage (internal raid), 500gb SSD boot drive and USB ULTRA card... probably run around $1500 if you do all the work yourself and sell the stock components on ebay.

 

I know both of those things are probably WAY over your budget AND over-kill for the kind of work you do. However, if you really want to be future proof, you have to make a pretty heavy investment.

 

 

We've talked about the Rode mic before and mine is very acceptable. It all comes down to the preamp quality on the camera at that point. So unless you've heard the mic raw through an excellent preamp, it's hard to tell how good it is. I've done that test as I have good preamp's, so I know the mic is good.

I allready plan on getting a desktop I don't like laptops perdiod, but for now it's what I have, in the next month I hope to get one If I have the time.

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I feel like the discussion here should not be what camera he should try to buy instead of the one he owns, or how to get his cinema setup on one grand, especially if his computer can not even handle basic editing. I feel like at this phase the encouragement should be to just get out there and keep shooting. Use the camera and mic you have, find other friends with equipment to help, but shoot shoot shoot. Make little movies even if you are using a phone for the camera. There is a lot to be gained from practice, both in your ability to pick angles and lighting and setups to story telling and editing and script writing. You do not need a big fancy camera for that, and I feel like you might be stuck on the quality of the image and not the story, which as film makers, cinematographers and more is our primary responsibility. It has been demonstrated many times that if you are telling a compelling story, and you know your craft, it doesn't matter what camera you shoot with.

my budget for a PC is around a 1000-1500. I've already done 5-6 shorts on point and shots Came out pretty good except the actors I had in them, but what can I say they where free. They came out good But I'm Looking to find my visual stylail that can help tell the stories I want to tell.

Edited by connor denning

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You can get a pretty good computer for 1500 bux, but if you're really going to edit, I highly suggest buying a Mac Pro tower and getting that native prores support, 64bit native processing and double processors, designed for multithreaded task loads.

 

I was recently involved in a geekbench test of a modern pc workstation vs 2010 Mac Pro doing the same 64bit multithreaded tasks and the difference was night and day, the Mac Pro was way faster.

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You can get a pretty good computer for 1500 bux, but if you're really going to edit, I highly suggest buying a Mac Pro tower and getting that native prores support, 64bit native processing and double processors, designed for multithreaded task loads.

 

I was recently involved in a geekbench test of a modern pc workstation vs 2010 Mac Pro doing the same 64bit multithreaded tasks and the difference was night and day, the Mac Pro was way faster.

I'm a linux guy.

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I'm a linux guy.

Well that complicates things tremendously. Everyone has moved away from Linux in post production because of the lack of driver support for modern codec's, graphics cards and volume formats. So even if you had a super fast computer, it wouldn't matter because the driver's aren't written to work with the hardware in the same way mac OS or Windows does it.

 

I know there are some great GUI's available for Linux, none of them have the support necessary for speed with a standard post production workflow.

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I'll likely buy a windows install for it. Dose eos m do raw continuous or it limited to like 450 frames, That at this fps and resolution it dose, or dose that, no seems to say the same thing.

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The newest DSLR's I don't think have that problem anymore. The older one's are limited to 7 - 9 minutes depending on your luck of the day.

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The newest DSLR's I don't think have that problem anymore. The older one's are limited to 7 - 9 minutes depending on your luck of the day.

dose the eos m count as newer?

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Well, the EOS M is a different style of camera, it's a mirrorless design. So I assume it uses entirely different electronics, but I just don't know.

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I believe they all share the same bit rate and 8 bit 4:2:0 recording.

 

Magic Lantern does work on almost all of them, but there are restrictions, like only getting 720P out of it.

 

In my eyes, the low bit rate is only 1/3rd of the problem. The 8 bit, 4:2:0 is the other and the final problem is the horrible old school codec.

 

Even if you use an external HDMI recorder, most of the DSLR's have 8 bit outputs.

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You can get a pretty good computer for 1500 bux, but if you're really going to edit, I highly suggest buying a Mac Pro tower and getting that native prores support, 64bit native processing and double processors, designed for multithreaded task loads.

 

I was recently involved in a geekbench test of a modern pc workstation vs 2010 Mac Pro doing the same 64bit multithreaded tasks and the difference was night and day, the Mac Pro was way faster.

That has to be on FCXP. I have seen tests going the other way on Premiere. A $1000 pc outplayed a $3000 Mac pro. Now, I work on PC, but I have nothing against Macs, but to say that Macs are better in every situation, might be misleading. Usually, I think you will get more performance per dollar on PCs.

 

Also, I just checked some videos of the Pentax K01. I don't believe your money is well spent on a new camera. A t51 or 7d is not going to be a whole lot better than the Pentax. I think money is better spent on rig equipment like a Glidecam, a decent tripod, ND filter etc. That equipment usually costs the same or more than the camera. Heck, good glass is also equally important.

 

It's the old boring answer, but good films doesn't just come out of the camera. It's the people behind the camera.

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I'm a linux guy.

 

For linux there's essentially 2... well... maybe just one... Lightworks that has reasonable 'pro' capability. One can use Blender as a video editor... but for the open source community video editing is abysmal.

 

I use Photoshop in Mac OS X vs GIMP on anything, when I need to get photo work done... likewise for Premiere+AfterEffects and now + Audition for live motion picture processing.

 

I use linux exclusively for my day job... but I use my Mac as a multi-window terminal device for accessing my linux boxes to do software development.

 

While I've ported the X11 graphics+windowing systems to some set of ancient hardware in the olden days... I've never been as impressed with the windowing environments on Linux vs Apple's windowing system on Macs.

 

Microsoft Windows... for anything... you've got to be kidding me...

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Microsoft Windows... for anything... you've got to be kidding me...

 

This kind of bull headed statement is really not helpful at all. I can only assume your information is incredibly dated. I work in a multi OS environment with both Mac and Windows, and have had no issues with either platform in regards to content creation, editing, grading etc. At no point has either offered me something remarkably better than the other to cause me to want to stick primarily with one platform or the other. In this day and age Windows machines (Properly built) are more than capable of supporting a post production environment. So it really just comes down to preference, and that is fine, everyone uses what they like and what they are comfortable with.

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They are really quite similar. They have the exact same sensor size.

What I should have said is. Because the t5i can write to the card faster and the processor is better, and more features are running on magic lantern, and higher bit rates and resolutions in raw are possible, if your to shoot things like this with as much detal as humanly possible dose it make a difference?

 

 

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Not really. It's so subtle that it's unlikely anyone will notice. The detail on these DSLRs is quite poor anyways, as the image is soft. As I said, and which you seem to ignore; it's not worth the upgrade from your current camera. The only worthy upgrade would be GH4, BM(P)CC, a7s, C100.

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on magic lantern dose it allow lower frame rates in an arbtary way like (15, 16, 17 fps)? and dose it let you have a longer exposure like 1/16 sec rather than 1/24 or 1/30. I'm not not talking about time lapse, I'm talking about letting more light in on a video with actors, that doesn't have fast movement ( think candle light scenes in Barry Lyndon), witch where obliviously shot at 15-18 fps.

 

 

expeshilly this last one.

 

 

It's filmed just above the point where it will look choppy.

Edited by connor denning

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