Matth Bounce/ Poly Bounce/ Grifflon

[Kenny Keeler]

Hey All,

 

This may be a random and or simple question. But recently when talking to a few DPs they have mentioned using large Matth Bounce for a night exterior scenes etc. I tried to google this to research and see what this Matth is all about but not much comes up. I did have poly bounce come up. I have used Black and white Grifflon before but never Matth or Poly Bounce.

 

Any buddy know the technical differences between the 3? How reflective is one compared to the other etc.

 

Thanks! I really wanna know what these tools can offer.

[David Mullen ASC]

Probably "matte" not "matth" unless they meant "Matthews" which is just a grip equipment company.

 

Oh, I see that Matthews calls their silver lightweight board "Matthboard"... Never heard the term before:

http://www.filmtools.com/mse-119728-expendable-matthboard-fill.html

 

It's just shiny silver on one side and stipled silver on the other, the stipled silver would be similar the Roscoflex material:

https://www.rosco.com/filters/cinegel.cfm?CategoryID=7&menuReturn=film

[David Mullen ASC]

Beadboard, called "poly" in other countries (for polystyrene), is very soft as a surface though often people tape something to one side of beadboard for a different surface, could be stipled silver, could be shinier white board, could be muslin cloth, etc. 8' X 4' tends to be the largest possible size.

 

Grifflon is a tough shiny material similar to a tarp used to protect something from the elements. See:

http://www.theragplace.com/bounces.html

[JD Hartman]

"Matth Bounce", Matthews (MSE) part #319011, other might call this a black and white untrabounce.

[Vivek Venkatraman]

David,

 

In your opinion other than thermacol [which I think is polystrene] What would be a could reflective surface that can bounce sunlight without creating a hot spot ?

Does Muslin do the trick ? Or would you recommend ultrabounce ? Also is this the same bleached Muslin that is available in the Lee filter kit ?

[David Mullen ASC]

Muslin would be the softest bounce but UltraBounce is almost as soft but more durable.

[David Mullen ASC]

http://www.filmtools.com/12x12maulcat.html

 

Yes, it looks like Matthews likes to stick the prefix "matth" over their versions of common grip products, so MatthBounce is UltraBounce.

[JD Hartman]

Ultrabounce is actually a trademarked term owned by The Rag Place. So Matthews and others can't use it as a product name.

[Kenny Keeler]

"Matth Bounce", Matthews (MSE) part #319011, other might call this a black and white untrabounce.

 

http://www.filmtools.com/12x12maulcat.html

 

Yes, it looks like Matthews likes to stick the prefix "matth" over their versions of common grip products, so MatthBounce is UltraBounce.

 

Ooooh ok that make sense! Thanks guys for the links and info!! A case of the multi named item :lol:

 

David have you used Claycote before?

[David Mullen ASC]

Not sure there is much difference between UltraBounce and Claycoat, again, maybe it's just a trademark issue... A grip could answer this better than me. At some point, if the surface is white and matte enough, which you choose depends more on other factors, like how tough does it need to be, will it get wet, does the wind have to pass through it, does it need to be able to be pulled tight on a frame without visible seams because it will be photographed as a white background?

[JD Hartman]

About halfway down this page: http://www.advantagegrip.com/fabric%20specifications.htm

Apparently Claycoat is a less efficient bounce than Untrabounce, Mathbounce, Superbounce, etc.

When would you ever pull out the Griffolyn instead of one of the above?

Edited June 16, 2016 by JD Hartman

[David Mullen ASC]

"Less efficient" could mean that it is softer, more matte, or it may just mean that it isn't as white.

[Alexandros Angelopoulos Apostolos]

Has anyone ever used linen in the film industry?

[David Mullen ASC]

Sure, I use cheap white bedsheets to bounce light off of, I drape them over furniture, tape them to walls or ceilings, etc.

[John Holland]

David Watkin did this 40/50 years ago bounced and in front of Brute Arcs.

[David Mullen ASC]

You just have to keep in mind that a household bedsheet hasn't been treated with any fire retardant so you want to be careful with how much light you pound into them.

[Kenny Keeler]

Not sure there is much difference between UltraBounce and Claycoat, again, maybe it's just a trademark issue... A grip could answer this better than me. At some point, if the surface is white and matte enough, which you choose depends more on other factors, like how tough does it need to be, will it get wet, does the wind have to pass through it, does it need to be able to be pulled tight on a frame without visible seams because it will be photographed as a white background?

True, I mainly had this question pop up because I was surfing the internet and then talking to others I said to myself hmmm there are a ton of Rags that I have no idea what the heck they do ha. I mainly use Ultra bounce, Bead board, and Rosco Flex on bead board for my go to bounce surfaces. I guess the many list of different rags all have there uses depending on the circumstances. as well as their names depending on the company making them. Thanks again David for the the advice!

About halfway down this page: http://www.advantagegrip.com/fabric%20specifications.htm

Apparently Claycoat is a less efficient bounce than Untrabounce, Mathbounce, Superbounce, etc.

When would you ever pull out the Griffolyn instead of one of the above?

Thanks JD awesome website! Now thinking about it I remember a show I was on using Griff during a rain scene because it was a little more thick than ultra bounce even though they say that is rain proof as well. When I worked at a rental house I remember getting a wet Ultra Bounce back and it had dried in some places and stuck together and had a yellowing tint to the areas.

Has anyone ever used linen in the film industry?

Bed sheets are great if you get a really stark white ones they work great just for fill with out bounce a source directly into it. As David mentioned be carful getting lights to close they will go up in flames if they get too hot!

Or you could play around with different colors, say tan or something close to a burlap color if you are trying to get a warmer feel. Could be a poor mans version of unbleached muslin.

[JD Hartman]

 

Thanks JD awesome website! Now thinking about it I remember a show I was on using Griff during a rain scene because it was a little more thick than ultra bounce even though they say that is rain proof as well. When I worked at a rental house I remember getting a wet Ultra Bounce back and it had dried in some places and stuck together and had a yellowing tint to the areas.

 

I've used a Griffolyn outdoors as a rain cover for equipment carts. Ran out or tarps.

 

Had an Ultra/Math/Super bounce that also had a yellow discoloration. Thought it was some kind of stain or burn and it wouldn't wipe off with any kind of cleaner. Later the yellow just disappeared. Read somewhere that these rags can get a mildew stain if put away wet. Maybe it some type of growth and the sunlight killed it?

[James Cocker]

So...if Griffolyn was my only option for bounced light, what would be its drawbacks? The bounced light would be pretty hard - rippled reflections in the wind - noisy in the wind?

 

My goal is to keep my kit small and full of multi-use and easy to care for items. I'm guessing 8x8 Griff can be easy to clean. Is it larger than ultrabounce when folded?

 

Thanks, JC

[TJ Richardson]

I know there are dozens of posts in this thread, but as a key Grip of ten years now I’ll throw my two cents in.

When looking for a bounce material you want to consider the efficiency of the reflection vs the softness. 

poly/ styro/ bead board uses all the light that hits it, it absorbs, breaks up, and illuminates. It is very soft. But the caveat is that it isn’t great outside. It’s great for interiors and it is very versatile.

ultrabounce in my opinion is the exterior version of bead board. It allows no light to pass, yielding high efficiency but also softens it quite a bit. 
 

in toronto many years ago we would use a griff with a silk on top and call it a “poor man’s ultrabounce/claycoat”

muslin and magic cloth are a weird thing to talk about as bounce material because they allow so much transmission. If you can afford the stop loss and the backside spill isn’t a problem, they can be great. Especially if you put a griff, foamcore or silver behind them depending on the situation.

like all things gripping, the right call will depend on the situation 

[David Mullen ASC]

I find a lot of bounce materials to be too bright for fill outside -- sometimes if using a 4x4 beadboard, I will clip a 4x4 single net over it rather than back it off.  I once tried gray muslin but found it to have a slight magenta cast to it.  I sometimes use day blue muslin.

[Carlos Huanes]

On 10/6/2019 at 8:30 AM, David Mullen ASC said:

I find a lot of bounce materials to be too bright for fill outside -- sometimes if using a 4x4 beadboard, I will clip a 4x4 single net over it rather than back it off.  I once tried gray muslin but found it to have a slight magenta cast to it.  I sometimes use day blue muslin.

That's really interesting David. I was just thinking that you could use a blue muslin to fill in shadows. It would eat quite a bit of light which in that circumstance might be advantageous. Is that how you used the blue muslin or was it in a different context?