Old, classic film look

[Herb Montes]

Steven, here are links to several sites dedicated to processing your own movie film including one on making your own processing tank:

 

About processing

 

http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/hand/

 

Building a tank to process up to 200 feet of 16mm film

 

http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/hand/tank.html

 

Processing chemical formulas

 

http://lavender.fortunecity.com/lavender/5...sdeveloper.html

 

A homemade optical printer

 

http://www.city-net.com/%7Efodder/s8mm/optprint.html

 

Other sites

 

http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/hand/westerlund.html

 

http://www.siltec.co.uk/amovies/process/diydev.htm

 

http://www.geocities.com/gselinsky/

 

http://userwww.sfsu.edu/~ralph/process_site/contents.html

 

 

Downix, here are the links to pictures of the DeVry 35mm mechanism. This is the same one inside the DeVry "lunchbox" camera I've seen on eBay a few times. One of the pics is by the dealer the others are of my camera disassembled. Revising the price the dealer actually wants $30 per mechanism which are spring powered. I'll send you the contact information in an email.

 

http://img213.echo.cx/img213/1689/devrycam54al.jpg

 

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/4128/devrycam62pj.jpg

 

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/5701/devrycam78pk.jpg

 

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/2974/devrycam83cr.jpg

 

-Herb

[Nate Downes]

$30 + S&H I take it. How many does he have? 8)

[Herb Montes]

I think he has about 20 of these drives. I asked for two, one I'm adapting for animation the other to handcrank operation.

 

These drives are salvaged out of what were called "traffic cameras". These were mounted on poles at busy interesections to snap frames of traffic. Much like today's video camera surveillence of highways. Probably used around the 1930' to 1950's.

 

-Herb

[Steven Budden]

Herb,

 

Thanks for the info on home processing! That helps.

 

I'm interested in the Arkay G-3 daylight processing kit featured here...

 

 

http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/hand/beating.html

 

Does anyone know where I can find one? Or the website for that company in Hollywood?

 

Steven

[Nate Downes]

I was thinking 3-4 of them, then I'd have spare parts.

[Herb Montes]

Herb,

 

Thanks for the info on home processing! That helps.

 

I'm interested in the Arkay G-3 daylight processing kit featured here...

http://www.city-net.com/~fodder/hand/beating.html

 

Does anyone know where I can find one? Or the website for that company in Hollywood?

 

Steven

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Arkay is no longer in business but you can still find the tanks which are the rewind type. At a recent camera collector's show in Houston I saw an Arkay tank. I think the dealer wanted $40 for it. You will also see them on eBay at times. But if I were to get into processing my own films I would go with the spiral reel type like the ones sold by this Russian dealer:

 

http://www.geocities.com/cinetank/tank.htm

 

I would get the 16/35X100 Pro since it can do 100 feet of 16mm and 35mm film. The other tanks handle 30 to 50 feet of film on a reel. Suuposedly you get more consistent results with a spiral reel over a rewind tank like the Arkay.

[Nate Downes]

I own one of the russian tanks. Love the results. A bit of a challenge to load, however.

[Steven Budden]

Are those tanks, those spiral tanks daylight tanks? I like the idea of not having to work in complete darkness (since I don't technically have a dark room).

 

Steven

[Herb Montes]

Yes, the spiral tank like the Arkay is a daylight tank. The only time you need to use a darkroom is to load the film onto the reel. You can use a bathroom for that or a closet. The processing can then be done in daylight. Right now there are a couple of dealers selling Lomo spiral reel tanks on eBay (enter "processing tank" in the search box). These are the 30 foot capacity double regular 8mm tanks but they can also get you the Super 8mm and 16mm tanks for up to 50 and 100 foot capacity if you ask them.

 

When I was first shooting my animation on 16mm I did pencil tests on Plus-X and processed it to a negative with a cheap Kodak black and white chemical kit. I used a Yankee still film tank which could hold 6 feet of 16mm film on its spiral reel. The kit was easy to mix since it was liquid in foil packets. Just dilute in water to mix up a batch. I could process a negative strip in less than half an hour. This was handy in checking exposure and focus. I was using a non-reflex Bolex back then with a focusing prism in the gate to check the framing. Loading the camera with a short strip of film meant doing it in the dark. I usually did this at night.

 

Processing reversal is a bit more involved since it requires more steps. It's always best to start out in black and white to gain experience before trying out color. Supposedly the new color reversal stocks Kodak is putting out (to replace the old Ektachrome) would be easier to process with basic E-6 chemistry. Do some research first.

 

You could even try doing short strips like I did to practice processing. You can still get those Yankee tanks or find one made to process film from Minox cameras (they use 16mm wide film).

[Nate Downes]

emailed about the mechanisms, crossing fingers.

[Steven Budden]

emailed about the mechanisms, crossing fingers.

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Hmmm... I would like to start experimenting with processing in black and white. Reversal would be the way to go I guess?

 

Also, I can't find that tank anywhere. That 16 x 35 Pro? The brand is lomo right? Anywhere else to get them or just keep my eye on ebay?

 

Thanks!

 

Steven

[Nate Downes]

Check with Otto, he gets them from time to time.

 

And no, negative is easier to process honestly.

[Steven Budden]

Who is otto?

 

Hmmm... but the negative comes out as negative, right, and needs to be transfered to positive (1 extra step)?

 

Steven

[Nate Downes]

otto's website

 

But seriously, it is as many steps for reversal as it is negative, and with reversal, if you mess up, the whole thing is ruined, while with negative you get a chance to fix it later.

[Herb Montes]

"Otto" is Olexandr, the Russian dealer I mentioned earlier. I did email one of those eBay dealers about the Pro tanks so I'll let you know what I hear. Processing to a negative is easier since it is basically three steps. Reversal requires about twice as many steps so there is more chances to make a mistake. If you have never processed film before it is good to practice with still film first. I began processing film from my old 620 box camera years ago to learn how it's done.

[Steven Budden]

"Otto" is Olexandr, the Russian dealer I mentioned earlier.  I did email one of those eBay dealers about the Pro tanks so I'll let you know what I hear.  Processing to a negative is easier since it is basically three steps.  Reversal requires about twice as many steps so there is more chances to make a mistake.  If you have never processed film before it is good to practice with still film first.  I began processing film from my old 620 box camera years ago to learn how it's done.

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Oh, that's otto. That is the person I contacted. He said he had no more of those.

 

Please let me know what you turn up. I'll be scrounging around in the meatime, but I'm also still looking for a few things to finish my editing table.

 

Don't worry, I'm not going to jam hundreds of feet of film into the thing for the sake of learning. I'll do little test pieces and project them or something. Also, I think I'll be mingling my footage with lab processed color footage for this short idea I have.

 

Anyway, to clarify... negative is easier to hand process, but once I get the negative I have to send it off to the lab to make a positive print... and reversal is a little more complicated, but once developed I can begin to edit the original if I want to right (I'm going to skip the workprint to start out, not expecting a masterpiece or anything anyway)? Also, isn't reversal a little more sturdy, with regards to scratching and touching?

 

Thanks!

 

Steven

[Herb Montes]

Oh, that's otto. That is the person I contacted. He said he had no more of those.

 

Please let me know what you turn up. I'll be scrounging around in the meatime, but I'm also still looking for a few things to finish my editing table.

 

Don't worry, I'm not going to jam hundreds of feet of film into the thing for the sake of learning. I'll do little test pieces and project them or something. Also, I think I'll be mingling my footage with lab processed color footage for this short idea I have.

 

Anyway, to clarify... negative is easier to hand process, but once I get the negative I have to send it off to the lab to make a positive print... and reversal is a little more complicated, but once developed I can begin to edit the original if I want to right (I'm going to skip the workprint to start out, not expecting a masterpiece or anything anyway)? Also, isn't reversal a little more sturdy, with regards to scratching and touching?

 

Thanks!

 

Steven

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Yes, yould have to have a positive print made of your negative. You can have a lab do it, build your own printer, or have the negative transfered to video into a positive image.

 

As to a tank you can always build your own. The open reel variety requires a darkroom but there are a few sites online with information, Just keep looking. For now it's easier to concentrate on making films.

 

What things do you need for editing? At the most you will need rewinds, splicer, maybe a sync block and a viewer.

[Steven Budden]

Yes, yould have to have a positive print made of your negative.  You can have a lab do it, build your own printer, or have the negative transfered to video into a positive image.

 

As to a tank you can always build your own.  The open reel variety requires a darkroom but there are a few sites online with information,  Just keep looking.  For now it's easier to concentrate on making films.

 

What things do you need for editing?  At the most you will need rewinds, splicer, maybe a sync block and a viewer.

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I have a CIR splicer. Rewinds and a synch block are en route. These are ebay items so there is a chance something will be horribly wrong with them (I'm having bad luck with ebay thus far). Someone gave me a free trim bin and a cement hot splicer.

 

I guess now I just need a viewer, and some of the mundane stuff... film cleaner and grease pencils, etc. I'm looking for a larger viewer than a moviscop, if possible, and I just discovered a useful looking large moviola viewer with a synch block attached though I can't find one anywhere.

 

Currently, for me, space is more scarce than money. I'm willing to spend a little more to set things up right but I certainly can't fit a steenbeck in my place. Anyway, my camera is currently being worked on anyway, so I'm kind of just researching and gathering equipment.

 

Steven

[Algis Kemezys]

I just want to add that in FCP color correction you push the blacks to blue and the mids to red and then overexpose the highlights for that 50ties look.

[Nate Downes]

No responce yet. 8(

[Herb Montes]

No responce yet.  8(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well don't expect him to respond right away. He's slow in answering his email.

[Nate Downes]

Just saying. I dug out my 35mm magazine and the DeVry manual to see how to make it work with a magazine.

[Steven Budden]

Just saying.  I dug out my 35mm magazine and the DeVry manual to see how to make it work with a magazine.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Damn I still can't find a daylight processing tank anywhere? Anyone see any pop up somewhere please let me know. I'm looking for that Lomo 16x35 one of possible, or something comparable. I can't really make one because I live in a tiny apartment without tools or workspace.

 

Steven

[Guest Michael Carter]

Getting back to hand cranking, I did that with a Bolex H camera and it was difficult as heck to turn that tiny crank. There was a LOT of resistance and I had to really hold down the camera with a lot of weight, I am over 250 pounds and just leaned heavily on it!

Lately, I got out my Cine Kodak Special II and the hand crank on that camera is smooth and easy. It is such a difference that cranking at three times while saying, "onethousandone" and so on would be and is as easy as pie. If you are considering making a hand cranked movie then use the Cine Kodak Special II cameras, or the Special I works the same way. They both have one and eight frame crank shafts.

SF, when I lived there, rent was $75 a month overlooking Broadway tunnell on lower Russian Hill, 1444 Pacific Ave #6 and later upstairs in another apt.. My how things have changed!

[Herb Montes]

Downix - He just responded to me and he should get in touch with you as well.

 

Michael - The speed which you handcranked the Bolex is controlled by the govenor and what the fps dial is set to. To get more cranking speed set the dial to more than 32 fps. Yes the little crank for the Bolex is too small. The Cine Specials are easier to hand crank. The ideal 16mm movie camera for handcranking should have a 400 foot capacity magazine. So far the Mitchell is a good candidate by substituting a hand crank for the electric motor. Anyone tried this?

 

Steven - Home movie processing is not as popular as it once was. So tanks are harder to find. You could try a G3 tank since they are easier to find though trickier to use. I haven't heard yet from the dealer offering Lomo tanks yet.