Jump to content

I CANT DECIDE!!!


thetony

Recommended Posts

i am in a deadlock right now. Price doesnt matter. i just cant decide which one to choose. i am going to make short films and both have many features i want. i just want everyone's opinions on which one should be chosen and why, what do you like about one and not about the other.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

There have been a lot of comparisons here at this site about these two cameras. All the pros and cons of each have been listed in other threads. I would search for them using the search engine. You could probably find out anything you would want to know about either camera.

 

My own personal preference would be the Canon XL2 because I like the way Canon's footage looks over Panasonic's. I think the XL cameras are laid out very well and find shooting with them to be quite easy and comfortable.

 

People will tell you all about resolution and framerate, but what I would suggest would be to shoot with each camera. Find or rent one for a day and try it out. Then decide.

 

You need to also consider the accessories you will need for each camera. There are a few really good lens options for the XL2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

The 'spec' I would consider is ASA rating. The Panasonic is two stops faster than Canon and requires less light to capture great images. Panasonic is the sharpest in 4:3; Canon is the sharpest in 16:9.

 

Short of having your hands on both cameras, this 3-way camera test can be quite helpful:

http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/shoot3/

 

Hope this helps! Good luck.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you're going to shoot short narrative films, then low light levels have little or nothing to do with it, unless you want your film to look like a "home movie." The trick to getting the best image is to light it properly, just like the "big boys" in Hollywood do. It's a matter of control, and when you're totally at the mercy of available light, you have little or no control.

 

On the other hand, if you're shooting mostly wedding videos in available light, then you may want to take the camera's light sensitivity into consideration.

 

Bottom line? I'd go with the XL2. It offers far more options than any other camera out there in its class. More options = more control = better quality images.

 

Jay

Edited by Jay Gladwell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i just finished reading the last posts and the three way review. And i now believe i am leaning towards the dvx but still there are many people who prefer the xl2 over it. i need the camera to handle well in a lowlit street, or room, as well as giving me great image quality in well lit areas as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I still kinda prefer the look of the DVX-100 over the XL-2. I messed with the XL-2 menus for a few hours trying to make it look like a DVX and I could do it. So maybe it's a crapshoot, and you should just look at the money involved. If I was going to use it with the Mini-35 a lot I would go XL-2 for sure because I think the setup is better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just read the three-camera review.

And I'm kinda surprised to hear the DVX100a footage looks better than the XL2.

 

From my point of view I always felt that the XL2 footage looked better

It has more contrast and better latitude...but that's just my eye.

 

Either camera you get is very good...

Under the hands and eyes of a talented filmmakers you can make excellent work.

Remember it's more about the skill not about the tools.

I've done excellent work with both cameras.

 

I would choose the XL2 for one reason alone

It shoots great 16x9 footage...and it's very simple to do.

 

With the DVX100a it's still abit of a hassle to shoot 16x9

With squeeze mode you lose image quality...

the anamorphic adapter is a hassle...

And cropping it makes you lose resolution.

 

Anyways go for the one that best suits your needs

 

 

Good Luck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Hello.

 

Have to admit that the 3-way comparison at DVXuser is a bit biased. Not to say that they are being dishonest about the Canon. It's just that different people have different expectations of what they think their "ideal" camera should be.

When peole say the Panasonic delivers a better image they say so in regards to the "filmic" look of the footage. Canon delivers higher resolution footage. It depends on what your definition of quality is.

Most of what the DVX offers them is geared towards their needs. It doesn't make it a better camera than the XL2 by any stretch.

The strong points of each camera, summing them up quickly, are:

 

DVX100A: 1)Looks a little less "videoy" than the XL2 out of the box. Though, with careful tweaking, the XL2 is right on its heels.

2) Actual numeric assignments to controls instead of the XL2's "sliders"

3)Lighter, and therefore easier to manage in the field.

4) better low light capabilities by a few stops (I think)

 

 

XL2: 1) Better zoom. This has advantages for both the Videographer (which are obvious) and the filmmaker. The 20x allows for greater shallow DOF than the Panasonic.

2) True 16:9. (DVX 16:9 is a "squeeze" that compromises resolution) If you're doing a film out, the XL2 delivers much higher resolution in this mode. (the DVX has higher res by a slight bit in 4:3 mode) A comparison to the DVX was written about in American Cinematographer about this and they rated the XL2 higher in image quality than the DVX on a film-out.

3) Interchangeable lenses.

4) LANC capable. The DVX will not accept Varizoom type controls.

 

Also, keep in my mind that I think the XL2 suits my needs better. So I am as biased as the DVX users are about their camera.

But I have laid out the facts. And the facts are they are both great cameras.

Hope this helps.

Edited by Eric Brown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

4) LANC capable.  The DVX will not accept Varizoom type controls.

 

The DVX does indeed work with the VariZoom Controls. We in fact sell them. Additionally there are 5 films in the market right now that have be done with the DVX and all have gotten great reviews. Murderball, November, 9 Songs, Mad Hot Ballroom and Rock School.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The DVX does indeed work with the VariZoom Controls.  We in fact sell them. Additionally there are 5 films in the market right now that have be done with the DVX and all have gotten great reviews.  Murderball, November, 9 Songs, Mad Hot Ballroom and Rock School.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jan

 

 

 

Jan

 

Right you are. Thanks for the correction. I think my train of thought was going someplace else entirely due to an earlier Varizoom/DVX issue I had some time ago(gotta proof read these posts).

But I must add, those movies were good because talented filmakers were behind them. Cameras don't make great films. People do.

Anyone one of those directors, if given a Sony, JVC, Canon, ARRI etc...would have made just as nice a film.

The Panasonic is chosen because, above all the others, it does come closer to emulating a film asthetic then any other current pro-sumer offering.

I like both cameras (DVX/XL2) because of the great footage they produce but don't particularly place any special value on the Panasonic because it looks less like video than the Canon.

I just happen to like the wide-arrangement of lens choices I can get with my adapter and the XL2, but some people may place no special value on that.

Once again, what really matters most is "thetonys" skills as a filmmaker and how he will use them utilizing whatever tools he chooses to employ.

Edited by Eric Brown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello all...

 

My first post here, but I figured I should go ahead and chime in.

 

I have been in the same situation in the past as you when trying to choose between a camera and which system is going to best suit my needs. Without coming across like a jerk, here are a couple of things that I think you should know. (To qualify, I am a DVX owner who moved from the XL1 [still have two of them] to the DVX [only have 1 so far])

 

Low Light - A complete non issue. If you do not light your scene correctly it will look like garbage, pure and simple.

 

16:9 - I'm a DVX user, so obviously I am biased in this regard. You need to look at each project as an individual element and decide what is going to work best for your needs. If you decide to use a DVX there are several methods that you can use to follow through with to uprez your DVX squeeze footage. Personally I shoot in letterbox for all of my projects or just straight 4:3 and letterbox in post. It comes down to personal preference. Once again, I consider this a mute point.

 

Interchangable Lense - I don't want to offend any XL users, but this is also a non issue. You mentioned price doesn't matter, but go to any of the big retailers and price out the lenses for the XL2. They are extremely expensive. The odds of ever getting and using another lense is very small. I guarantee you that 95% of XL owners never purchased or used another lense.

 

Handling - The XL series has a learning curve. It's handling is weird initially, but grows on you. The DVX has a much lower learning curve, I find it to be extremely intuitive.

 

Picture - This is where people normally disagree with me, but in general I find that the image from the DVX is much more suited for the scripted indie look where the XL is much more suited for the documentary look. I can defend this position more, and both can replicate either image, it just comes down to tweeking.

 

Cost - To say that cost doesn't matter, well... either you're very well off or just... I don't know. Cost is always an issue. If cost is not an issue look at some of the $50,000 units. The DVX delivers more than the XL2 out of the box for more than $1000 less. If cost isn't an issue, then get the DVX and the anamorphic adapter and you still have a few hundred to invest into a tripod.

 

Support - Obviously you have explored DVXuser. I find that the DVX has the largest and most open support network available. This is a great asset.

 

24p - They tie in this regard. It is this simple. Either camera will shoot 24p which is the most important aspect of these units. The moment you see your footage in 24p you will never understand why you used anything else in the past. It is this simple.

 

My opinion, I recommend the DVX. I am biased, but still... Look at everything you will need to get. Camera ($3400-$4400), Tripod ($450-$1200), Microphones, Shockmount, Boom, Cables, Windscreen, Fur, Blimp ($1000-$4000), Lights ($25-$10,000). I am forgetting a lot, but money matters.

 

Just my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guarantee you that 95% of XL owners never purchased or used another lense.

Jeremy, excuse me for being so blunt, but you don't know what you're talking about. Making such brash statements without any knowledge or information to back it up is completely absurd. It's statements like this that ruin your credibility.

 

The XL series has a learning curve.

As does most professional equipment.

 

It's handling is weird initially, but grows on you.

It didn't seem weird to me and I've been in this business for over 35 years.

 

The DVX has a much lower learning curve, I find it to be extremely intuitive.

As are most point and shot cameras.

 

The DVX delivers more than the XL2 out of the box for more than $1000 less.

See above statement. Yes, the XL2 has a flexibility like few other cameras, especially the DVX. This flexibility does require some thought and practice to master, as does any real tool. So in this regard, you're correct. If one is too lazy and/or uninterested in learning how to use a fine tool like the XL2, then by all means, get something else, like the DVX.

 

You're saving grace was that you did, finally, state that your opinion was biased.

 

Jay

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jeremy, excuse me for being so blunt, but you don't know what you're talking about.  Making such brash statements without any knowledge or information to back it up is completely absurd.  It's statements like this that ruin your credibility.

As does most professional equipment.

It didn't seem weird to me and I've been in this business for over 35 years.

As are most point and shot cameras.

See above statement.  Yes, the XL2 has a flexibility like few other cameras, especially the DVX.  This flexibility does require some thought and practice to master, as does any real tool.  So in this regard, you're correct.  If one is too lazy and/or uninterested in learning how to use a fine tool like the XL2, then by all means, get something else, like the DVX.

 

You're saving grace was that you did, finally, state that your opinion was biased.

 

Jay

 

 

Jay, couldn't have said it better myself. Many people buy the XL2 because, like myself, they want to be able to switch out lenses. And with the EF adapter the choices become even greater. This isn't to bash the Panasonic as I think it is a very good camera, but I prefer my XL2 over it.

Edited by Eric Brown
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Michael King

I'm am looking at both fine cameras and read the review comparison mentioned before. It looked a bit biased toward the DVX, but then I saw those picture comparisons. I was blown away by the XL2. It looks so much better to me. Is there any real comparison there?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mike, it depends on you, the camera operator, as much or more than it does the camera. It depends on what your needs are and what you're willing to do or not do. If you want good basic (point-and-shoot-out-of-the-box) camera, then DVX is for you. If you want a more versatile camera with an open architecture, if you want to learn how to control camera/image variables, etc., then the XL2 is for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My opinion, I recommend the DVX.  I am biased, but still...

Look at everything you will need to get. 

Camera ($3400-$4400), Tripod ($450-$1200),

Microphones, Shockmount, Boom, Cables, Windscreen, Fur, Blimp ($1000-$4000), Lights ($25-$10,000).

I am forgetting a lot, but money matters. 

 

I don't know why you need to get all that?

Most of the cameramen I know just have a really good camera package...

 

Unless you're an indie filmmaker making his/her own film

Will you need to own sound equipment, lights, studio, etc...

 

I mean you can rent all of that...

Why spend 1000 bucks on sound equipment when you can get a better camera

And hook up with a really talented sound guy who has his own equipment...

And then you can make a better movie.

 

Personally I feell all this talk of Which is a better camera: DVX100 or XL2?Will be pushed out of the water when Panasonic comes out with the HVX200

And then we'll see diehard HVX enthusiaist saying

 

"I don't know why I didn't shoot in HD before...." :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

I think the XL2 is the way to go I have shot on both cameras as the DP numerous times,

It is funny that someone posted "I messed with the XL2 and managed to get it looking like the DVX" I find that a wierd thing to say (no offense) because one big advantage of the XL2 is that it has more extensive menus, that I found allowed me to manipulate the image MUCH more than the somewhat limiting DVX menus. Also on DV any slight improvement in resolution is a big plus, and in 16x9 the XL2 has the edge, also I found the anamorphic adaptors for the DVX to be problematic on a rushed shoot.

Here is a couple of stills from an XL2 shoot I DP'd, absolutely no color correction, all in camera, white balance and menus (no filters either which is rare for me on DV). Also I found that if you push the color temp. on the DVX menu too far to the blue end, there becomes a lot of noise in the image especially in the bluest areas, while on the XL2 I manipulated the color A LOT in camera with no noticable adverse affects at all.

Cheers.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
Interchangable Lense - I don't want to offend any XL users, but this is also a non issue.  You mentioned price doesn't matter, but go to any of the big retailers and price out the lenses for the XL2.  They are extremely expensive.  The odds of ever getting and using another lense is very small.  I guarantee you that 95% of XL owners never purchased or used another lense.

I own two lenses for my XL-2, I bought the 16x used for $1K, but I sold the 20x for $750. Then I bought the 3x wide for $1100 but got a $400 rebate (w/ the body) so they don't HAVE to be that expensive. Plus, you need what you need. And the DVX just doesn't get wide enough for my taste and all things being equal (which they are not, although close), that would tip the scale for me.

My opinion, I recommend the DVX.  I am biased, but still... Look at everything you will need to get.  Camera ($3400-$4400), Tripod ($450-$1200), Microphones, Shockmount, Boom, Cables, Windscreen, Fur, Blimp ($1000-$4000), Lights ($25-$10,000).  I am forgetting a lot, but money matters. 

 

Just my opinion.

 

You bought a blimp for your DVX? Granted, I've only shot with a DVX twice, but I don't remember it making any noise to speak of.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello,

I think the XL2 is the way to go I have shot on both cameras as the DP numerous times,

It is funny that someone posted "I messed with the XL2 and managed to get it looking like the DVX" I find that a wierd thing to say (no offense) because one big advantage of the XL2 is that it has  more extensive menus, that I found allowed me to manipulate the image MUCH more than the somewhat limiting DVX menus. Also on DV any slight improvement in resolution is a big plus, and in 16x9 the XL2 has the edge, also I found the anamorphic adaptors for the DVX to be problematic on a rushed shoot.

Here is a couple of stills from an XL2 shoot I DP'd, absolutely no color correction, all in camera, white balance and menus (no filters either which is rare for me on DV). Also I found that if you push the color temp. on the DVX menu too far to the blue end, there becomes a lot of noise in the image especially in the bluest areas, while on the XL2 I manipulated the color A LOT in camera with no noticable adverse affects at all.

Cheers.

 

 

Tomas, I like the stills. Do you have a demo reel by any chance I can look at? I wrote and plan on directing a short in the next few months here using my XL2.

I'm thinking of DP'ing it myself but...only so much you can do on set.

We're low to no budget but if you're interested I can send a script your way.

And, I suppose, location is always a consideration as we are in LA.

Thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...