Rogue One

[Tyler Purcell]

I don't think anyone realizes how much of a genius he is! He did everything, from creating all the exotic worlds, to Han Solo, Obi Wan Kenobi, Darth Vader! Who else can create such great characters??

Umm, have you seen the sergio leone films? Star Wars is basically a rip-off of the classic western movies. Even Lucas himself admits Star Wars is a typical western told in space.

 

Those great characters have existed for 50+ years. It's just, people forget very quickly.

[John Holland]

Tyler the answer your question to the 6 min clip from "Dunkirk " is it was a 70mm 15/70 Imax print in the correct format that filled the whole Imax screen unlike Rogue One although 70mm film print did not fill the whole screen and I think it was about 1.90 format . This could be because of it was shot in Ultra Panavision70 a ultra wide format and would have lost to much if gone to the correct Imax format .

[KH Martin]

Empire Strikes Back is deeply adventurous and beautiful, but you have to remember that the screenplay for 'A New Hope' wasn't written by a hack, Episode 4 has tons of memorable moments, the dialogue is snappy and humorous, the part written for Alec Guinness was outstanding, and the expository element was well disguised. For instance the hologram messages were genius and creative forms to deliver heavy exposition which would've become cumbersome if done in some other fashion. This is why episodes 1 & 2 were "boring" to a lot of people, because of the heavy political exposition. You have to realize George created a unique style through his writing by revitalizing old genres. The template for all Star Wars movies derive from the original one.

I didn't think it was any secret that the Huycks, who rewrote AMERICAN GRAFITTI, also did a very extensive polish on GL's SW script, and are responsible for most of the glib snappy lines, including all of the Han/Leia stuff. Not saying the structure doesn't belong to GL, but don't give him credit for stuff that is clearly NOT in his wheelhouse. You take that snappy feel out of SW and you don't have SW and you don't have a phenomena arising out of it either.

 

As far as that goes, the Guinness character was written as an old desert hermit, eccentric, and it was only after interaction with Guinness that Obi-Wan emerged in the form he took.

 

I don't think SW really emerges as what was in GL's mind at all -- you only have to look at his oft-stated intention that it was supposed to look very diffused and soft yet be shot documentary style to see that what is onscreen has very little to do with his vision, which sounds like a terrible mix of the godawful LUCKY LADY (he originally had Unsworth signed to shoot SW) and the awesome-but-c'mon-use-this-technique-in-context MEDIUM COOL.

[KH Martin]

This is an unpopular opinion, but I'd prefer a writer/director who didn't hold Star Wars near and dear take the gig. Sentimental attachment clouds judgement.A lo

A lot of folks credit this not-a-fan approach to be what made WRATH OF KHAN work, since Meyer's uncredited rewrite is what pulled the whole thing together. He barely knew from TREK, but did know where he wanted to go with it.

[Igor Trajkovski]

This is an unpopular opinion, but I'd prefer a writer/director who didn't hold Star Wars near and dear take the gig. Sentimental attachment clouds judgement.

 

Why not Lynch , Haneke or Van Trier? :)

 

Lynch woud've shot it on his trusty Sony PD150,

Haneke would "kill" with his long static camera shots,

and Trier would "dogme"-tize it and do what ever the "F" he feels is right for the "story"...

 

:) LOL

 

...

 

I might have taken it too far, however there was a time i was fascinated with the idea

for a movie experiment where 3 directors would take the same script, sets and maybe the actors

and everybody would do their own take on the story.

 

...

 

I have hopes for "Rogue One" to be better then TFA.

Expectations are high, however there is a caution moment in me,

there might be some truisms in what Tyler says about the story moments.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Igor Trajkovski

[joshua gallegos]

 

Why not Lynch , Haneke or Van Trier? :)

 

Lynch woud've shot it on his trusty Sony PD150,

Haneke would "kill" with his long static camera shots,

and Trier would "dogme"-tize it and do what ever the "F" he feels is right for the "story"...

 

:) LOL

 

...

 

I might have taken it too far, however there was a time i was fascinated with the idea

for a movie experiment where 3 directors would take the same script, sets and maybe the actors

and everybody would do their own take on the story.

 

...

 

I have hopes for "Rogue One" to be better then TFA.

Expectations are high, however there is a caution moment in me,

there might be some truisms in what Tyler says about the story moments.

 

 

David Lynch was actually offered an opportunity to direct a Star Wars film, but he rejected the offer.

[KH Martin]

David Lynch was actually offered an opportunity to direct a Star Wars film, but he rejected the offer.

 

He did DUNE instead of RETURN OF THE JEDI, after Ridley Scott walked away from that to do BLADE RUNNER. (scott's dune had a script with the main character sleeping with his mother to produce his weird sister -- don't think that would have played AT ALL in northamerica.)

 

I do think it is funny that Scott's company is doing MAN IN THE HIGH CASTLE, it is like he finally realized decades after BR that PKD source material is really choice for 'smart' SF adaptations.

[JD Hartman]

 

He did DUNE instead of RETURN OF THE JEDI, after Ridley Scott walked away from that to do BLADE RUNNER. (scott's dune had a script with the main character sleeping with his mother to produce his weird sister -- don't think that would have played AT ALL in northamerica.)

 

 

 

The screenplay already deviated from the original story of the novels. Why bastardize it even further?

[Michael Lehnert]

 

Quite simple for you to block Tyler's posts as to not assault your senses with his verbiage.

 

 

Life is better without self-imposed ennui.

[Jon O'Brien]

I was surprised by Rogue One. In a lot of ways it didn't feel or look like a Star Wars movie, but I ended up loving it. Not convinced at first, and for a long way into the movie, I realised I was actually hooked and completely won-over by the time I saw the Squadron Leader from ANH which was of course getting close to the end. I didn't really think Tarkin worked all that well - sort of over-acted on a micro level if that makes any sense (in my opinion) but full marks to them for trying. You could of course tell he was CG. But nevertheless he had to be in the picture and I think on the whole it was good enough. Vader was pretty good too, though parts of his mask looked slightly different (but who cares - again it was just great to see Vader again). His little scene in the dark corridor at the end I thought was very well done and added a lot to the film. I loved the partially-opened door and the handing on of the vital item from one to the other through the narrow gap like a tag team race. I liked very much the main female lead, and in fact all the main characters. Thought the "dreamer" Jedi 'wanna be' priest-like guy was great. I loved the last word of dialogue of the whole picture, delivered by the Princess. The whole essence of the film seems to be team effort made up of lots of individual effort, sacrifice, faith and hope - the grand themes that are timeless. In the cinema where I watched it tonight, the audience clapped very warmly at the end. The clapping went on quite a while too.

[KH Martin]

 

The screenplay already deviated from the original story of the novels. Why bastardize it even further?

Lynch and his first two co-writers (guys who did ELEPHANT MAN) wrote theirs from scratch, and I think ultimately there were about 7 drafts before he and Dino agreed on what was getting shot, all after discarding the Scott version, by Rudy Wurlitzer. My understanding is that they felt they were very close to the source material, and only eliminated stuff that would have resulted in a 7hr version, like the second guy who COULD have been Kwisatz (who is probably my favorite character in the book.) MediaScene Premiere magazine had a longish piece about the Wurlitzer/Scott DUNE and other attempts (including the Jodorowksy) during the 80s, and Harlan Ellison did a nice piece on DUNE as well (and he LIKED it!)

 

For all the talk of the sci fi channel version being closer to the book, I actually found that to be way off the mark, especially with respect to Princess Irulan, and couldn't even finish watching it. The Lynch DUNE, even with the 'rain' nonsense at the end, is something I can watch a few times a year, and every 5 years or so I even watch the disowned longer version with the missing blue eyes stuff cut back in. I just wish they'd cast somebody charismatic in the lead (read recently that Rob Lowe turned Dino down, and even though I think Lowe's only strength is comedy, at least he'd have been a presence instead of a black hole all the other talent was stuck orbiting round and getting sucked in by, which is how I read Kyle in DUNE -- amazing his differences and growth between DUNE and TWIN PEAKS, though.)

[Jon O'Brien]

Spoiler Alert: That way the film came down, in the end, to one group handing on to the next group, with such a frustratingly 'dumb' situation (from the Empire's point of view) as just a corridor and a jammed door, was I think masterful. It sort of summed up the whole essence of the Star Wars story - a 'small and unimportant' group of people and a very personal effort and teamwork getting in the way of an enormous Empire. Vader was just a few metres away from grabbing back the data disk. If he'd grabbed it in his black glove, the rebels would never have gone on to destroy the Death Star. It slipped just out of his grasp. Wonderful, masterful touch!

[Tyler Purcell]

I agree about the last 5 minutes, in my book it was the only decent thing about the movie.

 

Since I made this post, many of my friends have seen the movie and have mixed reviews. Real Star Wars fans seemed to love it because it's "different". My filmmaking friends threw it under the bus for the worthless "action for the sake of action" and the movie looking no different then every other tent pole in the last 10 years.

 

I will share one of my favorites from my buddy Dan. I think he breaks down the issues much better then I did, partially because he's not a filmmaker and not really a big Star Wars fan.

 

1. NO OPENING CRAWL - It seems like the people who made this movie did not consider consistency to be important in the Star Wars franchise. This is the first movie in the franchise to not have an opening crawl and not having consistency really shows in the quality of the movie.

 

2. BAD PACING and TRANSITION - In the beginning of the movie you have the camera jump from random planets without any real explanation as to what is going on and this type of camera work goes on for the entire movie. It just feels like a bunch of random shots put together.

 

3. NO CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT - You feel absolutely no emotion or bond towards any of the characters. All of them feel replaceable and there is no memorable chemistry between the characters in any way. I have no idea why Forrest Whittaker was even in the film because he serves no purpose. His character finds the main lead and then it entirely skips any sort of character development that could've happened between the two. I don't even remember the characters names because most of them were so unmemorable

 

4. THE ROBOT - As I said before consistency did not seem to be important to the makers of this movie. The reprogrammed imperial robot seemed TOO human. He moved too much like a human and talked too much like a human, which did not happen in any of the other star wars movies. The most human like droid was C-3p0 but even he did not MOVE like a human.

 

5. VADER - Something about this Vader seemed to be off. I can't point my finger as to what it is but his style of talking and also his suit seems to be different because I didn't see a chain around his neck. Also his lightsabre fighting style seemed too agile and more like the prequel rather than a hard hitting slow style like in the original trilogy. As I said before, consistency didn't seem important to the filmmakers and little things like this pulled me out of the movie.

 

6. Obvious SJW Agenda - I am Korean-American. When I watch a Star Wars film, I just want a good Star Wars film. I don't need a Star Wars filmed disguised with a SJW Agenda. Is it a coincidence that the Rebels has a woman, an arab, two Asian guys, a hispanic etc. and the Empire is all white? Why can't I just have a good Star Wars film?

 

I will say this. The only good part of the movie was at the end when the Death Star fires at the planet because that is the only time I actually felt emotion for the characters and saw a little bit of character development.

[Guest]

Lucas was a god damn genius, but not for screenwriting. Film making innovations.

 

The first real Star Wars (1977) film, will always be the very best, all others are below it in varying degrees. What Lucas achieved is truly extraordinary when you consider the budget and the technical innovations for the time. Making all the other films a success is really quite easy.

 

R,

[Guest]

Apparently the writer's admitted there is some truth to this claim:

 

"6. Obvious SJW Agenda - I am Korean-American. When I watch a Star Wars film, I just want a good Star Wars film. I don't need a Star Wars filmed disguised with a SJW Agenda. Is it a coincidence that the Rebels has a woman, an arab, two Asian guys, a hispanic etc. and the Empire is all white? Why can't I just have a good Star Wars film?"

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/rogue-one-is-a-political-allegory-tease-writers-946638

 

"Chris Weitz tweeted the following Friday morning: "Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization." Gary Whitta, the original writer on the project, responded in kind, tweeting: "Opposed by a multi-cultural group led by brave women."hris Weitz tweeted the following Friday morning: "Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization." Gary Whitta, the original writer on the project, responded in kind, tweeting: "Opposed by a multi-cultural group led by brave women."

 

R,

[David Mullen ASC]

I'm disturbed that it even occurs to some people to be bothered by seeing a diverse cast in an adventure/fantasy movie.

[Guest]

Now this! This was a quality Star Wars spin off movie, long before Rogue One:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt6TWcEjhwg

 

R,

[Guest]

I'm disturbed that it even occurs to some people to be bothered by seeing a diverse cast in an adventure/fantasy movie.

 

A diverse cast is not an issue of course. But why the writers chose to make a statement the way they did is somewhat of a mystery?

 

R,

[Tyler Purcell]

I'm disturbed that it even occurs to some people to be bothered by seeing a diverse cast in an adventure/fantasy movie.

Diversity is only good if they're not stereotyped. There is a lot of stereotyping in modern movies when it comes to non-white actors.

[Guest]

I watch a lot of TCM, you watch movies from the 50s and 60s and think.....holy cow, I can't believe they could do that back then.

 

R,

[Max Field]

Yeah forced activism can potentially get annoying but then on the flip side, anti-activism is silly. "I think minorities should stop pushing for representation therefor they should now have less representation" lol.

 

I don't find dudes typing "SJW" all that unbiased.

[Michael Lehnert]

I really can't fathom how grown-up men become whinging snowflakes triggered into having a childish passive-aggressive meltdown simply because they are being confronted by characters in a Star Wars movie that are not looking like all male Caucasians. How did they ever compute the Cantina scene back in '77 with all that diversity on show ;) ? Seriously though: to purposefully search for 'SJW'-type stereotyping in Rogue One's cast and screenplay from the vantage point of the OT and PT and their nowadays grotesque stereotyping throughout, is either shallow politicising or outright artistic inaptitude. It may be fashionable right now and for a few more years to be sexist and xenophobic in public again, but the future will not be kind to those opinions. Trust me, I am German, been there, done that, redux efforts not recommended. Can't cope with women getting a gig over you? Need to source a "Korean-American" to add some credibility to sock-puppeting your political views? Think that a movie where the baddies are lookalike Nazis should't be politicised to push a "feminazi diversity agenda"? Hate if a fictional team from billions of star systems and planets from all over a fictional galaxy isn't homogenously WASP-enough looking, because such default would be like soo more believable?

Grow some balls and man up. Or watch 'Queen of Outer Space'; in an "ironic way", of course.

[Tyler Purcell]

Back on topic for a second... I just caught wind that when Disney ordered the reshoots, everyone walked. That included Edwards, McQuarrie and Desplat who was in the middle of writing the score. I mean it was a really good team and the movie would have been entirely different with those three at the helm. I'm dismayed Disney wanted to make it more for kiddies.

[Michael Lehnert]

Back on topic for a second... I just caught wind that when Disney ordered the reshoots, everyone walked. That included Edwards, McQuarrie and Desplat who was in the middle of writing the score. I mean it was a really good team and the movie would have been entirely different with those three at the helm. I'm dismayed Disney wanted to make it more for kiddies.

You raised the off-topic yourself, Tyler, as usual :D .

[JD Hartman]

Apparently the writer's admitted there is some truth to this claim:

 

"6. Obvious SJW Agenda - I am Korean-American. When I watch a Star Wars film, I just want a good Star Wars film. I don't need a Star Wars filmed disguised with a SJW Agenda. Is it a coincidence that the Rebels has a woman, an arab, two Asian guys, a hispanic etc. and the Empire is all white? Why can't I just have a good Star Wars film?"

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/rogue-one-is-a-political-allegory-tease-writers-946638

 

"Chris Weitz tweeted the following Friday morning: "Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization." Gary Whitta, the original writer on the project, responded in kind, tweeting: "Opposed by a multi-cultural group led by brave women."hris Weitz tweeted the following Friday morning: "Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization." Gary Whitta, the original writer on the project, responded in kind, tweeting: "Opposed by a multi-cultural group led by brave women."

 

R,

 

Not just white supremacist, but Neo-Nazi of course, just as all truly evil groups in movies are. Similar to the Eastern Alliance in the original Battlestar Galactica series. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Alliance

 

I'm mystified that in far reaches of the (SW) universe, so many of the inhabitants are humanoid. Sure makes casting easy,