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Tyler Purcell

Tye's Sony Rant

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What I mean is that someone buying a camera package, has to take into account far more variables then renting.

Please do list them for me.

 

 

JB

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Money?

You didn't say money.

 

You actually said this.

 

I don't know what Brawley is talking about. Again, someone who didn't go to B&H, buy a camera and learn it.

That's not money. That's some BS about knowledge being different depending on if you own the camera or not.

 

You then went on to disprove your own theory by not even understanding the issues I have with the camera.

 

Then you muddy the waters with "money" as an answer. Cryptic. Because it doesn't mean anything. How is it different ?

 

JB

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Whatever, I don't honestly care.

 

Buddy it's your thread. You called me out.

 

Great attitude though for someone that purports to be an educator when you're challenged to back up your information.

 

JB

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Maybe Tyler is trying to make a distinction between renting several cameras for a shoot where they will be operated by others, renting a camera where you are operating on a shoot and owning and operating you own equipment on a shoot. Each brings a differing level of knowledge to a project.

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Maybe Tyler is trying to make a distinction between renting several cameras for a shoot where they will be operated by others, renting a camera where you are operating on a shoot and owning and operating you own equipment on a shoot. Each brings a differing level of knowledge to a project.

 

OK. So again, the inference is that renting a camera means you don't know it as well because...you don't own it ? Don't use it for many hours ?

 

Here's my B camera that I operated full time from Party Tricks.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawley/14068920207/in/album-72157644563566426/

 

In this photo you'll notice that I'm using the Panavision EVF instead of the two inferior options that Sony offer.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawley/14569360055/in/album-72157644563566426/

 

That's because in the EXTENSIVE TESTING I did with this camera during a phrase perhaps that hasn't been heard of around here, called PRE PRODUCTION, I realised it wasn't going to do what I needed so I switched it for a BETTER EVF. I guess I'd learn that from....what ? The BH user review and feedback when I go to BUY the camera ?

 

I did weeks of testing before to put myself in the best possible position to know what I can and can't do with the tools I choose. WEEKS of testing.

 

It's insulting to infer that ownership bestows a greater or deeper knowledge of understanding a camera. Just as insulting to say that the work of a cinematographer rests solely on the knowledge of operating a particular camera.

 

I also operated full time on Hiding, another F55 series.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawley/15110096353/in/album-72157594566402764/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawley/15543549359/in/album-72157594566402764/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawley/15727506451/in/album-72157594566402764/

 

Still. Maybe I learned some more about the F55 as the DP and sole camera operator on Scare Campaign. Here's my camera build for that show.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnbrawley/16839307659/in/album-72157650542810588/

 

FYI, I operate as well as DP. Just because I use a lot of cameras doesn't mean they have each have dedicated operators and I'm sitting on my arse behind a DIT tent somewhere.

 

It's just unbelievably elitist and insulting that someone can't have an opinion about a piece of equipment because they don't own it. That even the inference that you might not be the operator or "just a DP" I think shows a gross misunderstanding of how filmaking. I'm still flabbergasted that we're still in a conversation where I have to justify and defend my opinion of a camera, especially when the OP clearly doesn't know the F55 as well as he thinks he does.

 

JB

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John, the background to the thread is that Tyler had a bad experience with Sony cameras once, for reasons that were later demonstrated to be largely user error. What his purpose in calling you out was, I have no idea, but it's safe to say that the people here who use Sonys regularly have no problems at all getting good results out of them.

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John, the background to the thread is that Tyler had a bad experience with Sony cameras once, for reasons that were later demonstrated to be largely user error. What his purpose in calling you out was, I have no idea, but it's safe to say that the people here who use Sonys regularly have no problems at all getting good results out of them.

 

Hello Stuart.

 

Yes, I'm probably wading into something I shouldn't bother with, apologies.

 

I have indeed shot many times with Sony cameras and gotten good results using them. So much that I went back for more.

 

JB

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I have indeed shot many times with Sony cameras and gotten good results using them. So much that I went back for more.

Me too. I've shot 4 features now on Sony cameras, and while I have a few gripes about the operation of the camera, I've never had cause for complaint about the images I get from them.

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They still have them.. but at least they are becoming sort of uniform between similar models.. but once you set up your user menu its no longer a pain.. and the F5/55 have 4 assign buttons.. and from V8.. a new menu set up for the LCD only that you can use to set up most things.. so you dont really have to go into the menu much at all these days.. once you have set User/Assign and use the hot buttons around the LCD and the newer v8 set up menu for the LCD..

 

The Fs7 I believe has more assign buttons.. but lacks the hot button/LCD .. which was basically lifted directly for the Arri Alex design..

 

Sort of cant have it both ways as the F5/55 do have an amazing number of combinations of formats and settings.. sort of swiss army knife compared to Arri.. but once you have user menu set and assign, I rarely have to even go into the menus for a most shoots.. or only a couple of clicks .. not any different from the Arri these days...

 

Talk about bottom less and very complicated menus.. the Pana Varicam LT.. wow that puts the Sony,s to shame.. never just rent that without a couple days prep ..!! labyrinth of settings.. not always where you would expect them..

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John, the background to the thread is that Tyler had a bad experience with Sony cameras once, for reasons that were later demonstrated to be largely user error. What his purpose in calling you out was, I have no idea, but it's safe to say that the people here who use Sonys regularly have no problems at all getting good results out of them.

Just for clarification, three completely different shoots over the course of two years. Started with the FS7, then F5 and finally F55. I wanted to use all three cameras so I could make my own judgement call on what they were all about.

 

Having spent 8 years shooting ENG with Sony Betacam and DvCAM cameras and having OWNED Sony DV and HDV camcorders until 2006ish, I was very familiar with Sony's menu system and how their CCD cameras worked and looked.

 

Look, I come from film ok? I want my digital cameras to look like film, I want them to behave like film. I want those warm skin tones, I want dynamic range so my image pops. I want my digital cameras to be easy to use, very simple/basic menus that aren't restrictive, that don't make you go fishing. I also want a package I can shoulder mount that feels good and works well. With film, Blackmagic, Red, Alexa, I can shoot using the same methods and I understand the cameras very well. Not because I use them every day, but because the designers gave a poop about intuitive (easy to use) designs. I simply can't get the results I'M looking for with the Sony CMOS cameras. They behave entirely different and that's great for some people, but I don't spend enough time shooting to warrant re-learning that trade for the sake of making a certain camera look good. I simply won't use that camera.

 

Also, I get that some people like the look of Sony's color science. I frankly think it's looks horrible and I can usually tell if something is shot with one of those cameras because the coloring is always odd for some reason, it's never simply "natural" looking.

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Maybe Tyler is trying to make a distinction between renting several cameras for a shoot where they will be operated by others, renting a camera where you are operating on a shoot and owning and operating you own equipment on a shoot. Each brings a differing level of knowledge to a project.

When you own something, when it's YOUR MONEY on the line, you tend to think differently when it's someone else's.

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When you own something, when it's YOUR MONEY on the line, you tend to think differently when it's someone else's.

There just no logic to this argument. When I'm renting a camera for a movie, I need to know how to use it to its best advantage so that it looks good. I need to know about its post-production pipeline, so that I don't cause problems further down the line. I need to know it's quirks, so that I don't get caught out on set, with the clock ticking. To learn all this, I RESEARCH the camera thoroughly, both online, and by chatting with other users, and I TEST extensively. It's the exact same process that I would use if I was planning to buy a camera.

 

You seem to be unwilling to explain your comments, or back them up with facts. Every time you are challenged you either refuse to answer, or make another equally vague and nonsensical comment.

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There just no logic to this argument. When I'm renting a camera for a movie, I need to know how to use it to its best advantage so that it looks good. I need to know about its post-production pipeline, so that I don't cause problems further down the line. I need to know it's quirks, so that I don't get caught out on set, with the clock ticking. To learn all this, I RESEARCH the camera thoroughly, both online, and by chatting with other users, and I TEST extensively. It's the exact same process that I would use if I was planning to buy a camera.

First time I used the Dragon and Alexa XT, I had never used either camera. I showed up on set, the camera package was in a box, I assembled it, configured the camera (ISO/Shutter angle/white balance) and shot. Took me around 5 minutes to get the features/functions I use onto the EVF and that was all I needed. I had already worked with R3D (red code) and Pro Res (alexa) files before, so I already knew exactly how I wanted the codec to be setup. The results from those first two shoots were great, nobody would have ever known I had never used the camera before.

 

After my first (horrible) experience using the FS7 in the same manor (getting to set and seeing the camera for the first time), on the 2nd more time consuming shoot, I actually went to the rental house and set it up to insure there would be no problems on set. I had a technician go through the camera with me and it seemed all ok. I could have rented a Dragon or Alexa, but because everyone on here talked so much hype about the F5, I decided to bite the bullet. When I got to set, I realized I was completely wrong. We had a lot of issues with finding white balance. I had a camera crew of 3 people and one of them was very familiar with the Sony cameras, he made lots of phone calls and it took me going online at lunch to figure out you can't adjust the white balance in SLog mode outside of the presets. Now, I shoot everything at around 6000 - 6500k with digital cameras interior with HMI's. The F5 was limited to 5600, which meant everything looked super cold. So my gaffing team had to go around to each of the HMI's (we had 6 I think) and put gels on flags in front of each one. It took us hours and the net result? We ran out of time **(obscenity removed)** around with poop and we had to just shoot. I figured we'd have enough to work with in post, but I was wrong. It just looked like poop, it was the worst thing I had shot for 20 years and I was horribly embarrassed. Again, never would have been a problem on a Red or Alexa.

 

I did maybe a dozen Dragon, Alexa, C300, blackmagic and Film, shoots between that F5 experience and the next shoot with the same filmmaker. We talked about cameras and neither one of us wanted to use Sony, however all of the rental houses were out of Dragon's and Alexa XT's during the week we were shooting and I couldn't talk him into using an Ursa Mini. I must have spent three days trying to score TWO identical camera packages. I had no choice but to rent the only camera the rental houses had... the one nobody ever rents, the F55. I told the director and he wasn't upset and my AC and gaffing team knew the issues, so we'd be ready right? First part of the shoot went ok, all the exteriors looked fine, no real beefs. Then we moved interior, things seemed to be ok for a while, but eventually poop fell apart. We starting having the same issues as the last one with color balance and getting good skin tones. Now we also couldn't control all of the lighting interior, so it would have been a problem no matter what. Yet, I was just frustrated and didn't understand why these cameras just don't look good! I would look at the monitor and I would want to puke. We tried all sorts of crazy lighting rigs to try and warm things up and it worked sometimes, but not others. Eventually we just gave up and again, finished the show because we didn't have the time to **(obscenity removed)** around on set. My gaffing team is top notch, really awesome guys, led by a very good DP in his own right. So when we had issues, they knew how to solve them, but everyone scratched their heads when looking at the monitors.

 

I don't know how much "testing" one needs to do in order to make something look good, but after doing three shoots on these particular Sony cameras, I had quite a bit of seat time. We shot for around a month on the F55 shoot, it was quite a bit of work for a multi-piece industrial. I got plenty of seat time, no more "testing" would have concluded anything but my continued hatred for the color science, menus and locked out functions. My comments are echoed with most professional cinematographers I talk with, which is a lot. I've also received several PM's about this thread, other people complaining who didn't wanna comment on this thread because they didn't wanna get people stomping on them. I'm vocal about things because frankly, someone has to be.

 

I'm glad the cameras work for some people... they just don't work for me and they are THE ONLY camera I've ever touched in my entire life, that doesn't work for me.

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First time I used the Dragon and Alexa XT, I had never used either camera. I showed up on set, the camera package was in a box, I assembled it, configured the camera (ISO/Shutter angle/white balance) and shot. Took me around 5 minutes to get the features/functions I use onto the EVF and that was all I needed. I had already worked with R3D (red code) and Pro Res (alexa) files before, so I already knew exactly how I wanted the codec to be setup. The results from those first two shoots were great, nobody would have ever known I had never used the camera before.

 

After my first (horrible) experience using the FS7 in the same manor (getting to set and seeing the camera for the first time), on the 2nd more time consuming shoot, I actually went to the rental house and set it up to insure there would be no problems on set. I had a technician go through the camera with me and it seemed all ok. I could have rented a Dragon or Alexa, but because everyone on here talked so much hype about the F5, I decided to bite the bullet. When I got to set, I realized I was completely wrong. We had a lot of issues with finding white balance. I had a camera crew of 3 people and one of them was very familiar with the Sony cameras, he made lots of phone calls and it took me going online at lunch to figure out you can't adjust the white balance in SLog mode outside of the presets. Now, I shoot everything at around 6000 - 6500k with digital cameras interior with HMI's. The F5 was limited to 5600, which meant everything looked super cold. So my gaffing team had to go around to each of the HMI's (we had 6 I think) and put gels on flags in front of each one. It took us hours and the net result? We ran out of time **(obscenity removed)** around with poop and we had to just shoot. I figured we'd have enough to work with in post, but I was wrong. It just looked like poop, it was the worst thing I had shot for 20 years and I was horribly embarrassed. Again, never would have been a problem on a Red or Alexa.

 

I did maybe a dozen Dragon, Alexa, C300, blackmagic and Film, shoots between that F5 experience and the next shoot with the same filmmaker. We talked about cameras and neither one of us wanted to use Sony, however all of the rental houses were out of Dragon's and Alexa XT's during the week we were shooting and I couldn't talk him into using an Ursa Mini. I must have spent three days trying to score TWO identical camera packages. I had no choice but to rent the only camera the rental houses had... the one nobody ever rents, the F55. I told the director and he wasn't upset and my AC and gaffing team knew the issues, so we'd be ready right? First part of the shoot went ok, all the exteriors looked fine, no real beefs. Then we moved interior, things seemed to be ok for a while, but eventually poop fell apart. We starting having the same issues as the last one with color balance and getting good skin tones. Now we also couldn't control all of the lighting interior, so it would have been a problem no matter what. Yet, I was just frustrated and didn't understand why these cameras just don't look good! I would look at the monitor and I would want to puke. We tried all sorts of crazy lighting rigs to try and warm things up and it worked sometimes, but not others. Eventually we just gave up and again, finished the show because we didn't have the time to **(obscenity removed)** around on set. My gaffing team is top notch, really awesome guys, led by a very good DP in his own right. So when we had issues, they knew how to solve them, but everyone scratched their heads when looking at the monitors.

 

I don't know how much "testing" one needs to do in order to make something look good, but after doing three shoots on these particular Sony cameras, I had quite a bit of seat time. We shot for around a month on the F55 shoot, it was quite a bit of work for a multi-piece industrial. I got plenty of seat time, no more "testing" would have concluded anything but my continued hatred for the color science, menus and locked out functions. My comments are echoed with most professional cinematographers I talk with, which is a lot. I've also received several PM's about this thread, other people complaining who didn't wanna comment on this thread because they didn't wanna get people stomping on them. I'm vocal about things because frankly, someone has to be.

 

I'm glad the cameras work for some people... they just don't work for me and they are THE ONLY camera I've ever touched in my entire life, that doesn't work for me.

Tyler, I get it.

 

I've not used the Sony cameras, but I do use the user adjustable WB on the Alexa all the time.

In prep, I test every ND filter and lens for color balance (they differ a lot!) and have presets ready in the camera for each filter to achieve close to neutral WB. It's not so critical, as we grade the movies after editing, but it makes the one light/one LUT dailies look much better!

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When you own something, when it's YOUR MONEY on the line, you tend to think differently when it's someone else's.

 

Actually it's something far more valuable than money that's on the line.

 

Reputation.

 

I prefer to take more concern when it's my reputation on the line. It's a shame you worry about money instead of the work.

 

People don't hire a camera, they hire the DP.

 

Your continued myopic supposition that those that rent somehow are more invested or know better than those that don't is deeply flawed.

 

I do hope your reputation will precede you.

 

First time I used the Dragon and Alexa XT, I had never used either camera. I showed up on set, the camera package was in a box, I assembled it, configured the camera (ISO/Shutter angle/white balance) and shot. Took me around 5 minutes to get the features/functions I use onto the EVF and that was all I needed. I had already worked with R3D (red code) and Pro Res (alexa) files before, so I already knew exactly how I wanted the codec to be setup. The results from those first two shoots were great, nobody would have ever known I had never used the camera before.

 

That explain's it.

 

I don't know any professional or even aspiring professional camera department crew that would just wing something like that. That's what film students do, not someone that cares about craft.

 

And you have the gall to call someone out for pointing out a design flaw that you don't even know or understand, most likely because you never got past the first 5 mins of working out the camera "out of the box".

 

I'm glad I'm not one of your clients.

 

 

Then we moved interior, things seemed to be ok for a while, but eventually poop fell apart. We starting having the same issues as the last one with color balance and getting good skin tones. Now we also couldn't control all of the lighting interior, so it would have been a problem no matter what. Yet, I was just frustrated and didn't understand why these cameras just don't look good! I would look at the monitor and I would want to puke. We tried all sorts of crazy lighting rigs to try and warm things up and it worked sometimes, but not others. Eventually we just gave up and again, finished the show because we didn't have the time to **(obscenity removed)** around on set. My gaffing team is top notch, really awesome guys, led by a very good DP in his own right. So when we had issues, they knew how to solve them, but everyone scratched their heads when looking at the monitors.

 

Maybe you need to spend more than 5 mins using one out of the box. Maybe your natural talent wasn't up to the task of mastering a camera that doesn't just work out of the box like you want it to.

 

You've actually proven my point, and demonstrated how naive you are to think that you can get away with winging it like that. I mean really...your complaint is that it doesn't work out of the box like a RED or Alexa did for you ? And yet you disparage those that suggest testing. Your "seat" time was on a job where by your own admission, you dind't have time to **(obscenity removed)** around.

 

That's not testing or seat time. That's laziness.

 

My friend that's ALL ON YOU. You're someone who blames the tools instead of mastering them, no matter how difficult they are. You either chose the wrong tool in the first place or didn't have the skill to make it do what you wanted.

 

Every single camera out there has it's issues. If you can't be bothered learning how to get the most out of any tool you're tasked with using or chose to stake your reputation on then I don't think you get to whinge about it with any credibility on a public forum like you are now.

 

JB

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Tyler doesn't sound like your AC did actually know about Sony cameras.. the F5/55 have been out around 5 years now and have the same WB set up in Cine EI mode.. and he /she didnt know this !!.. its very basic knowledge of anyone who has shot Slog with that camera..they could have found that out on line, in under 30 seconds..

 

Just for the record.. Sony,s idea is that WB is gain.. and actually its better for grading to keep a uniform (3 preset) .. no gain .. WB with SLOG ,as the footage will have to be graded .. and instead of making small adjustments with gels on set, so a monitor looks perfect.. these adjustments will be done in post..and empirically it seems like many DP,s around the work can get very nice images from this system.. The Crown etc..

 

Im not saying its a good/best way to do it.. but thats what Sony say.. sorry to put this chestnut in the fire again.. but it does really seem to be yourself and your crew did not really have a good understanding of shooting LOG gamma curves.. or the working of the camera on top of that.. and so you had problems.. I just dont want others, who read this forum,who might never have used the F5/55 Fs7 to be put off trying them out.. due to your original "rant" post..

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Tyler, is the shoot you've just described the same one that you talked about before, where you posted some still frames? The one where Mark Kenfield and Adrian Sierkowski demonstrated to you that your problems were not camera related, but were actually tied to your inability to correctly apply a LUT?

 

You talk about being 'a film guy' but then complain about being restricted to only 3 white balance settings. Well, that's one more than you get with film. You say your HMIs looked super blue and cold when the camera was balanced at 5600K. Well, that seems unlikely, as that what HMIs are balanced for.

 

Every single thing you say about these cameras suggests that the problems you had were entirely of your own making.

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I absolutely wholeheartedly agree the problems were mostly "labor" related, otherwise I wouldn't have written a detailed story that clearly spells that out. I just used the same techniques I've used on ALL the other CMOS cameras I've ever used, the results were just not there.

 

I've also had nothing but problems with the LUT's... something I've never had a problem with on any camera system. Don't get me started in the post production nightmare that is Sony SLog and 4k XAVC.

 

My point is... the artist, should not need to learn an entirely different camera system. My job is to make an image that looks good on set and the camera's job is to capture that image, not "interpret" the image. I have zero interest using a camera system that requires me to rethink the way I work. I don't want to learn new paint brushes, I don't want to learn new paints, I want to fine tune the skills I already have.

 

So yes, it was a MISTAKE to even try these cameras... which is sad man. I loved my Sony CCD ENG cameras, they did exactly what I wanted and they created a great image. Maybe someday I will revisit Sony when they have different cameras, but for the time being, the door is closed for me. I will stick with the Red, Alexa and Blackmagic digital cameras. I can get really great images out of them without thinking, so I can spend my time working with lenses, lights and camera moves, instead of "technology".

 

Ohh and Stewart, your comment about daylight film... nothing digital compares to the warmth and skin tones of film, especially in daylight situations. It's a beautiful thing that many cinematographers forget until they go BACK to using film.

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But Slog3 is very very close to Arri LogC.. they are almost identical.. thats why Sony made it.. both are based on the kodak cineon curve.. the slog3.cine ..sub set color gamut setting,primaries line up with P3/Rec709.. its really not hard to grade at all.. well you would need some experience with LOG footage I guess ..

 

Shooting any LOG .. you will have to apply a LUT to any monitors on set.. well unless you want your clients and dir to watch a totally washed out .. no contrast and virtually colorless image.. surely this is the same with Arri/RED or any LOG recording camera..?.. standard gammas sure .. but LOG from the camera is never really meant to be seen anyway .. ?

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I've been coloring with LOG for around 4 years now, ever since DaVinci started to work properly. I shoot LOG with my Blackmagic cameras and Red Dragon monthly, those are my two "go two" cameras for digital. I've done a few C series shows, C100, C300MKII and C500, usually shot with CLog. My experience grading Alexa footage is weak, I've only done it a hand full of times because the two shows I did with Alexa, were both finished by someone else. Needless to say, I use the base DaVinci LUT's to start with, which allows me to get RGB balance and proper luminance as my first pass.

 

On set, I generally use the internal display LUT for the HDSDI output and EVF on the cameras. I usually don't run a video village, I'm very much against that. If I MUST run a village due to the director needing more then a small portable LCD monitor for framing reference, I will calibrate it with bars and make sure it matches my viewfinder color wise. It's sometimes hard to do that, but if it's even remotely close, I'm happy because when they see the image, I know it's what I'm seeing in the viewfinder. As a side note, on the F55 shoot, the EVF and monitors looked identical, I had very little to be concerned about with the way things looked on set. Even though I was unhappy with the color balance and a lot of other nitpicky things, I felt if the files looked like that, it would be easy to fix the problem later.

 

Now usually, when I get home my first day from a shoot, I will plug in one of the cards and check the files. However, on the F55 show, I had a DIT and that was his job because we were shooting too damn fast. It wasn't until our 2nd day, that he started looking at the files and raised a red flag about how underexposed they looked. We both went to the camera and I showed him the histogram, I showed him the zeabra's, I even had a meter and showed him how it was right on the money exposure wise, yet the files looked around 2 stops UNDER exposed. This is a common occurrence with Red files when the wrong LUT is used. Since everything in my gut said the files could be fixed in post, for continuity reasons, we just kept shooting the same way. Meanwhile my DIT... (who is a good friend of mine and I will not throw him under the bus), went to work finding a solution. When he exhausted his resources, we called around and talked to a few guys, who basically said the same LUT's we were using, were the same LUT's they used. The shoot was 15 pages a day and it was complex multi-camera moves and I had to direct all of the staging myself, it was a real bitch and a half, so I didn't have any time to deal with the LUT's. When we were done with the shoot, I got the drive from my DIT and brought it home for a 3 month editing process. The files were already transcoded to DNXHD for Avid and they imported very smoothly, with audio attached, my workflow worked wonderfully. Yet, the first files I opened, were still under exposed, more so then Avid can even fix internally with it's grading tools. So I edited the show, did the best grade in Avid I could and then re-graded all the bad shots in DaVinci. It was a very time consuming process because the show has lots of little green screen shots and we went about a week over-time as I had to re-process something like 200 clips by hand. Just an FYI, I had just finished a feature shot with C300MKII that needed A LOT of work, but the entire grade took me a week. Where just the fixes for this F55 show took me a week, that's how complicated the issues were. When you'd raise the luminance, you'd blow out the background and the color would shift dramatically (green screen work). So I had to build traveling mattes for the background to roto them out and keep them from blowing up. I made a few templates in DaVinci using the freeze frame tool and basically applied it to all the shots and manually re-did the mattes. The net result was a MUCH BETTER grade then the original, but nothing compared to a proper grade.

 

Now I'm not much of a green screen guy, but I've shot some really shitty green screens before and yes they were a bitch to color, but I've never had these same problems. Plus, the shoot had only SOME green screen, even the normal live action stuff had issues in some places, mostly related to contrast between bright and dark sections. It's not a complex show, it's just an industrial, but I treat all of my projects with the mentality of them being a short film or feature. So where you may think the finished product looks ok, the amount of heartache that went into the post process to make it look that way, was something that I've not really experienced before. It's also not the way it's suppose to be because if it was, nobody would use Sony... ohh wait, I still wondered why the F5 and F55 were THE ONLY cameras the rental houses had available. :P

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Well yes you must have had some technical or camera problem then.. because if anything you want to over expose LOG .. under expose wil give you noise.. but if your AC ,who you said was very familiar with Sony cameras .. didnt even know that in Cine EI mode WB is locked to preset.. sorry but that person didn't know much about Sony cameras.. thats a very basic skill set/knowledge of anyone with even a small amount of experience of Sony f5/55 fs7.. which does makes me believe.. with due respect.. there was obviously a sizable experience/ knowledge gap between yourself and your trusted AC.. with this camera and Slog settings/in general ..

 

The f55 is pretty popular the days.. esp with the netflix 4K thing.. the fs7 is often rented as a cheaper f5..

 

But just as a final point.. there are many ,many people getting very good results out of the f5.f55 fs7 .. all around the world.. and even more with the fs7..they have had massive sales globally .. and arguably the most used camera on the planet at the moment.. to the point were Zeiss release their most recent cine zoom lenses only with E mount !!

 

I really feel you had some camera setting wrong.. that uniformly made everything under exposed.. most likely your LUT to scope /WFM settings.. you know they read the LUT right.. not the under lying Slog..?? the fs7 can you actually chose.. pre LUT or post LUT.. its just impossible for the camera itself to take your readings and magically under expose everything.. or you recorded the LUT .. also easily done on the f5/55 if you dont know the settings .. logic just has to point to user error.. with this particular camera ..

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I have zero interest using a camera system that requires me to rethink the way I work. I don't want to learn new paint brushes, I don't want to learn new paints, I want to fine tune the skills I already have.

 

 

Seems weird to me that a self-described 'educator' would refuse to learn new skills.

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Seems weird to me that a self-described 'educator' would refuse to learn new skills.

No... I refuse to let the camera dictate which paint brushes and paint I'm allowed to use. Again, the camera is an imaging device, if it can't accept the techniques I use for every other camera, I don't see the purpose of using it.

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