Could You Recommend a Consumer-level Video-editing Program?

[Alexandros Angelopoulos Apostolos]

I was looking at PowerDirector 15 and was wondering if there was anything else recommendable out there.

[Tyler Purcell]

Sony Vegas? It's not that expensive and does quite a bit.

[Alexandros Angelopoulos Apostolos]

I wondered about that. I remember it as something ancient, since I used it quite a long time ago and wondered if it even exists. Thank you! I'll look it up now. :)

Edited March 13, 2017 by Alexandros Angelopoulos Apostolos

[Landon D. Parks]

Why not Hitfilm? While the Pro version might be a little above consumer level, the free Express version has pretty much any feature that would be needed by a consumer - and the best part - its free and from a respected software player. Vegas is an option, but the pro versions are at least $500 (or use to be), and its really not consumer level at all - more broadcast level maybe. Vegas does have the movie studio editions, which are on par with Magix software offerings and PowerDirector, but if your going to go that route, the Express version of hitfilm will do pretty much anything those will and will save you $50-$100.

 

Hitfilm Express has effects tools too, like keying, 3D particles, and a full 3D open-cl engine. This is in addition to the editing and audio interfaces. And, if you need more tools in the future, you can upgrade to Hitfilm Pro (around $300) and take advantage of a full indie-film post production package.

 

See: www.hitfilm.com/express

 

There is also Davinci Resolve - which is also free and includes a nice editor, color corrector, and output tools - but it has a steep learning curve, has very little audio or effects tools, and is far from consumer-level.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Landon D. Parks

[Tyler Purcell]

DaVinci needs a good graphics card to work tho, so that's one downside.

[Landon D. Parks]

I agree. Resolve is probably not a good option - I was just putting it out there since it is free to download and play with; added more as an afterthought than anything.

 

I still say in the arena he is looking at, Hitfilm Express is a perfect fit.

[Max Field]

If "consumer-level" is all you need, Vegas crushes every consumer level editor into pieces. Extremely easy and fast workflow. Not the most stable, but I control-S a lot and never run into problems with that.

[Landon D. Parks]

But is Vega's really consumer-level? It's probably on-par with Premiere Pro, which means it has a learning curve and more features than most consumers could ever find a use for. It's also $300 to buy. Personally, if I was going into this arena today I'd go with Hitfilm Express. From someone who has used Hitfilm Pro in the past, I can tell you that the program is very stable - fairly easy to navigate for a newbie, has plenty of output options, and more. The express version is also really good, and is basically a limited version of the Pro edition. Of course I don't use Hitfilm much any longer, having moved onto Resolve for edits and color, Protools for audio, and Fusion for VFX, and Ae for titles - but people are doing amazing work with hitfilm software.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Landon D. Parks

[Brian Drysdale]

Quite a few consumers use Lightworks. Like all professional NLEs there's a learning curve, although the shortly due for release V14 has a fixed layout option, which new users may find more friendly. It will run on lower powered computers, although in doing so you'll have to transcode and possibly use proxy editing with the compressed HD codecs commonly used today.

 

There is a free version with limited export to 720p suitable for Youtube, the Pro version has a monthly (it reverts back to free, so you can still use it), yearly and outright licenses, the last two come bundled with Boris software. Some users just take out the monthly subscription to export a finished project.

[Landon D. Parks]

The fact that Lightworks free only allows exporting to YouTube and Vimeo is troubling for me. Why set yourself up for such limitations if its not required? The last time I used Lightworks I didn't find it appealing at all. Not saying others won't, but I'm not aware of anything Lightworks does that Hitfilm Express does not do as good or better, and Hitfilm Pro is the same price as upgrading Lightworks to professional - and Hitfilm includes a full effects, titling suite, and mocha integration. Even the free version of hitfilm does not limit you to exporting only to YouTube and Vimeo.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Landon D. Parks

[Brian Drysdale]

NLEs are personal things people like one and not another , I suspect the 720p limitation is due to the licensing costs and in the end Lightworks want users to move up to the Pro version.However, you are not limited to exporting to online with the free version, you can also export to your hard drive. Lightworks is designed for editing Long form narrative productions with collaborative teams, so is like Avid in that respect.

 

If you take out a one year or an outright license with Lightworks, you get Boris software bundled with it.

[Max Field]

But is Vega's really consumer-level?

I've never really believed in certain middle-man terms like "prosumer". Either the industry messes with it or they don't. I find it very difficult to find someone making a living off editing using Vegas. Sure you could find one or two guys, but in the grand scheme of statistics they are the exception, not the rule.

 

Everyone I've ever met under 17 getting into video editing (a bit under 100 people) would start with Windows Movie Maker and end up pirating Sony Vegas, learning full-control editing that way. I honestly wonder if the company owning that software in particular even cares, cause they've made no effort to slow down people from doing that, as opposed to Adobe or AVID.

[Tyler Purcell]

Vegas isn't really a professional piece of software because it's very limiting in terms of it's codec's and computers it can run on.

 

As I've said many times, the industry runs on Pro Res and DNX. If you can't do those two codec's, the software is worthless as a professional tool. Nobody takes MPEG files as master deliverables.

 

Furthermore, most cameras today shoot quite a bit of "raw" codec's. So being able to support those, is very critical.

 

This is why Avid, Premiere and DaVinci are the three top tools used today.

[Brian Drysdale]

Vegas does get used by professionals running small self contained companies or single person outfits, say in the corporate sector or similar, but it's not the best choice for people wanting to work as a freelance editor. .I gather the latest version can use ProRes and it can also handle Redcode.

[Max Field]

As of Pro 12, yes is can run both of those files you mentioned.

[Tyler Purcell]

But it can't "export" Pro Res... that's the problem.

[Max Field]

The highest codec I've seen Vegas do by DEFAULT is the XDCAM format cameras like the F3 record internally to. I also suppose one could render to Sony's AVC codec and set the bit rate super high. There's a free plugin pack that lets you export Raw uncompressed but that isn't necessarily practical in many situations.

 

As of now I have not seen Vegas have ProRes export features either. But if Red Cine X can do it on Windows machines there is hope for it one day.

[Brian Drysdale]

The non Pro Res export isn't an issue for many professional purposes, Pro Res isn't a delivery format for many broadcasters.

 

The current formats from Magix site: DVD, Blu-ray Disc, AVCHD Disc, (DV-)AVI, MJPEG, MXF, MOV, WMV, XAVC, XAVC S, MPEG-1/2/4, H.264/AVC, H.265/HEVC, WAV, MP3, BMP, PNG, JPEG, TIFF, OpenEXR- , DPX- and WDP image sequences

[Max Field]

I mean, in my line of work and exporting from program to program etc. Vegas lifting that bottleneck could seriously propel itself into consideration for industry standard.

 

Codecs and stability are the only things I dislike about Vegas (pretty sizable, I know). Everything else with that program is fantastic.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Macks Fiiod

[Matt Thomas]

Big fan of DaVinci over here, and it's free.

 

Can bog down (if your files are 4K RED) but there are work arounds, and it's free.

 

The color grading is awesome, and it's free.

 

You can export in a lot of different ways, and it's free.

 

You know what it's actually pretty powerful, for how free it is.

[Brian Drysdale]

Deciding on a NLE depends on what type of production you want to edit, which camera you're planning to use, where it's going to be screened and how powerful your computer is..

 

Regarding Vegas there are number of products bearing that name, some consumer, then Vegas Pro, which is the professional product and costs a lot more.

 

http://www.vegascreativesoftware.com/us/vegas-movie-studio/?cHash=f93edf9ea92245a4627f7a1c7e006aca

[Tyler Purcell]

The non Pro Res export isn't an issue for many professional purposes, Pro Res isn't a delivery format for many broadcasters.

In the united states, Pro Res in the industry standard for everything outside of broadcast, this is because broadcast is still interlaced 1080i, they generally want a 59.94 iFrame MPEG file. Most of the time we simply deliver interlaced DNX straight out of our edit bay.

 

When you're dealing with delivery for distribution outside of broadcast, you work with a content aggregator. Almost all of the aggregators in the US are here in So Cal and I know their workflows very well. They all require Pro Res deliverables, no matter what. There are no if's and's or but's about it. You can't make Pro Res? You aren't delivering anything to iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, etc..

 

Outside of content aggregation and broadcast, most people still want an iframe codec. This is why the non-broadcast industry no matter what, still uses Pro Res and DNX, as not only their working formats, but also for final delivery. There really isn't anything "better" or as robust without going to speciality formats like JPEG2000, which is hard for computers to decode. The great thing about Pro Res is that it has a multi-threaded decoding engine, which allows for the decoding and encoding to be spread across multiple threads, vs simply cores. This means it works very smoothly at pretty much any resolution, on pretty much any computer. This is not the case with MOST formats.

[Brian Drysdale]

There are a number of post productions products that can't directly export ProRes. I understand that Includes Resolve on Windows, so you have transcode your master for delivery on third party software. LOL It seems some Windows ProRes doesn't play that well on Macs (surprise, surprise)..

[Landon D. Parks]

They all require Pro Res deliverables, no matter what. There are no if's and's or but's about it. You can't make Pro Res? You aren't delivering anything to iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, etc..

 

Some do require ProRes, but not all of them, so its not correct to say you aren't going to deliver to these places outside of providing a ProRes file. For that matter, most places doing any sort of post work should be able to afford a cheap, old MAC that they can load the DNxHR into and spit out a ProRes file - it wouldn't take some super-Mac to accomplish that. Here at my studio, I keep an older Macbook around just for that purpose. Even IF you don't directly have access to a Mac, you probably know a friend who does who you could shoot a couple bucks to use it temporarily.

 

I'm just saying, it's not like not exporting ProRes is a death sentence. There are plenty of workarounds.

 

Also, the aggregator I have worked with in the past, KinoNation, requires DNx or ProRes files, and they deliver to iTunes, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and tons more. Amazon's video direct platform does not require ProRes either.

[Tyler Purcell]

Some do require ProRes, but not all of them, so its not correct to say you aren't going to deliver to these places outside of providing a ProRes file. For that matter, most places doing any sort of post work should be able to afford a cheap, old MAC that they can load the DNxHR into and spit out a ProRes file - it wouldn't take some super-Mac to accomplish that. Here at my studio, I keep an older Macbook around just for that purpose. Even IF you don't directly have access to a Mac, you probably know a friend who does who you could shoot a couple bucks to use it temporarily.

So... don't spend the $1500 bux to buy a used dual proc, 12 core, 3.46ghz intel mac... so you can have a cheaper windows machine?

 

Personally, I'd rather have the mac for built-in Pro Res, for built-in support for everything, for no viruses and malware ever and honestly, all of the best post production software, some of which doesn't exist on windows.

 

I mean, I get it... you got $500 bux to buy a computer that actually works? Ok... build your own computer from the ground up and you deal with those limitations. I get the business that lease workstations using HP's or Dell's and has a full-time in-house IT staff to keep them working. What I don't get is the independent filmmaker who needs all these things, but chooses PC's and Windows. It just complicates a non-complicated situation and forces you to use things like Sony Vegas as an editing tool instead of Final Cut Pro X, which is practically free and works like gangbusters with EVERYTHING.

 

Also, the aggregator I have worked with in the past, KinoNation, requires DNx or ProRes files, and they deliver to iTunes, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, and tons more. Amazon's video direct platform does not require ProRes either.

Sure, and Vegas doesn't support Pro Res or DNX natively. In fact, even with the Avid DNX plugin bundle, you're limited to DNX220 as the highest quality output.

 

Again, my system does every flavor of Pro Res from proxy to XQ, and every flavor of DNX from 8 bit standard DNX to 12 bit DNX-HR, without mucking with anything really.

 

But :cough: that's because I use real software packages... not toys like Sony Vegas.