I have the stock, what camera?

Dan Hasson · July 6, 2017

Recently I acquired a few rolls of 16mm. 400ft Kodak Vision3 200T. I'd prefer to shoot on a Bolex to say an Arri 416, SR3 or Aaton (because I'd prefer a smaller camera). However I'm not not sure on a couple of things:

- Can 400ft rolls be used in a Bolex camera?

- Can I use a Bolex camera to shoot Super 16 instead of regular 16?

Thanks,

Dan

Nicholas Kovats · July 6, 2017

Dan,

The Bolex becomes a cumbersome beast indeed if shooting with the vertical 400ft magazine. Not conducive to handheld shooting, i.e. http://bolexh16user.net/400ftFilmMagazine.htm. The Arri and Aaton 400ft co-axial are ideally suited to over the shoulder handheld shooting.

The Bolex regular 16mm cameras are converted to Super 16 format if need be. Expensive conversion but Super 16 Bolex conversions appear frequently on eBay albeit the few examples I found currently listed are pricey. But if your determined to shoot 400ft loads with the Bolex then I would advise you to check out cinematography member, Robert Ditto pristine Bolex regular package for sale with two (2) 400ft mags. Great price and Robert takes great care with his equipment including his own repairs and modifications, i.e. https://tinyurl.com/yacvkw6g.

Check out my scan of my Bolex Regular 16mm footage scanned at 3.5K (48fps w/ 10mm lens), i.e.

Thanks for considering film.

Nicholas

Edited July 6, 2017 by Nicholas Kovats

Max Field · July 6, 2017

I hear good things of the Aaton XTR

Dom Jaeger · July 7, 2017

A Bolex with 400' mag is probably no smaller, and certainly more unwieldy, than the other cameras you listed. Bolexes are really best suited for 100' daylight spools. They are also not quiet, so if you intend to shoot dialogue, choose another camera.

If you just want to experiment with the few rolls you have, I would recommend renting a camera and some lenses (or just one lens) for a weekend. Otherwise it can be a time-consuming and confusing rabbit-hole trying to get everything you might need, with no guarantee it will all work. A rental house can also give you some tips on loading and whatever extras you might need.

Gregg MacPherson · July 7, 2017

Recently I acquired a few rolls of 16mm. 400ft

What sort of projects or learning process are you interested in with film? 400' loads may not be required. You or the lab can break those down. If you want an intimate, tactile connection with film and the aesthetic potential you can do that with a Bolex, 100' loads.

If your ideas for the first project are all naturalistic narratives and you need a quiet camera with 400' loads then I hate to say it, but the potential of the film medium itself may wasted. It's harder and more expensive to learn on those kinds of projects.

Dan Hasson · July 7, 2017

Thanks for all the responses guys. Really helpful. I just wanted to use a bolex because I thought they were smaller/lightweight.

But if an Arri or Aaton is the way to go then I'll look more into those.

Dan Hasson · July 7, 2017

What sort of projects or learning process are you interested in with film? 400' loads may not be requiredI

I have a script ready. I was just lucky enough to get my hands on some 400ft mags for cheap. So I bought them and believe they'll work for the story.

Tim Carroll · July 7, 2017

If your script has much dialog, an Aaton LTR or XTR of ARRIFLEX 16SR or SRII might be the way to go. That or plan on doing some creative ADR in post.

If you don't mind using an MOS camera, or your film has little dialog, you might go with a Bolex, but again, the 400ft mags make a tripod almost a necessity. Another good choice would be an ARRIFLEX 16S or 16S/B, not too unwieldy even with the 400ft mags, or even an ARRIFLEX 16M or M/B, which is primarily a 400ft mag camera. Lots of options out there. Might also be dependent on what glass you can find.

Best,

-Tim

Tyler Purcell · July 8, 2017

Thanks for all the responses guys. Really helpful. I just wanted to use a bolex because I thought they were smaller/lightweight.

But if an Arri or Aaton is the way to go then I'll look more into those.

The bolex just puts the camera body vertical instead of horizontal. So it's still a pretty decent sized camera, especially with the 400ft magazine. I shoot a lot with my Bolex EBM and where it IS a battery camera, so it's heavier then a wind up H16, they're all pretty difficult to hand held and get a nice stable shot due to the weight. The silent 400ft magazine cameras, are generally really easy to hand held. I'd go as far as to say my XTR with no film, weighs close to my Bolex EBM. Obviously once you add 400ft roll of film, it weighs any camera down substantially.

The Aaton XTR is the way to roll in my opinion, not just because I've owned two, but because I've also owned the competition. Aaton did something magical with the XTR, it's just the best operating S16 camera I've ever seen. Now I updated mine to run of NP1 Lithium batteries, so that helps as well. I also have a few added Aaton accessories that generally don't come with cameras on ebay like an extension viewfinder, rail system, Aaton grip, better video tap, etc... but you can get that stuff if you're patient and only buy a complete package.

Of course, its then down to price and it's going up exponentially. Right now, XTR's are going for $3500 - $5000 depending on accessories. Where Bolex cameras with 400ft magazines are less then $1000 USD. So that's something to think about for sure, but you want a quiet sync sound camera for dialog work, if you want a lightweight modern package that takes standard cinema glass, if you want something that will just work every time and uses standard accessories... XTR man, look no further.

Chris Burke · July 8, 2017

Is it me or are the fire sale prices of great film cameras a thing of the past? On ebay, you used to see plenty of equipment at rock bottom pricing. In the past say three years prices have crept up and availability has gone down. It seems like people who own gear are hanging on to them.

I second the vote for an XTR. They are great cameras and make shooting very easy.

Dan Hasson · July 9, 2017

The Aaton XTR is the way to roll in my opinion,

Thanks Tyler. I'll look more into the Aaton but from what you say it sounds like the camera to go with.

I second the vote for an XTR. They are great cameras and make shooting very easy.

Thanks Chris. I'm definitely going to look more into using an XTR.

Pavan Deep · July 10, 2017

Some great responses here, I just wanted to add that maybe it would be a good idea to ask people locally as there might be someone willing to lend the gear. A great camera is the Éclair ACL that shouldn't be over looked, there are plenty of them about, they are smaller with the 200ft magazine and have much more lens choices.

An important point raised here about prices of gear, I have noticed that prices of cameras are slowly going up and good deals are becoming harder to find. I think this could be because there is a renewed interest in analogue film. It's now easier to get services where you buy film, get it processed and scanned.

Pav