Lets make a cinematographers FILM !

[Algis Kemezys]

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.

Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter. It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

[Filip Plesha]

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.

Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter.  It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I can think of some visual-only films, for example short films shot by Guy Bourdin on 16mm Kodachrome.

[Chance Shirley]

I think making a cinematography.com "chain-letter" movie would be fun.

 

However, when I'm lucky enough to get to DP a movie, I have no problem being told what to do by a director with an "untrained eye." The way I see it, when I'm DP, my job is to do whatever I can to get the director the shot he wants. I'll let him know if I think a shot isn't going to work, but if he insists on a "bad" shot, that's his right as director.

[Micah Fernandez]

Won't the 'bad' shots reflect on us though? I'm worried because I've been involved in a tragically unprepared Indian short, and though I tried my best to make each frame to look as best as I could (even to the point of overstepping my role into the unhelpful production designer's) a lot of the shots would not pass my approval if I were directing.

 

Chain stories are usually done online. A chain movie sounds like an interesting idea.

[Chance Shirley]

Won't the 'bad' shots reflect on us though?

 

Good point. Maybe a DP with more experience than me could clear up the issue of how much control a cinematographer has (or should have) on a movie set.

[Dan Salzmann]

The role of the cinematographer is to interpret the director's vision. I don't see this as a competition but as a collaboration. Movies or more precisely the dynamic behind their creation often involves what some may see as overstepping or overlapping into different departments.

Often the DP must communicate certain needs to the set designer, wardrobe person, make-up artist etc.

All this requires tact, psychology and a non-domineering attitude.

The director is like an orchestra conductor that oversees the BIG picture but can not play all the instruments - that's what the musicians are for.

It is definitely bad to have a "power struggle" type attitude in a film production.

Sometimes interesting approaches can come from a director's "bad ideas".

If I am asked to do something that is clearly not good I will explain why to the director in clear and non-condescending terms.

If the director really insists on something lame I usually will do it if it does not upset the production schedule and shoot another version for coverage. This "path of least resistance" can often save time if the discussion is obviously going to take longer than just shooting and then getting on with it.

In the end we are all there for the same reason - To make the best possible film with the time and resources that are available.

[Micah Fernandez]

If the director really insists on something lame I usually will do it if it does not upset the production schedule and shoot another version for coverage. This "path of least resistance" can often save time if the discussion is obviously going to take longer than just shooting and then getting on with it.

Is this the general rule/sentiment? I thought I was just being lazy and taking the easy way out by shutting up and setting up in silence.

[DavidSloan]

Is this the general rule/sentiment? I thought I was just being lazy and taking the easy way out by shutting up and setting up in silence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well suppose a director asks you for a certain angle and you refuse. Do you think you'll get much work, after that? LOL :lol:

[jon w]

The cool thing about this board is that the members range from students to working proffesionals (and everything inbetween).

 

myself in the mid to lower part of the catagory. still shooting a lot of free stuff to build my reel / experience. which means that for a while i'll be working with directors that are fairly new. this is frustrating because no matter how much work you put in, and how great the footage is, if anyone else in the chain isnt up to par, the whole project suffers. there are a dozen shorts out there that i shot, that i would never show to anyone because of how bad they are, even if im proud of how they look! depressing and discouraging.

 

my hope is that once more established, i'll be working with with directors (and everyone else) that are more established, and everything will be ok.

 

i want to learn from the director, and feel confident in him/her, but its hard at this stage of the game.

[Rik Andino]

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.

Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter.  It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Great here another DP who wants to be a Director.

Hopefully when you direct your "Cinematographers" film

You won't give the actors poor or no direction...

Because worse than a badly shot film is a badly acted film.

 

You shouldn't attack Directors they're most of us bread & butter...

There's not much money shooting for yourself. :)

[drew_town]

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.

Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter.  It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Directors are pale with cinematographers telling them how to direct. You need to find someone you can actually work with, not compete with, because quite frankly most cinematographers don't make the best or even good directors.

[Algis Kemezys]

HeLLO ! Thank you all for answering.

I guess while celebrating my birthday I sounded a bit over zealous. I think you all made great points.

True it's fantastic being a collaborator ans interpreter to a good story and director.Truely thats what it is all about. Maybe Cinematographer is a Documentary... I guess I just like cinematographers who went on to be great film makers Like Lean and Kubrick. I have actually found obsticles or perameters set by the Director can make you invent wonderfull new things that you on your own never would produce.

That is truely one of the best feelings.And I have really scored with that.

Edited June 29, 2005 by Algis Kemezys

[Matt Pacini]

Look I am pale with directors telling us cinematographers what their uneducated eye dictates.

Couldn"t we make our own film ? A film by us for them who regard for us as real talent. I want to do it. It will be like a chain letter.  It could be many different things..... Anyone interested ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Your statement/suggestion reeks of just the sort of lack of faith in their talent and abilities, as you are complaining about.

Pot calling the kettle black, it seems.

 

If you think directing a film is easy, (and if you think a film looking "pretty" is just as important as a well directed story and good performances coaxed from actors) then I think you SHOULD go ahead and make your movie.

 

MP

[Algis Kemezys]

I guess what I said above there was a bit too biased for anyones good. True I have enjoyed in the past the parameters given to me by those in charge and worked with those ideas tio produce something that was greater than I would have created otherwise. In the end I thought wow I created that under those directions. The cinematographers film would be something of a chain letter type approach but in todays world very few people have the time or gumption to work outside of the box where there is no funding to help people out. Instead I am leaning to a film idea where cinematographer offer there greatest clips into something that explores this dynamic as an exercise in the compiled documented footage but by putting many people work all together in a David lynch type way might prove interesting. If a photography magazine can put out an issue devoted to particular type imagery certainly a cinematographers film showing the best footage in many different situuations would be compelling in it's visual style and commitment to the art of the New mellenium.

 

I guess when I made that above claim I was workling with someone who wanted me to only really fill the frame with the face and that to me seemed like a greater waste of time and cinematography because the surrounding information in any portrait comes from the stategic placing of the subject in context to their lifestyle. I was simply thinking how did this directior get ther funding to create something that only took peoples faces into account with the details of their life in the surrounding place of exposure.

 

Thanks everyone for being inspired enough to write and sorry about coming off as a rouge cinematographer provocature.

[Guest]

The most important part of any movie is the script. If you have an incredible script it's hard for even the worst film making team to make it a complete disaster.

 

The cinematographer is just another guy who uses his talents to support the script. The movie should never be a "cinematographer's movie," it's not about the DOP. It's about the story.

 

I would rank great actors, after the script, in terms of importance.

 

R,

[Guest jeremy edge]

I think in the last few years we have seen the emergence of more directors who make sure their dp is a "Bad Ass MF" and want the films to look visually stunning.

 

I even though "Mr and Mrs Smith" was a pretty film ,and it really didnt have to be.

I could probably think of a dozen others I've seen in the last year that were "pretty" and many of them were bad movies ! lol

 

For ex. I hated "Dark Water" but like some of the shots and looks they used in the movie.

[Greg Gross]

Hello Algis Kemezys,

 

Do you have a script yet? What's the story? I have a three day weekend off and

I can start writing the script. I presume that we have to go shopping for money.

Can we get SAG actors? I suggest we get M. David Mullen ASC for our DP and I

would like to write and direct. By directing I'll be able to get close to Mr. Mullen

and learn the process of filmmaking. Do you want film,digital cinema,HD? Let me

know and I'll get on the phone to Panavision and check on availability of the Gene-

sis camera, if you want digital cinematography. I'm opting for 35mm,Panavision. Of

course I'm sure we'll want to go with David's advice on camera. Thats of course pro-

viding he excepts the job. We have to make him a professional offer. On second th-

ought maybe we should ask Mark Douglas to direct and I'll be AD. I have a story

let me know what you think, ready:

 

Bush pilot,ex-military pilot. He sees something while flying that he's not supposed

to see. Lets say location is in Alaska. Anyway his daughter is abducted/kidnapped

in order that he keeps his mouth shut for a certain period of time. She's a diabetic

and time is running out! People who abducted her have no knowledge of her being

diabetic, no medication was taken with her. He decides to go after her and get her

back. A lot of flying action!

 

You know this will be a lot of hard work!! I presume that you are the producer.

What would you think about the film being produced,directed,photographed by forum

members. Sweet Jesus I wish we could afford Helinet! Here's my proposal: If you

want to go with it,let me know right away. I'll start writing script. I suggest:

 

1. Algis Kemezys- Producer

2. Mark Douglas- Director

3. Greg Gross- Writer/AD

4. M. David Mullen ASC- Director of Photography

 

You are not to far away from me in Canada, I'm in Pennsylvania. I could fly up

with finished script for a proposal/meeting. We could both fly out to California

and talk to Mark Douglas and David Mullen if that would be acceptable to them.

Algis,let me know soon and I'll get working on script.

 

FADE IN

A quiet early morning in the state of Alaska. Elk and Moose can be seen foraging

near the edge of a lake,its misty,a little foggy. The sun is rising,its dim yet and

sitting right on top of a snow capped mountain. Across the lake the edge of a run-

way can be seen with its approach lights flashing. A Beech Baron 58 can be heard,

its engines at take-off power. The aicraft appears,lifting off the runway through

the early morning mist,fog,disappears.

 

Controller(tower)

November-Zulu-Niner-0ne-Niner-Eight

Turn Right 270 Degrees,Maintain 3000 Feet

NICK

(left hand on yoke,right hand on throttles,headset on,

wearing brown leather flight jacket)

Roger Barrow.....November-Zulu-Niner-One-Niner-Eight

Turning 270 degrees....Maintaining 3000 Feet

 

Greg Gross

[Guest]

Some how Greg I get the impression you are not 100% serious.

 

R,

[Greg Gross]

I'm very serious,not kidding. I'm ready to start! Going to need a lot of money.

It will be a film by cinematographers,members of our forum here. I will work

for no pay. We will have to pay our DP and our director. Are there any takers?

Lets make a film! We'll all come together and write it,produce it,direct it and ph-

otograph it. Then last but not least,sell it. Who knows how to raise money for a

project like this? Anyone?

 

Greg Gross

[Algis Kemezys]

Holy Cow!!! GG,

 

What a fresh breath of optimistic enthusiasm. Producer is a bit too much of a title for the likes of me.

But don't let me slow your" Keffy" Greek for good vibe. Because of your powerful and clear take charge position your more sightful into the Producing game than I.

 

I like what Peter Greenaway does when he does it correctly. Sure he's had some overwhelming flops getting his technique right but when he does it's really quite fasinating. He also works through a series of numbers to complete an idea within the context of the film. Days of the week, countdown from !00, the completion of the pillow book ! Further at a Press conference I asked him about his look. To me they looked ocasionally like a photographers style and indeed in some cases it was just that. If he found a photographers style of photograph he would use that as a guide like into his own footage. So certainly a movie using so much talent would have to be pinned uniquely with a lot of visual style.

 

I hope we all can keep up the conversation and arrive at something Great ! Now that my currentl project "MiMeToLITHs" is almost in the DVD Canister....

[Greg Gross]

Algis,

 

I like your "MiME TO LITHS". I think my mind has been shifting back to Mr.

Coppola when he shot "Godfather" one. I loved the light in that film,the INT.

light. I've been able to raise money for my own productions on a tight budget.

One reason I'm able to accomplish this is because I include local people and

locations in my productions and the people love it. They love to see someone

they know of, a restaurant they have been to. At sometime I have to move out

of this phase and rise to bigger budgets. I'm very serious about us producing a film

a film conceived by cinematographers and produced by cinematographers. Algis,

can you see the trailer: A beechcraft baron 58 is lifting off from a dirt runway,Nick

is on his quest to get his daughter back. As the landing gear is retracting a tracer

round hits one of the main wheels and it catches on fire, the slipstream blows the

fire out. We see more tracer rounds coming at the aircraft. We see Nick in the cock-

pit,sweat pouring down his face, he's got that look on his face that Harrison Ford

gets, when trouble is in sight. Sweet Jesus, we don't even need dialogue here to tell

the story. Algis, this would be a film where we woud take the camera directly to

the action(right on top of it!). What better people to do it then cinematographers?

Voice: See "Point of No Return" this summer at a cinema near you. An action packed

story about a man on a search for his daughter. None stop action in the air and on

the ground. A film produced by cinematographers. Take the whole family to see

"Point of No Return" . Algis, do you think you can produce it? If not who can we get

to produce it? I'll keep working on the script until its completed. Before I sign off

I have to tell you how much I love Montreal and it's beautiful french speaking women. One time I was up for a film festival and a bunch of us went to an up-scale

lounge for some drinks. Now I have to tell you that I love Japanese women! I was

never lucky to find one,to spend my life with. Anyway a japanese girl was in the

lounge with her friends. I got really loaded and a guy from Arri said, Greg!,here's

a beautiful japanese girl for you. I was really loaded and made a fool out of myself.

She just kept laughing and I fell off of a bar stool! John Casssavetes(god bless him)

would have loved it. The camera would have kept rolling. Anyway my friend gave

her my cell number and she called me and took me out to dinner the next day. My

goodness, she spoke french to the waiter,I loved it. We spent three days together

but she would not give me a number or address to reach her. Leaving her was like

Scarlett and Bill leaving each other in "Lost In Translation". For weeks I prayed I'd

get a message, "you've got mail". I've always thought of her as my lost love in

Montreal. Montreal was never the same to me after that,but I still love it. When I

go up now I'm always a little sad. Algis,have a good weekend! I believe that re-

membering her is sort of putting me in an Ernest Hemingway sort of mood.

 

Greg Gross

[Greg Gross]

Algis,

Please excuse my sloppy composing. Out of time and I must run.

Would you like to see finished script when its completed?

 

Greg Gross

[Mungai Kiroga]

What happened to the movie idea? I ttink that a cinematographer's movie is a great idea and you should definiteely go for it. I have an suggestion though...

 

Since this movie is by cinematographers, why not concentrate on the visual aspects of it rather than the story? I don't mean to suggest that you totally ignore the story. I just think that you should aim to "wow" the audience with amazing shots (strictly no C.G.I).

 

An advantage of this idea is that you have less of a problem directing the actors. All you now have to do is think of the most exotic places to shoot from, Hawaiian beaches, the Kenyan Savannah, Even the Grand Canyon.

 

That would also make it easy for other cinematographers in other countries to participate since a resident wpuld know his country best.

 

Tell me what you think about that.

 

Tuonane (See ya)

[Landon D. Parks]

The Director and the DP are the two most important crew members on the set in my opinion. You get rid of one, and the other will crumble into dust. When you think about it, the story / acting and the visuals are whats the most important in a movie, with sound coming in 3rd.

 

:blink: I hope your "Movie" turns out ok though...

[Greg Gross]

I feel like Hitch shooting "North by Northwest"(god bless him).

A feature film of this stature requires a lot of money. I disagree about your take on

sound,in polls I've taken public says sound very important.

 

Greg Gross