film formats

January 11, 2004

hi

wish you all happy new year.

i have few doubts which looks silly to seniors, but to me they are very important.

1.what is universal ( world wide ) standard format for scope moovies?

2.what is differance between super 35mm, anamorphic , scope and superwide?

3.can we shoot same moovie with spherical and anamorphic lenses? if so what is the procedure during post production?

4. how can scope or 70mm movies can be viewed in TV in 35mm format? will they crop corners of the frame?

sorry for taking tour time.

venkat

Kevin Zanit · January 11, 2004

:::2.what is difference between super 35mm, anamorphic . . . ::::

These are all wide screen formats. Super 35 allows the camera to be fitted with spherical lenses, and through an optical step in the lab is converted to a stretched image. The advantage to this step is that there is a wider selection of lenses; focus is easier (as opposed to focusing in an arc for anamorphic lenses), the lenses are lighter, and they can be used wide-open with less image degradation then an anamorphic image.

The downside to Super 35 is that the extra optical step adds a fairly large amount of grain, and looks softer. DI's are allowing this step to look a little better, but to my eye not nearly as good as anamorphic.

Anamorphic is also a wide screen format. This format uses lenses that cause a stretched image to be recorded on film. This is done by adding either a rear or front anamorphiser to a spherical lens (or some are built around the idea that a anamorphiser will be added).

This method results in a beautiful wide screen image.

The downsides are listed above.

::: can we shoot same movie with spherical and anamorphic lenses? if so what is the procedure during post production :::

I suppose you could, but I can not think of any reason to. You would just need to go through the Super 35 step for the stuff shot with spherical lenses; also you would need a different camera, one that is converted to S35 and another that wasn?t.

The problem is that the footage would not really cut together (due to the grain differences).

::: how can scope or 70mm movies can be viewed in TV in 35mm format? Will they crop corners of the frame?

Sorry for taking tour time. :::

Through an optical step the 70mm (well actually 65, and 5 for sound) would be down converted to 35. This usually results in great looking results (comparing to 35 originated material).

For TV the image could either be letterboxed, Pan & Scanned (sinners!) or just cropped altogether (evil!).

To be honest, I cant get as detailed as other members will, so hopefully my answers will suffice until other, more qualified personal chime in.

Kevin Zanit

David Mullen ASC · January 11, 2004

>1.what is universal ( world wide ) standard format for scope moovies?

The projection standard is a 4-perf 35mm print with an image with a 2X horizontal squeeze, to be unsqueezed by the anamorphic projector lens. The projection gate is .825" x .690" (1.19565 : 1) so if doubled in width, it becomes on 2.3913 : 1.

There are no exact figures, but anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 of the scope movies released were actually shot with 2X anamorphic camera lenses; the rest in Super-35 and then cropped and stretched to 2.39 : 1. A few were shot in other formats, like 16:9 HDTV or 1.68 Super-16, and cropped & stretched to scope.

>2.what is differance between super 35mm, anamorphic , scope and superwide?

What's "superwide"?

"Anamorphic" involves using lenses that squeeze the image horizontally by half, to fit a wider frame onto the squarer 4-perf 35mm negative. However, the soundtrack area is not used for picture information, so you can make a contact print off of a movie shot with anamorphic lenses and project the print with a soundtrack on it. "Super-35" uses the soundtrack area to slightly get a wider picture (so the optical center is shifted over), but it also uses normal spherical lenses, so the negative has to be cropped in post to 2.39 : 1 and the stretched vertically to become a 2X squeezed-looking image. The end result will be a dupe negative that is in the anamorphic format so you can just make prints off of it.

>3.can we shoot same moovie with spherical and anamorphic lenses? if so what is the procedure during post production?

You can but it's rarely done because usually you have to have a final cut negative in a single format, so you'd have to copy the footage in one format into the other (losing some generations by going through an IP/IN step). It used to only happen with special effects movies, in that you could shoot the effects shot in another format because it was going to be duplicated anyway in post to add elements or alter it, and then you could put the final result out to the same format as the rest of the movie's non-efx footage. However, if you do a digital intermediate process where all the negative is scanned into a digital form and assembled digitally into the final version, then you can mix formats more easily and have everything stay the same generation.

It's also rarely done because few people want to rent two formats at once -- i.e. carry a full set of anamorphic and spherical lenses, plus have two sets of cameras set-up for Super-35 and anamorphic.

>4. how can scope or 70mm movies can be viewed in TV in 35mm format? will they crop corners of the frame?

You can crop and then pan & scan them, or you can letterbox them to preserve the theatrical frame.

Jayson Crothers · January 12, 2004

Here's a trivia question for you David; I recall reading about a film the Robert Richardson shot where he shot a portion of the film 1:85 and at a certain story point, switched to 2:40. I want to say "The Horse Whisperer", but I can't recall exactly............do you know, or am I totally making this up and need more sleep?

David Mullen ASC · January 12, 2004

That was "The Horse Whisperer" although the 1.85 portion was also shot in anamorphic and just matted to 1.85 on the scope print. It cuts to 2.35 during the drive to Montana. Pretty subtle actually compared to cutting from 1.33 to 2.35 like the opening of "Road Warrior". Even "JFK" begins in 1.33 and cuts to full 2.35 after the shot is fired that kills Kennedy.

"Brainstorm" also intercut 2.20 65mm for the "brainstorm" sequences with a less wide format for the rest (it may have been 1.66 35mm spherical.) The movie was released in 35mm scope prints and 70mm prints.

The most impressive transition, and the mother of them all, is when it cuts from 1.33 b&w with mono sound to 2.66 3-panel color Cinerama with 5-track sound in "This Is Cinerama" when the roller coaster footage begins.

I also like the first shot in "Oklahoma!", the first 65mm Todd-AO movie, where the camera tracks with a super wide lens through the corn stocks until they open up onto the landscape. Sort of like that opening of "Silverado" where the camera tracks through the open door with Scott Glen.

And of course, the inspiration for a lot of this is probably when Dorothy steps out of her house into the land of Oz... revealing the color.

Jayson Crothers · January 13, 2004

Whew.........thanks David. Regarding "The Horse Whisperer", I wonder if the heavy filtration use was an aesthetic choice, or a choice based on Redford's aging..........was there an AC or ICG article on the film?

David Mullen ASC · January 13, 2004

The use of diffusion was consistent with a lot of other films shot by Robert Richardson so I don't think you have to assume that Redford forced him to use it Richardson has sort of moved away from ProMists and over to nets and "Horse Whisperer" is the transition film where both are used.