Som Berthiot Pan Cinor Lens

[John Carty]

I was just curious to know what a Som Berthiot Pan Cinor C-Mount lens is like, are they a good lens for a Bolex 16mm camera? What problems do they have if any? will their be any restrictions in the focusing? Is there certain models better than others? Any info on these lens would grateful.

 

John

[Dom Jaeger]

Som Berthiot went down in history with the Pan Cinor as the first "modern" zoom lens for motion pictures in the early 50s, being fairly parfocal and relatively well corrected. They produced many different versions over about 20 years, ranging from 3x to 10x zooms, mainly for 8mm and 16mm formats. Their zooms used a simple optical compensating mechanism with 2 elements moving together on either side of a fixed central element, which was soon superceded by separately moving variator and compensator elements in a zoom mechanism developed by Angenieux (which is still used in zoom lenses today). As such, the image quality of Pan Cinors is a far cry from modern zooms. The coatings are dated, and contrast is generally low.

 

I've come across quite a few with fungus, so that's something to watch for.

 

Having said that, the compact little f/3.8 17-85 is decent, and about as small as a zoom of this range can get, handy for carrying around on a reflex Bolex. I think it even covers S16. Pan Cinors tend to be cheaper than similar range Angenieuxs or Vario-Switars.

[John Carty]

Thanks for the great info, I have seen the 17-85mm lens. Is it better to use the view finder that comes with that lens, or just use the Bolex view finder,what would be the advantages vs disadvantages using the view finder on the Pan or the Bolex

 

Thanks

[Dom Jaeger]

I was talking about the Compact 85 that doesn't have it's own viewfinder.

 

Lenses with their own viewfinders lose light to them, and have additional optics that only help to degrade the image. Useful for a non-reflex Bolex but not a reflex one.

 

If you only have a dogleg option on a reflex Bolex I'd use whichever viewfinder had the clearest image.

[John Carty]

Good to know. Thanks Dom

[Webster Colcord]

Just got a Som Berthiot Pan Cinor 17-85 with the dogleg finder. I'm trying trying to understand how the focus aid is supposed to work. Does anyone have a manual for this lens online?

[Dom Jaeger]

Is it this one?

 

https://the-eye.eu/public/Books/Manuals/som_berthiot_pan-cinor-5_for_16mm_cameras.pdf

[Webster Colcord]

Thanks Dom! That's the one!

[Simon Wyss]

If I may add something, not to spit into your soup but I deem it necessary, I have encountered delicate diaphragm mechanics with Berthiot lenses. One is the 10 mm f/1.9 wide angle, the other the D-mount Pan-Cinor 8~40. Crimped blades, no solid pivots. In case you can peek into a lens, look for the iris cage. Everything else mechanical can be cured but not that.

 

 

Wollensak had such weakish leaves, too.

http://forum.mflenses.com/c-mount-wollensak-raptar-6-inch-f-4-5-cine-telephoto-lens-t75457.html

[Webster Colcord]

I came across some really nice footage shot with an Som Berthiot Pan-Cinor 17-85 f2 lens on a Panasonic GH5. Maybe the shooter is a member here?

 

There's some shots that I believe have digitally added dust elements, I could do without those, but it's really cool to see shots that highlight the unique effects of this lens.

 

https://youtu.be/Z8LfsRVyOzY

[Nick Brown]

I have come into possession of a Pan Cinor 17-85 f2 (non-dogleg version; there is no opening for any kind of a viewfinder). It seems to be in great condition and is (thankfully) free of any visible fungus. However, I would like to open it up and clean some haze off of the elements, as well as re-lubricate the helicoid, aperture, and zoom mechanism (if I can figure it out). I have a little experience with manual lens disassembly and maintenance, but thought I would ask here if anyone had any pointers before I start unscrewing things (I haven't been able to find any documentation online). Has anyone had any experience with this?