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Samuel Berger

What Camera is this? (Segata Sanshiro Commercial Shoot)

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Tyler,

 

Just play the darn Sega Saturn already and stop getting thrown around the room by Segata Sanshiro.

 

Good luck.

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And the weirdest thing is, that he may end up becoming the thing that he has been pretending to be.

I've been at it for 25 years Gregg. I guess all those years are make believe? Maybe you should tell all the people who call me to shoot for them, I'm just "pretending" to be a cinematographer.

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Part of the problem with these disputes is that cinematography is both art and science. Subjective qualities can come into arty opinions that can offend the technical sensibilities of experts - and with good reason. We are all human, and fallible. Also emotion comes into play (pride etc). On the whole I would try to tone it down a bit, as a group, and maybe let one person make a sound and thorough correction if it's felt by the group that it's needed. Most learners and 'newbies' I think can quickly discern which teacher or source of information they are going to follow on a particular topic. I would above all try and avoid personal attacks against other members but that's easy to write, not always easy to do. Just bear in mind that these disputes will not go away. They are going to keep happening again and again. So develop an efficient strategy, not an en masse exasperation event because that, too, doesn't come across all that well. Learners know what's going on. If they don't, they probably shouldn't be getting into cinematography because, wow, what a complex art and science it is. But I think you are all great experts. I'm not really criticizing any of you. You all do an excellent job, and so does Tyler even though sometimes it appears he does put his foot in it a bit. Perhaps too quick to type some things. I do it too sometimes.

Edited by Jon O'Brien
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Jon agreed ..but opinions are for discussions that warrant one.. technical stuff stated as fact.. e.g. crop factor .. the way a certain camera functions e.g. F55/5 constant ISO in EI mode.. gamma curves.. sensors .. there is no opinion .. the information is either correct or not.. incorrect info should be flagged who ever posts it..

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For future reference, when someone posts a video and is discussing analysis, usually I'm talking specifically about that video in my post unless otherwise noted. Part of the "confusion" in this thread is the fact that people just "assumed" I was talking about all media ever made, but there were some dead giveaways that triggered my comments and here they are in order as typed with my thought process after each one.

 

"For sure 35... I can tell instantly" (this is called an "opinion" and based on personal experience)

"Pretty flat image without the "pop" and glossiness of digital." (flat referring to color not depth of field)

 

"It's just a not so good transfer and color grade." (this is in reference to the age of the piece, which puts it at a time period where 35mm was still heavily used for commercials)

 

"Ohh, yea you can tell its 35mm from the field of view since it's square open gate." (this was an addendum to what was said previously)

 

If you look carefully, there are FOUR statements and several points about determining this particular video's format were mentioned. I explained above why I said those things so you can understand how my mind works. I will make statements in one post and then add an addendum to the statement later down. That addendum doesn't rescind the first comment unless specified. This is why internet forums have a list of comments one on top of the other. This layout was developed so people can quickly see groups of comments faster and so people like me who are busy, can add comments faster, without having to edit their posts. I also made these posts in a hurry because I was busy prepping for a shoot this past weekend. I was on my phone at the time and I didn't want to "edit" my earlier post to put all the data together.

 

When I then had the time to put all my thoughts together, this is what my "down time" clarification looked like:

 

- Field of View (is edge/barrel distortion present on the wider shots)
- Depth of field (how shallow is it on the wider shots)
- Size of grain (dirt particulates)
- Sharpness/crispness of shot
- Un-cropped aspect ratio

 

The problem is that some members didn't take everything I said into context, they focused on ONE thing "field of view" and ripped it apart, forgetting about all the other clues I mentioned.

 

Notice how calm and collected I am, not calling members out, not telling them they suck and don't know what they're doing. It's called being professional and it's something many people on here are just unable to understand.

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This is the particular commercial that was being filmed in the OP.

 

 

 

What focal length do you think was used? It seemed pretty consistent.

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So it's 4 shots. There are two lenses I think.

 

I'd say 18mm ish for the wide shots and 32mm ish for the close up? Maybe? Just a guess. I'm not good at determining exact focal lengths.

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The problem is that some members didn't take everything I said into context, they focused on ONE thing "field of view" and ripped it apart, forgetting about all the other clues I mentioned.

 

Notice how calm and collected I am, not calling members out, not telling them they suck and don't know what they're doing. It's called being professional and it's something many people on here are just unable to understand.

The complaint was that your statement was misleading. You made an assertion about 16mm vs 35mm which appeared to hinge on FoV, and other factors which you declined to list. Subsequent posts may have clarified what you were talking about, but they don't change the fact that your initial statement was misleading, which is exactly what everyone was trying to tell you.

 

I don't recall anyone telling you that you suck and don't know what you're doing.

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You made an assertion about 16mm vs 35mm which appeared to hinge on FoV

Again, "appeared" and that's how some people interpreted it. Above, I clarified what I meant and if you look at it from MY perspective, the writer... then you may find understanding where there wasn't any before.

 

... and other factors which you declined to list.

The factors were there, you just didn't take into account all of the posts I made, "assuming" a single post negated everything else I had already stated.

 

Why should I have to re-write everything I already said? I figured people would put the pieces together, and I was unfortunately wrong.

 

I declined to list because you ALWAYS call me out on poop and at that moment, I didn't have the time to get involved in it.

 

Subsequent posts may have clarified what you were talking about, but they don't change the fact that your initial statement was misleading, which is exactly what everyone was trying to tell you.

You just "assume" I was purposely trying to be misleading and I was not. That's your bad, not mine sir. I made myself very clear when I had the time to do so.

 

I don't recall anyone telling you that you suck and don't know what you're doing.

 

And the weirdest thing is, that he may end up becoming the thing that he has been pretending to be. Which case, hats off to him. But what a lot of damage and nonsense along the way. The intrinsic quality of all this nonsense will linger. It will stick for good......

 

"pretending" to be a cinematographer and "what a lot of damage" I've done?

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as per the Sony camera debacle ..

Just an FYI... just did another Sony shoot. I refused to be the DP, so I directed the 2nd unit instead. We hired a great DP, who did a fine job. We had a chuckle about the impossible menus and workflow that everyone wants to pull their hair out. I had no say on the rental package, which is why I declined to partake.

 

He made me a special LUT and ya know what, the stuff came out OK. It wasn't his lighting, it was really his understanding of the very/highly specialized post workflow and my ability to make it look good enough. Still not completely happy, but I'm happy I learned something.

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Again, "appeared" and that's how some people interpreted it. Above, I clarified what I meant and if you look at it from MY perspective, the writer... then you may find understanding where there wasn't any before.

 

The factors were there, you just didn't take into account all of the posts I made, "assuming" a single post negated everything else I had already stated.

 

Why should I have to re-write everything I already said? I figured people would put the pieces together, and I was unfortunately wrong.

 

I declined to list because you ALWAYS call me out on poop and at that moment, I didn't have the time to get involved in it.

 

You just "assume" I was purposely trying to be misleading and I was not. That's your bad, not mine sir. I made myself very clear when I had the time to do so.

 

 

 

Of course people interpreted your statements separately, you didn't explain yourself until three days later. No one ever accused you of being deliberately misleading, stop trying to rewrite history. All this thread has been about is how your statement was poorly worded and unsubstantiated, which led to confusion. That you later explained it does not change that fact. Attempting to shift the blame to others for their lack of comprehension will not work. Again, if you don't like being called out, be clear in what you're saying.

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Just an FYI... just did another Sony shoot. I refused to be the DP, so I directed the 2nd unit instead. We hired a great DP, who did a fine job. We had a chuckle about the impossible menus and workflow that everyone wants to pull their hair out. I had no say on the rental package, which is why I declined to partake.

 

He made me a special LUT and ya know what, the stuff came out OK. It wasn't his lighting, it was really his understanding of the very/highly specialized post workflow and my ability to make it look good enough. Still not completely happy, but I'm happy I learned something.

 

 

Well Im glad you eventually got a decent picture from a Sony camera.. even with not the best lighting .. but luckily you were able to make it look good.. plus the DP knowing the camera/workflow ..there is some use for a DP after all :)

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... this thread is not a source of information for our future children to learn from.

 

 

It absolutely is.

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It absolutely is.

My daughter is almost 9, has been making stop motion since she was 5, and occasionally asks me to look up stuff for her on filmmaking...on this forum.

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On the other end of the spectrum, I'm 66 and got involved in indie filmmaking just a few years ago. I'm pushing forward in 16mm (in part, because I grew up in my dad's 35mm darkroom and I ain't afraid of no film) and I'm in hear to learn. Part of that learning is to listen to differences of opinion to help me formulate my own but it's great to get some assistance in sorting out differences of opinion from differences in fact.

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On the other end of the spectrum, I'm 66 and got involved in indie filmmaking just a few years ago. I'm pushing forward in 16mm (in part, because I grew up in my dad's 35mm darkroom and I ain't afraid of no film) and I'm in hear to learn. Part of that learning is to listen to differences of opinion to help me formulate my own but it's great to get some assistance in sorting out differences of opinion from differences in fact.

Which is kind of my point.

 

Everyone's brain works different, we all have our own interpretation.

 

I posted my interpretation and was basically pushed aside, which is a real shame.

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Which is kind of my point.

 

Everyone's brain works different, we all have our own interpretation.

 

I posted my interpretation and was basically pushed aside, which is a real shame.

 

Well, I don't always agree with you, but for some reason every time you post personal opinions, a bunch of people turn into this:

 

DustinMattson10-305x457.jpg

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Samuel, that's a bit obscure. Who is that chap, what does he represent....(in 12 words or less plse)

That's the Disapproving Hipster Barista Who Thinks You're Obviously Wrong.

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