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Max Field

Could Digital Kill Film?

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The big deal is its like someone who drives golf buggies for a living saying Lewis Hamilton is not a very good driver.. when you have shot a few big feature films and been Oscar nominated a couple of times .. then it might be taken a bit more seriously .. one can criticize a film as a whole for sure.. but to pick out the craft of the DoP specifically, you yourself would have to have some knowledge of the art.. to pass the judgment .. or be taken seriously.. your dislike is based solely on the camera used..or so it seems .. you also dont seem to know about the process,s involved .. e.g. grading as pointed out by another poster..its digital too !..

Im sorry to be on your case.. and even I was young and stupid many years ago.. :).. your just not doing yourself any favors to say that probably the best living DP in the world..18 ? Oscar noms .. latest work is not very good..(esp when it patently is). seemingly based on him using an Alexa..from the lofty position of a student.. its never going to hold water..

 

Tell that to Youtube video essay reviewers and they throw a fit lol.

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Im sorry to be on your case.. and even I was young and stupid many years ago.. :).. your just not doing yourself any favors to say that probably the best living DP in the world..18 ? Oscar noms .. latest work is not very good..(esp when it patently is). seemingly based on him using an Alexa..from the lofty position of a student.. its never going to hold water..

 

People can go crazy at any point in their lives.

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That is the thing I find most rediculous about these kinds of statements.

This whole thread is so stupid, I can't help but keep watching. :lol: and laughing!!! (Whoops, my son just told me I'm not supposed to say "stupid". He's right. Sorry about that.)

 

its like someone who drives golf buggies for a living saying Lewis Hamilton is not a very good driver..

 

Yessir.

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This whole thread is so stupid, I can't help but keep watching. :lol: and laughing!!! (Whoops, my son just told me I'm not supposed to say "stupid". He's right. Sorry about that.)

 

Yessir.

 

 

This old Chestnut gets thrown onto the fire every now and again on all the camera forums .. its always good for a laugh .. if they had the inter web in the middle ages it would about if the world was flat or not.. the usual dogmatic dilettantes .. old and young would be expounding their ideas.. and those that actually knew the answer would be getting burn alive literally rather than being flamed on the net..I just couldn't let the Deakin's thing go though without comment .. Blade Runner 2049.. doesn't look good..!! .. from a student .. no that cant stand..

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It looks like an iPhone video, all that's missing is the vertical aspect ratio.

Let's not resort to nerd reductionism.

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It looks like an iPhone video, all that's missing is the vertical aspect ratio.

 

 

you must have a better iPhone than me.. .. go forth and conquer .. do you have a link to last feature by way of comparison .. :)

 

Poor old Roger.. his decline has been so rapid.. if only he could get some advise from this forum instead of just pontificating away on his own..

Edited by Robin R Probyn

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you must have a better iPhone than me.. .. go forth and conquer .. do you have a link to last feature by way of comparison .. :)

 

I don't need to compare his latest to my latest, it is sufficient to compare his latest to his earlier.

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I don't need to compare his latest to my latest, it is sufficient to compare his latest to his earlier.

 

even so it would be good to see how it should be done.. and I believe Roger could benefit too..as you point out .he is somewhat floundering at the moment .. a true master must not be selfish after all.. would it be your earlier work or later..?

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even so it would be good to see how it should be done.. and I believe Roger could benefit too..as you point out .he is somewhat floundering at the moment .. a true master must not be selfish after all.. would it be your earlier work or later..?

 

I don't think he can re-learn. When Glen Campbell's dementia started setting in, he'd forget lyrics, chords...eventually he forgot everything, even his loved ones. Deakins is shooting videos after years of mastering film. I'm telling you, it could well be dementia, and if it is, it's very sad.

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It looks like an iPhone video, all that's missing is the vertical aspect ratio.

Seriously... Well you have officially lost all credibility in my book. All the talent involved throughout the production producing something that you could not come close to achieving and it looks like an iPhone video?

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I think its a bit phone in cheek David.. :).. or some slight dementia creeping in .. it is impossible that Roger is purposely shooting badly in order to eventually win an Oscar.. ?

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I don't think he can re-learn. When Glen Campbell's dementia started setting in, he'd forget lyrics, chords...eventually he forgot everything, even his loved ones. Deakins is shooting videos after years of mastering film. I'm telling you, it could well be dementia, and if it is, it's very sad.

So switching to preferring digital to film equals dementia?

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Seriously... Well you have officially lost all credibility in my book. All the talent involved throughout the production producing something that you could not come close to achieving and it looks like an iPhone video?

 

If you watch it on an iPhone, yes.

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If you watch it on an iPhone, yes.

 

 

Sam.. this is why it looked like an iPhone .. it was actually an iPhone.. dementia sir..? take care..

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So switching to preferring digital to film equals dementia?

 

This is a pyramidal argument, David. Nobody said he "prefers" digital, rather, he accepted the bizarre invitation to endure backwhipping by slavemasters who want him to erect a film pixel by pixel rather than painting it with light upon emulsion. The insanity is in the decision to navigate blindfolded onto the rocks at night, ignoring the lighthouse of film, rowing shackled to the drumming of dubstep.

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Nay sir.. he cast himself upon the hot pixel coals of Hades .. and doth rejoice in the under world.. casting off the chains of sprocket and emulsion .. to a newer promised land.. he has climbed the mountain ... where you and your disciplines .. are but still in the barren foothills of labs and one light.. open thine eyes and embrace the wave form..

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Cinematography is bright still, though the brightest fell,

Though all things cinema would wear the look of film,

Yet grace must still look so

 

- An adaptation from Shakespeare's Macbeth

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A slow and gentle halt in the glow of Shakespeare. A lingering shot of the sun. Fade out. A slight popping sound from the optical soundtrack.

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This is going to a some kind of new meta level, not sure where it'll lead but interesting indeed.

 

I have couple of pounds of industrial gelatine flakes here if you want some over your popcorns. maybe even coating a camera with it?

could make it more analogue, at least it would have the correct smell then. goretex suit coated with wool to make it fit better in VR

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This discussion is getting quite silly.

To Robin R Probyn, let me take some heat of Fatih's back here.

 

Sure bashing for bashing sake is unnecessary, but the notion that you can't have your own point of view as filmmaker, is ridicules. That's the whole point of film making (that and making money of course, probably in reverse order.)

 

Let say I want to shot a western, now since this is a film, not a book, or a stage-play -- it's a film, it needs to have a look, a tone, a vision if you so will. So in your mind you start with two polar opposite images The Searchers and The Revenant, and you say what do I prefer (of course, in the real world the man with money pulls the strings, but say you agree on the vision in this case.)

 

I my case it's The Searchers, but it's not quite right, I never liked the cutting between actual locations and stage exteriors, and do I really need the VistaVision frame? So your mind wanders on and says -- Pale Rider. Yeah that seems about right and practical, so let us start from there.

 

Now, that doesn't mean that, The Searchers or The Revenant's, look and approach due to artistic intent or technical limitations of the time, are any better or worse than Pale Rider. But, and this is the big but again, they are different.

 

And if you are, or want to be a filmmaker. You really should have an opinion/preference, otherwise what's the point?

Edited by Alex Lindblom
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And if you are, or want to be a filmmaker. You really should have an opinion/preference, otherwise what's the point?

 

Filmmaker's opinions and preferences should be based on what suits the particular film best. A choice based on the needs of the movie and story rather than only one's personal preferences.

There is no "right" or "wrong" shooting format for a movie IN GENERAL, one needs to evaluate and decide the formats based on the particular movie in question.

 

there is lots of "movie nerds" around who watch some stuff others have made and some Deakins and Fincher and Nolan interviews and mash up a very strict opinion about how all the people in the world should make movies, making it some kind of personal crusade for or against a format or shooting style which they (or their idols) do or don't like.

 

To me it's kinda... extremely unprofessional attitude and kind of movie elitism and at times also lack of personal reasoning and experience (thus absorbing the opinions of the idols rather than creating one's own opinions)

 

Kind of "you are stupid person because you are shooting on film" or "you are stupid person because shooting on video" type of high school attitude. persons throwing curse words like "CELLULOID LOVER!" or "PIXEL PEEPER!" on each other :blink:

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Filmmaker's opinions and preferences should be based on what suits the particular film best. A choice based on the needs of the movie and story rather than only one's personal preferences.

There is no "right" or "wrong" shooting format for a movie IN GENERAL, one needs to evaluate and decide the formats based on the particular movie in question.

 

there is lots of "movie nerds" around who watch some stuff others have made and some Deakins and Fincher and Nolan interviews and mash up a very strict opinion about how all the people in the world should make movies, making it some kind of personal crusade for or against a format or shooting style which they (or their idols) do or don't like.

 

To me it's kinda... extremely unprofessional attitude and kind of movie elitism and at times also lack of personal reasoning and experience (thus absorbing the opinions of the idols rather than creating one's own opinions)

 

Kind of "you are stupid person because you are shooting on film" or "you are stupid person because shooting on video" type of high school attitude. persons throwing curse words like "CELLULOID LOVER!" or "PIXEL PEEPER!" on each other :blink:

Agreed.

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I don't particularly like the Nolan movies that much btw, that is because of the scripts and twists he uses. the movies look great in general and the look suits the story and world of the movie quite well.

 

the Interstellar was especially bad, so many plot holes and stupid twists (and the annoying and illogical child characters!) and the freaking Matt Damon character who has gotten himself in trouble (AGAIN) and thus needs to be saved so that lots of better characters can be killed for it Private Ryan style. The whole "we have this secret facility which we want you to find and come to so that you can save the world but we do everything possible so that you won't find out its existence or location"

Of course there was also this sound design + music which made one's ears bleed (the wormhole scene was an absolute nightmare, so difficult to watch because the screeching and music hurts one's brains) but that's another matter though I'm sure it was also one of Cris's great ideas <_<

Edited by aapo lettinen

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