Some guy sold his Ursa Mini Pro to buy an FS7

[Tyler Purcell]

A month and a half later, here I am selling my Ursa Mini 4K to buy a Canon C300 Mark II. Heh...

Why? I mean you can get the 4.6k imager standard URSA mini for pretty cheap.

[Samuel Berger]

Why? I mean you can get the 4.6k imager standard URSA mini for pretty cheap.

 

Sorry, what? Do you mean just the sensor?

[Tyler Purcell]

Sorry, what? Do you mean just the sensor?

No like sell your body and get a 4.6k body. I just assume the reason your selling is due to the 4k imager, which everyone knows isn't good.

[Samuel Berger]

No like sell your body

 

At my age I don't think I can make a career out of it. ;-) But I hear science is buying...

 

 

I just assume the reason your selling is due to the 4k imager, which everyone knows isn't good.

 

Oh, no, it's because of the stupid PL mount. I need EF, I'm not rich.

[Tyler Purcell]

Oh, no, it's because of the stupid PL mount. I need EF, I'm not rich.

IDK, you're rich enough to own film cameras! LOL :D

[David Hessel]

The Ursa mini has a EF mount option.

[Samuel Berger]

The Ursa mini has a EF mount option.

 

Only the Pro. I have a Mini 4K with PL mount.

[David Hessel]

The 4.6k non pro version comes in either PL or EF mount as does the 4K, the pro version has an interchangeable mount that can be PL, EF or B4 if I recall correctly.

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1137314-REG/blackmagic_design_cinecamursam40k_ef_ursa_4k_digital_cinema.html

 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1137310-REG/blackmagic_design_cinecamursam46k_ef_ursa_mini_4_6k_digital.html

Edited December 31, 2017 by David Hessel

[Samuel Berger]

I should have been clearer, my apologies. I meant that once the mount is chosen you can't swap it, which is why I'm stuck with PL.

[David Hessel]

True but you just stated you are selling the 4K to get a C300 MKII because it has an EF mount I am just pointing out that there are EF options for the non-pro Ursa's as well, if the C300 is your preference then by all means go for it.

[Brian Drysdale]

Interesting caparison of cameras, although a FS5 rather than FS7.

 

https://www.provideocoalition.com/2018-camera-shootout

[Tyler Purcell]

Interesting caparison of cameras, although a FS5 rather than FS7.

 

https://www.provideocoalition.com/2018-camera-shootout

Thanks for sharing! Yea as I suspected, the URSA Mini Pro does look the best in my opinion and is clearly the easiest to grade. It also has the best controls/menu. Bigger/heavier, but eh... it uses real batteries, not toy proprietary batteries.

 

It's unfortunate he never talked about the recording medium! EEEK!

[Adrian Sierkowski]

Personally the "comparison" all looked pretty awful, and the situations the camera was shown in was rather, eh to the point where I don't think the performance of the camera can really be reliably gauged and to a market, honestly, where any of those cameras would perform basically exactly the same.

[Brian Drysdale]

I suspect you can't tell much looking at YouTube videos, although the job that camera is intended for is important and the URSA Mini Pro probably isn't an ideal documentary camera, which is the market the other cameras are aimed for..

[Adrian Sierkowski]

I dunno. The Pro does address a lot of the concerns with Docu Shooting in a nice beefy codec and personally the easy shoulder to tripod and nice shoulder balance I think is super useful for docu shoots.

[Brian Drysdale]

It would depend on the type of work you do. If you were doing, single person crew, low light filming or productions that tend not to do much colour grading in post it may be less suitable.

[Tyler Purcell]

It would depend on the type of work you do. If you were doing, single person crew, low light filming or productions that tend not to do much colour grading in post it may be less suitable.

The blackmagic cameras are the easiest to grade in post, so they're ideal for simple post workflow. I have yet to work with a better post friendly system then Blackmagic, nothing else even comes close. Pro Res is the industry standard for iFrame codec's and there are 4 flavors build-in to the camera + 2 flavors of raw (compressed and uncompressed).

 

If you need more than 1600 ISO you need more light. I've shot 800 ISO exterior at night and it's been fine. I still to this day don't understand why anyone would need more than 1600 ISO for anything.

 

This video doesn't mention the beautiful shoulder kit Blackmagic developed for the URSA Mini, which allows for shoulder work very easily. The other cameras have nothing like that, nor do they have built-in rails like the URSA mini as well. So there are A LOT of benefits to that stuff which he never talked about in the video. It almost seemed as if the monitor not turning completely around was the biggest failure for the reviewer.

[Robin R Probyn]

Unless your doing your own productions the biggest problem is going to be convincing production managers to use it in the first place.. how ever good it is.. to them ..peace of mind/workflow/post..a camera means means Sony Arri Canon ..

[Landon D. Parks]

The best of the best in terms of digital, right now, is still Arri. There is a reason its the most used camera system at this point for real productions. Blackmagic, even the URSA Mini Pro, is still a low-cost camera, which means many corners are being cut. The image is good from the URSA, but the build quality of Blackmagic in general leaves a lot to be desired, and they are still not as reliable as Arri. As Robin said, if you're shooting your own stuff, a Blackmagic is fine --- I would not use one on a set where I could afford a real camera rental.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Landon D. Parks

[Brian Drysdale]

The blackmagic cameras are the easiest to grade in post, so they're ideal for simple post workflow. I have yet to work with a better post friendly system then Blackmagic, nothing else even comes close. Pro Res is the industry standard for iFrame codec's and there are 4 flavors build-in to the camera + 2 flavors of raw (compressed and uncompressed).

 

If you need more than 1600 ISO you need more light. I've shot 800 ISO exterior at night and it's been fine. I still to this day don't understand why anyone would need more than 1600 ISO for anything.

 

This video doesn't mention the beautiful shoulder kit Blackmagic developed for the URSA Mini, which allows for shoulder work very easily. The other cameras have nothing like that, nor do they have built-in rails like the URSA mini as well. So there are A LOT of benefits to that stuff which he never talked about in the video. It almost seemed as if the monitor not turning completely around was the biggest failure for the reviewer.

 

Personally, for most doc work I can live with 1600 ISO, however, I've also had to shoot at a higher ISO and still hit the buffers with sensitivity..

 

If filming fly on the wall doc with say street gangs, you may need a higher ISO when shooting at night. Modern cameras do allow you to shoot in places that would be impossible before and you may not be able to light them..

 

The video does mention shooting from the shoulder with the URSA, which is my preferred method. However, the video has the declared limit of not including extras other than what comes with the camera.

 

Not all productions get graded in post, so if you're freelance working for other people you need to cover this and other bases,

[Tyler Purcell]

The best of the best in terms of digital, right now, is still Arri.

Arri doesn't even make a 4k cinema camera. So I wouldn't consider them "the best" anymore. Yes their imager is great, but that's about the only thing worth noting these days. I personally prefer working with the Red's because they're smaller and when you shoot at 6k and down scale to 4k, you get a full 16 bit 444 image out of it, which is stellar. You have to upscale the Alexa footage to get 4k out of it, which is to say the least, not a great way to go. Plus, to get 16 bit out of an Alexa, you need to shoot Arriraw which is HUGE and painful in post, where Red Code gives you 16 bit native and is pretty lightweight in comparison.

 

Blackmagic, even the URSA Mini Pro, is still a low-cost camera, which means many corners are being cut.

Wait a second... you don't think there are corners being cut on Canon, Sony, Panasonic cameras of similar price? The Japanese cut even MORE corners then the Blackmagic does, FAR MORE.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that shoots 12 bit RAW internally. The C200 is 10 bit BTW. I'll throw 12 and 10 bit iFrame codec into this question, because not even the FS7 does higher then 10 bit 4:2:2 without spending a lot more money on RAW capture. Basically nothing even remotely close to the URSA price tag captures anything decent internally.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that has interchangeable lens mounts, not adaptors, but entire mount replacements for Canon, Nikon, PL and B4, but still retains a filter wheel.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that has 12 channel AES audio input, so you can run your mixers audio directly into the camera to capture full bandwidth audio. I'll also point out, the URSA Mini Pro will capture off it's internal stereo mic's for scratch AND it's multichannel input at the same time. To me, this is a huge feature no other manufacturer has even bothered putting into their cameras.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that has 12g SDI (4k 60fps) I/O ports. This is one of the most critical features for live shooting, so you can give "return" video to the camera at the same resolution the camera is shooting at.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that uses standard V-mount (or any mount for that matter) batteries, no stupid odd-ball "brand specific" battery system that costs money, but also is more likely to fail. Also, because it uses standard batteries, you can buy a v mount D-tap adaptor that will give you as many power taps as you could ever want/need without using the camera itself to power anything.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that can take 12 - 30v with standard 4 pin XLR power? This is so critical because you never know where you're going to be and having the ability to use pretty much anything, with industry standard power connections, is so nice.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that has a built in rail system for Matteboxes and follow focuses (it's part of the standard accessory kit). Heck, name one that has a built-in mounting holes on top. Nearly all of the Japanese cameras have one or two mounts on top, which is not enough. Plus the URSA Mini Pro's mount is very heavy duty, not just part of the plastic housing. I'll also mention the shoulder mounting abilities which the Japanese don't do without 3rd party upgrades.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that uses STANDARD SD cards (2) OR STANDARD CFast cards (2). This is a huge one as most manufacturers pigeonhole you into buying THEIR storage medium and restrict you to one or the other. Blackmagic has zero restrictions, you chose the medium you wish to use and use it. This is a HUGE advantage in my opinion because it keeps cost down when you don't need to record high bandwidth video.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that has a decent viewfinder! The URSA Mini Pro has a 2k OLED viewfinder (it's part of the standard accessory kit) On the Japanese cameras they either use a display as a viewfinder, which sucks OR they have this little tiny hole in the back which is completely worthless. I'll also point out, the URSA Mini Pro uses standard BNC SDI ports for it's viewfinder unlike the competition, who force you to buy their specialized viewfinders due to having proprietary ports.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that uses convection cooling, without the necessity of having fans. This is a HUGE problem with the Japanese cinema cameras, they pack them so tight inside, the fans are critical for cooling. The EVA1, Canon C series, FS5/FS7, all of these cameras, the fans can get pretty annoying after long recordings, especially in hot situations. The URSA Mini Pro uses convection cooling, so it naturally draws air from the bottom of the body, through the heat sync which is the entire main housing and out the top. Yes it does have a fan on the bottom, but it barely moves and because they use active refrigerant inside the cooling tubes, no matter what the camera will make zero noise, even in the most extreme conditions.

 

Please, name a sub $10k Japanese camera that utilizes a bluetooth camera assistant tool. The URSA mini pro can be run entirely from any iOS device, with full menu controls AND the ability to jam sync as well. This function is super awesome to have when on set because you can literally adjust the camera settings in the video village remotely. The software also works as a digital slate, with the ability to label clips as you're recording. So when you get into post production, everything has the proper scene/shot names on them already. (The EVA1 does some of this, but not standard, the consumer must buy a special wifi device that sticks in the back. It also doesn't act as a slate or clip labeling function, just menus)

 

I could go on all day about the "technology" the Japanese skimped out on, but these are some pretty kickass features Blackmagic felt were more important to have than 15,000 ISO (which I think is stupid) and 1000FPS (which I also think is stupid). When I look at the URSA Mini Pro, I look at a cinema camera, not a swiss army knife. I don't want it to do anything else but create great images at 23.98/24fps with the occasional over-crank to 48fps maybe. When you build a camera that does everything, you restrict its ability to do ONE THING really great and that's my biggest beef with the sub 10k competition. Also remember, the URSA Mini Pro completely decked out brand new with all the accessories is $8500 USD. In fact, I've seen them sell as complete kits on ebay for $7999 out the door including shipping. That makes it VERY competitive on price vs function in the sub $10k category.

 

I'll just say for the record the video Brian posted is EXACTLY how I feel about the other cameras. Whenever I work with blackmagic, they always just flat out work for me in post, beautiful images every time and I always struggle with the other brands. For me, that means I can spend less time in post tweaking and more time editing, which means in the long run my product looks more cinematic without needing a higher end camera.

 

To me, they're not cutting corners... they're just focused on not fighting against the Japanese in terms of "features". They're focused on image quality at base ISO at standard (23.98/24/25/30) frame rates. Which the Japanese manufacturers have totally forgotten.

 

The image is good from the URSA, but the build quality of Blackmagic in general leaves a lot to be desired, and they are still not as reliable as Arri.

Well, you can't compare a $65,000 camera with a $5,999 camera now can you? Personally, I haven't seen any build quality issues with the Blackmagic cameras (or products) I own. I know the first batch of URSA Mini's had some issues, but the Pro's have been pretty good thus far. They've been more on top of software updates then any other camera system that I've seen from them, which is nice.

 

Personally, I don't think there is much of a choice in the sub $10k market. I think the Japanese spend to much time fighting against each other feature wise, they have lost track of what's important. The only Japanese camera I like the look of are the Canon's, but everything else about them is horrible. So that's why the URSA Mini Pro appears to be the only real option. It's got the critical features in a package that's reasonably priced, with a more then perfect post workflow. So outside of those people who need greater than 1600 ISO, or better than 60fps 4k slow-mo, the Ursa Mini Pro should fit the bill for everyone else.

[Dom Jaeger]

Arri doesn't even make a 4k cinema camera. So I wouldn't consider them "the best" anymore.

 

Arri will be devastated to hear that, but can at least take heart that the vast majority of recent awards nominations still chose to shoot on Arri cameras, despite their awful resolution. It's baffling how these so-called professional cinematographers, producers and directors keep wanting to use a camera that isn't even 4K!

[Tyler Purcell]

 

Arri will be devastated to hear that, but can at least take heart that the vast majority of recent awards nominations still chose to shoot on Arri cameras, despite their awful resolution. It's baffling how these so-called professional cinematographers, producers and directors keep wanting to use a camera that isn't even 4K!

 

Umm, Dom they have contracts to use certain equipment.

[Brian Drysdale]

More likely with Netflicks etc, which require 4K acquisition, so rule out the Arri..

[Stuart Brereton]

 

Umm, Dom they have contracts to use certain equipment.

 

I'd like to see some evidence for this.

 

All DPs I know have freedom to use any camera system they like. Neither they, nor the production is under contract to any manufacturer. DPs choose the camera system based on testing and personal preference, Line producers choose the vendor based on price.