What's happening to LA?

[Stuart Brereton]

 

Do you have to hand more than 14K to receive benefits from the union? O_O

 

 

 

Regarding salaries in USA and EU.. I don't think that they are the same.

 

$14k is the joining fee for DPs. To get benefits like healthcare, you have to work 600 hours on union jobs in 6 months to qualify, and then 400 hours every 6 months to keep your coverage.

 

Crew rates very wildly here. Rates on non-union movies are completely negotiable. So-called 'New Media' and Tier 0 and Tier 1 movies are also negotiable. A DPs rate is always negotiable in movies. Union TV rates are more controlled.

 

There are some non union shows which pay very well, particularly Reality shows. I shot a show recently where we had a Reality crew with us for a day. The camera ops were making double what I was making.

[Gregory Irwin]

$14k is the joining fee for DPs. To get benefits like healthcare, you have to work 600 hours on union jobs in 6 months to qualify, and then 400 hours every 6 months to keep your coverage.

 

Crew rates very wildly here. Rates on non-union movies are completely negotiable. So-called 'New Media' and Tier 0 and Tier 1 movies are also negotiable. A DPs rate is always negotiable in movies. Union TV rates are more controlled.

 

There are some non union shows which pay very well, particularly Reality shows. I shot a show recently where we had a Reality crew with us for a day. The camera ops were making double what I was making.

The other reality is that most union DPs, especially in the full contract, feature world would be able to pay off that $14,000 initiation fee in less than one week of gross pay. Plus, its 100% tax deductible!

 

G

[Miguel Angel]

The other reality is that most union DPs, especially in the full contract, feature world would be able to pay off that $14,000 initiation fee in less than one week of gross pay. Plus, its 100% tax deductible!

 

G

 

I will have to start shooting features in the union world! :D :D :D

[David Mullen ASC]

The other reality is that most union DPs, especially in the full contract, feature world would be able to pay off that $14,000 initiation fee in less than one week of gross pay. Plus, its 100% tax deductible!

 

G

 

 

Most union DP's that I know are making closer to the minimum rate, more like $7000/week...

[Gregory Irwin]

 

 

Most union DP's that I know are making closer to the minimum rate, more like $7000/week...

DPs working under the Hollywood Basic Contract in features? None that I know David. Even so, that would be only 2 weeks of gross pay. First ACs working under the same contract would be in the $5-7K per week range depending on their hourlies.

 

G

[Guest]

The other reality is that most union DPs, especially in the full contract, feature world would be able to pay off that $14,000 initiation fee in less than one week of gross pay. Plus, its 100% tax deductible!

 

G

 

I have a good friend who just paid that to join IATSE 600. My gosh it really sounds like a racket, paying $14, 000.00 essentially so you can work.

 

R,

[David Mullen ASC]

Best financial investment I ever made in my life. Otherwise I'd still be doing non-union features that were offering me $1000/week and I'd have no healthcare nor pension for retirement, and not enough salary to save up for any of that. My income doubled the first year I joined and tripled the second year. Before that, I was earning less than $20,000 a year as a DP of feature films, and that was after 23 features and two Independent Spirit Award nominations.

 

You can work and not join, you'd just be doing non-union work. In the commercial world that can still be lucrative. But most TV shows and features with any significant budget are union productions. The only non-union cinematographers that do OK financially here in the U.S. either do a lot of commercials or they are on some long-form reality TV productions.

 

Due to the high cost of healthcare in the U.S., the truth is that a large part of dues and joining fees are going to pay for the healthcare of the retired members.

[Mark Dunn]

Extraordinary.

The closed shop was made illegal here nearly 30 years ago.

[Phil Rhodes]

You have to realise that these rates are sheer fantasy for almost all of the people on the planet who make a living in film. It's terribly easy to assume that something that's available to oneself is available to everyone, but thousands a week? Not on any planet near me.

[Miguel Angel]

Well,

 

When I was working as a 2nd AC on the biggest American productions in Spain the 1st AC didn't make 7K / week.. they don't make that nowadays either even when working with Chivo, Kaminski or Navarro.

 

7K / week for a DOP sounds like what they are making in Ireland on big tv series like Vikings / Penny Dreadful / Into The Badlands / etc.

 

Will have to join the union definitely! :D

[Bruce Greene]

I had lunch this week with a member of the American camera union who told me he hadn't worked enough hours to qualify for the healthcare.

 

I assume they still charge the dues.

Oh, yes they do!

[Adam Frisch FSF]

Greg, without going into personal specifics, a DP who shoots a Netflix show earns maybe $6-8K/week. I know this firsthand as a friend of mine shot House of Cards and they paid exactly $6K/week. I can do same money on a union commercial in fewer days. But I don't work as much as they do - maybe nothing in a month, maybe 2 days - if it's a great month maybe 10 days of shooting. So for an average month, let's say 8 days of shooting, I contribute roughly the same amount of money to their fund as a Netflix show DP does, but get nothing in return. I don't think that's fair. It should be tiered system, so that those who contribute most get the free health care, but those who fall below a certain amount might have to chip in a little to get the benefits. Now you can be 1 hr short of your 400hrs and the whole things goes away. It's either on or off. That's no way to raise a family, never really knowing if you got insurance (unless you check in daily to see how many hours you have in a qualifying period).

[David Mullen ASC]

I agree about having some sort of tiered qualification system for healthcare rather than this dramatic cut-off line. I had a bad year about two years ago and got that letter from Contract Services that I'd lose my healthcare in two months but luckily I got a job right after that. But most of these problems stem from the basic issue that healthcare in the U.S. is ridiculously expensive, which is hardly the union's fault.

[Stuart Brereton]

I agree. It's a nonsensical state of affairs when someone who has 401 hours gets healthcare, not only for them, but their family as well, yet someone with 399 gets nothing.

[David Mullen ASC]

Its a harsh way of cutting off the number of people who get access to the healthcare plan however, remember that this cut-off was something the producers insisted on, not the union.

[Stuart Brereton]

this cut-off was something the producers insisted on, not the union.

I know, but the higher that threshold gets, the fewer people will qualify, and that's less incentive to join the union. Which is, of course, exactly what the producers want. The union needs to find some backbone and start fighting for its members while it still has some.

[Miguel Angel]

Just out of curiosity.

 

Is 400 hours each 6 months or per year?

 

Thanks!

[Gregory Irwin]

 

Just out of curiosity.

 

Is 400 hours each 6 months or per year?

 

Its every six months. Any additional hours that are worked over and beyond the minimum requirement of 400 hours would be placed in a bank for the employee up to an additional 450 hours. If you come up short of hours to qualify, you can draw the necessary number of hours from your bank to keep your insurance.

 

G

[Gregory Irwin]

The other issue that the younger members of our guild will face will be the ability to reach the minimum for full retirement and pension. The minimum requirements are 30 years of service, 60 years of age and 60,000 union hours behind the camera. The longer you work past those minimums, the more you will make per month.

 

It should also be noted with all of the frustrations with qualifying for Motion Picture Health, assuming that you qualify for retirement, you stay on the health plan for life as well as your spouse.

 

G

[David Mullen ASC]

So I can't retire until I'm 71...

[Gregory Irwin]

So I can't retire until I'm 71...

Take solace in that ALL of the greats go long & prosper!!!

[Stuart Brereton]

So I can't retire until I'm 71...

Who wants to retire??!!

[Guest]

So if you don't work enough hours, you lose your healthcare? Wow, great...um....system ya'll got there.

 

No offense Gregory Irwin, not sure how you can defend this system and call it superior to how Canada and the UK do things. Anyone of you can have a bad run and not be able to find work.

 

This silliness right here proves what a ridiculous system it is:

"The other issue that the younger members of our guild will face will be the ability to reach the minimum for full retirement and pension. The minimum requirements are 30 years of service, 60 years of age and 60,000 union hours behind the camera. The longer you work past those minimums, the more you will make per month."

 

R,

[Guest]

Due to the high cost of healthcare in the U.S., the truth is that a large part of dues and joining fees are going to pay for the healthcare of the retired members.

 

And as they live longer and longer, the union is going to have a serious problem on their hands.

 

R,

[David Mullen ASC]

Not just unions, everyone -- governments or private institutions or individuals -- who promises to take care of the elderly. But what's the alternative?