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Samuel Berger

Kodak's New Super 8 Camera Update

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https://www.kodak.com/corp/blog/blog_post/?contentid=4295004933

 

Looks like it's going to be a bit more expensive than they thought, at $2500-$3000. Not a good move.

 

 

The KODAK Super 8 Camera and processing ecosystem will be available in 2018 for approximately $2500-$3000.

P.S. If you'll be at CES 2018 in Las Vegas, Nevada, stop by the Kodak Booth #20612 in South Hall Tech East to see a working prototype of the camera and get a demo of the KODAK Darkroom, your soon-to-be online destination for Super 8 storytelling.

 

The one thing I find innovative is that you can record sound with it. I'm very interested in how they will be synching the sound from the SD card to the actual film.

 

It's very unfortunate that they are not taking projectors into consideration, nor developing new projectors.

Edited by Samuel Berger

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I got the email as well but I'm really concerned for Kodak and wondering if that camera & "processing ecosystem" will ever be a reality. I've been unable to buy film off of their website for a couple of weeks now. I've got plenty of D50 16mm for a project but wanted to pick up some S8mm to try out a loaner Bauer and all I'm getting is server errors. Not a real temp. issue as their online store has been this way for several weeks now http://store.kodak.com/store/kodak/en_US/DisplayCategoryListPage/ThemeID.4792758000/categoryID.70237500

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I thought it was going to retail for only like $400? Would anyone who already owns film cameras want this thing at that price point?

 

Was under the assumption it was made to be something to get newer digital shooters familiar with film cameras, at 3 grand I really have no interest.

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I thought it was going to retail for only like $400? Would anyone who already owns film cameras want this thing at that price point?

 

Was under the assumption it was made to be something to get newer digital shooters familiar with film cameras, at 3 grand I really have no interest.

 

People paying that much at launch will feel stabbed in the back when the price inevitably goes down.

It would be better for them to take a loss and make the product popular than to try to be the Apple of film by overpricing themselves squarely inside the hipster market.

 

I will still want it if it has the Logmar's pin registration system and pressure plate. That is the only true improvement that can make Super 8 a professional use format. Otherwise there is still no advantage to it and I'll continue to use my ZC-1000.

 

Tom, I hear the 50D carts have been sold out for some time. I bought mine from eBay instead.

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Im sure kodak doesnt want to anger fotokem, but I feel like a bigger thing for them would be offering process paid service on 16mm, maybe even 35 as a way to expand the market for motion picture film.

Sadly even with the Max8 gate (or larger?) this thing has, for the price point Im gonna just shoot 16. Heck, a 16mm cartridge camera would have made more sense than this thing...

 

Im really afraid this camera's price point is smack in that digital bolex price dead zone - too expensive for a point of entry for many people, but lacking things any professional might want. Which means it'll sell out right when they declare they're discontinuing it...

 

that all being said I still kinda want one. just annoying that its gonna cost more than my SR3 cost me

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People paying that much at launch will feel stabbed in the back when the price inevitably goes down.

It would be better for them to take a loss and make the product popular than to try to be the Apple of film by overpricing themselves squarely inside the hipster market.

 

I will still want it if it has the Logmar's pin registration system and pressure plate. That is the only true improvement that can make Super 8 a professional use format. Otherwise there is still no advantage to it and I'll continue to use my ZC-1000.

 

Tom, I hear the 50D carts have been sold out for some time. I bought mine from eBay instead.

 

 

This doesn't appear to be an issue of them being sold out. Up until about 3 weeks ago, you could see all of the S8, 16, & 35 mm offerings but some would indicate availability for order & some would not but that would vary over time. Their online store has just been a server error for several weeks now. If it were an issue with their web pages, they'd have it fixed within 24 hours.

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They have done a fine job of erasing my hopes of ever owning this camera. For $3K I need a new shed or concrete patio. I originally thought they would mass produce the R&D already in place by Logmar, as a way of bringing down the price tag that drove everyone off the field... and only s 30 units. But it's the same thing all over again. A new camera hyped and anticipated while the R&D costs slowly raise the price tag beyond what's feasible to the target user.

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Here is some Logmar footage:

 

 

https://vimeo.com/groups/super8/videos/87243287

 

The first one is cleaner, but that is why I feel some folks will still go for the new Kodak camera. I don't like the new high price which much higher than the originally proposed $750 but in the end they are proposing a more professional means of film acquisition. That first video, had it not been for the dirt on the gate, would have been indistinguishable from S16. This from a small camcorder shaped camera that is easily concealed and taken possibly anywhere and captures sound.

 

It's really overpriced for its market but it's also a game-changer. That's the trade-off. I just hope this isn't the death of Super 8 instead of its revival, because other than myself I don't know a single Super 8 enthusiast who will buy this.

 

Edit: second video doesn't embed, has to be seen on Vimeo.

Edited by Samuel Berger

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How does this look so incredibly clean? Is it just that most Youtube videos are using old expired stock they found in their basement?

 

Pressure-plate + pin registration + 50D low grain film + Gamma Ray Digital 2K scan.

 

Ive been looking at pictures of the Super 8 camera prototype by Kodak and it looks like it will NOT have the same internal movement as the Logmar. If this is true I'm not buying it.

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Ive been looking at pictures of the Super 8 camera prototype by Kodak and it looks like it will NOT have the same internal movement as the Logmar. If this is true I'm not buying it.

It does not have the same gate which pulls the film out of the cart, they did mention that a lot of the R&D has gone into improving the gate system and claim it's paying off. I expect the registration will be good.

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It does not have the same gate which pulls the film out of the cart, they did mention that a lot of the R&D has gone into improving the gate system and claim it's paying off. I expect the registration will be good.

 

$3000 good?

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The right direction of a price correction would have been from $2,000 to $600.

You still deal with that darn stupid, idiotic, cybernetics-from-hour-one cartridge.

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I have too many Super 8 cameras to bother considering the new one, but its steadiness looks interesting. That Logmar video is the best Super 8 footage I've ever seen. Sharp as ever, and you can even see the fine detail in the grass, bricks on house, etc. Gives 16mm a run for its money.

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I have too many Super 8 cameras to bother considering the new one, but its steadiness looks interesting. That Logmar video is the best Super 8 footage I've ever seen. Sharp as ever, and you can even see the fine detail in the grass, bricks on house, etc. Gives 16mm a run for its money.

 

But that level isn't attainable without proper registration and pressure plate. And as good as it looks, it would look different on a projector due to the sprocket hole flying around in the frame. Not to mention that you can't watch projected negative film.

I'm glad to see Ektachrome coming back, I just wish the camera had the Logmar registration system.

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I'm more interested in their processing & transfer system. If they can keep that reasonable I will shoot more Super 8. Right now I'd rather shoot 16mm since the transfer costs me about the same anyway.

 

As far as the $2500 price point, it is high compared to all the used cameras we have but with good DSLRs costing $3000+ and the best Super 8 cameras back in the day costing a similar amount its really not out of the ballpark. They may not sell a ton of them but its not unreasonable for what's involved with making them.

 

But if they wanted a hipster film revolution boost they need to get that down to $500 or so.

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Good points, Will. I am hoping, if the new camera doesn't live up to their sales expectations, that at least the "ecosystem" they are proposing won't be discarded with it.

 

In the past, offering processing had led to monopoly issues but this isn't the case today.

 

If anything, it will get people to use their old cameras more. I just hope that this doesn't cause a camera price hike. If it does...well, I have plenty of them hoarded already. ;-) But it's unlikely.

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But that level isn't attainable without proper registration and pressure plate. And as good as it looks, it would look different on a projector due to the sprocket hole flying around in the frame. Not to mention that you can't watch projected negative film.

I'm glad to see Ektachrome coming back, I just wish the camera had the Logmar registration system.

Why do you want the Logmar registration system? If you want steady and fine detailed film images, the same money will get you an Arri or Aaton 16mm camera that will be way way better, and quiet to boot. And the cost of film, processing and transfer isn't much more.

 

The only real advantages to S8 are ease of use and cheap cameras, and the charm of the medium itself. I never saw the point of the Logmar camera to be honest. If you want the small format look with best quality, get a Bolex H8. Or shoot S16 and crop a little window out of the middle of it. ;)

  • Upvote 2

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Dom, for a second I thought it was Simon Wyss who was posting. :D

 

I have enough 16mm camera packages, I just want to see film stay alive. The reality is that most people who are tangentially attracted to film will try Super 8 for ease of use. When I was 8 I didn't want an SLR because I thought threading the film would be too difficult and so kept using a very silly Instamatic that shot 126 Kodak cartridges. Too many adults will feel the same about 16mm.

 

There are thousands of inexpensive cameras out there, and projectors. People thinking of trying film for the first time are much more likely to snap up an Elmo For $8 than an Arri or Aaton for $3000.

 

If Super 8 dies, film could very well die with it because you lose that cheap, accessible entryway into the world of celluloid.

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I herewith declare that I shall never accept a Kodak Super-8 camera for repair.

 

Double-Eight cameras I continually do service and, Samuel, those are the right entryway. Relatively cheap, reliable, open of concept, and film is available: Kodak Vision3 negatives from Dennis Toeppen; black and white stocks from various sources.

 

It was the Eastman-Kodak Company that introduced not only the Super-8 and the 16mm formats but also 2 × 8!

 

To round matters off, there are Regular-8 projectors that make 16mm projectors look pale. Something for every taste

Edited by Simon Wyss

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If Super 8 dies, film could very well die with it because you lose that cheap, accessible entryway into the world of celluloid.

 

Unfortunately it's just not as cheap and accessible as it used to be. If Kodak comes up with an inexpensive HD transfer then that may go a long way to keeping film alive...although it will drive other companies out of business and I'm sure they are sensitive to that.

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Edited out of fear after looking further into sources of Double 8mm film.

 

The rabbit trail does not end well.

Edited by Samuel Berger

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$3000 just defies any logic. I really want this camera, I have the money, I have my own 2K scanner, but I won't buy it at this price. Now what whimsical consumer is going to jump on this? It will sort itself out one way or another.

Edited by Anthony Schilling

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I don't quite understand Kodak's vision. This new camera doesn't really offer anything that doesn't already exist. I love the interview on the podcast where filmmakers talked about the camera having a monitor. Jesus guys, both my S16 and S35 cameras have monitors, I even have wireless transmitters! This technology has been around for decades, why is this a new thing?

 

The other thing is that minute per minute super 8 is more expensive than S16. This is mainly because it's considered a "speciality" format and the user is paying for the expense of a cartridge based system. If they brought back longer loads for instance, maybe we could talk about bringing the cost down. However, the fact they're still using the ol' 50 ft cartridge design, means the costs are going to be more then S16 no matter what.

 

What kills me about this new camera... outside of it not having a proper optical viewfinder, is that the damn thing is still loud. It's not a "sync sound" camera, like they're trying to promote. For $2500 bux you can get a serious Super 16 Bolex kit off ebay and yes, it won't have all those fancy digital components, but it will create a crisper more stable image from an "MOS" camera.

 

When Kodak initially announced the new camera would cost $600 - $800 in that rage, it made sense. Younger people who wanted to experiment could do so, without too much cost. If it were a sync sound "quiet" Super 8 camera with a logmar style movement and a spinning mirror shutter and optical viewfinder, then the $2500 - $3000 price tag would be worth it. I just don't see this camera making any significant impact in the industry as it stands.

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