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Samuel Berger

Some Canon C200 samples

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I haven't seen a lot of C200 talk on this forum so I thought I'd put this out there.

 

These are some professional videos made with the C200. My favourite one is "STICKY SITUATION". It's only one minute long and if you only watch one of these....make it that one. ;-)

 

 

 

 

https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/672743959

 

 

 

None of them are as nice as what the C300 Mark II can do, but what the cinematographers do with the camera is what makes the difference.

Edited by Samuel Berger
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Hello Samuel, thanks for sharing!

 

I only can see the videos upload in vimeo from here, but beautiful cinematography and I agree, I love "sticky situation", great production work there with the sticky suit.

 

 

Bye!

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There's this, too, from Max Yuryev.

 

 

From the comments: "The biggest issue with this camera seems to be the lack of a 10 bit internal codec which you pointed out would kill off the C300 if Canon had it in the C200."

 

Interesting. He didn't like the Ursa Mini but he liked this.

Edited by Samuel Berger

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I mean it's not a "bad" camera in any way. You can shoot Canon Raw lite, which give you a beautiful 12 bit 422 signal @ 4k. You can shoot LongGOP for those interviews. It's got XLR inputs and built in filters and good/high ISO and a decent imager.

 

Honestly the only downside to the camera in my opinion is the codec issues and physical size. It's a worthless camera to "use" sadly. :(

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With the autofocus capabilities (which I gather are basically the most advanced you can get at the moment), it seems like a fantastic, affordable B-camera to keep on the drone/gimbal permanently.

It's lacking too many of the usual things for A-camera work. But I think it's great, and the pictures I've seen so far look superb.

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It has the same sensor as the C300 Mark II. I think the consensus is that for indie filmmaking the C300 Mark II has no real advantage over the C200, it's only in broadcasting that the C300 Mark II has advantages.

 

The C300 Mark III is going to be announced in April for around $17000.

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It has the same sensor as the C300 Mark II. I think the consensus is that for indie filmmaking the C300 Mark II has no real advantage over the C200, it's only in broadcasting that the C300 Mark II has advantages.

 

The C300 Mark III is going to be announced in April for around $17000.

I think 'consensus' is a bit of a stretch. For narrative filmmaking, timecode and PL mounts are very important features.

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I think 'consensus' is a bit of a stretch. For narrative filmmaking, timecode and PL mounts are very important features.

 

I meant that it was the consensus in the YouTube comparisons I watched, as well as their comments section. There are PL-to-EF adapters, just not the other way around, which is why I don't use my Ursa Mini 4K PL.

But as far as timecode goes, doesn't bother me one bit to use an external recorder.

 

The other issue is that Canon products devaluate over time so spending the extra dough on the C300 Mark II can cause...physical pain when the price goes down again. It was released at $16k, dropped down to $12k and then $10k. I imagine it will drop again after NAB.

 

 

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I'm pretty sure the FS7 isn't seen as in the same league as the C200, though. I don't think you can get that ubiquitous "milky white" look with anything other than a Canon.

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This video was shot at ISO 800 and the guy who made it primarily used Sigma 18-35 f1.8 and Canon 50mmf1.2. All interviews and indoor scenes were lit with Aputure & Fiilex leds. Outdoor B-Roll was mostly natural light.

 

 

This next video was shot on 10 Bit RAW, with Sigma 18-35 ART, EF 100-400 IS II, DJI Ronin M, ZOOM H4N, Edited in Davinci Resolve.

 

 

None of them are mine, I'm just sharing C200 samples.

 

Shot in Raw Light with Canon 50mm f/1.4 and Sigma 24-105mm

 

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The C200 is a thorn in my side. If it didn't exist I'd have already purchased an Ursa Mini Pro. But since it does exist, I have to wait until I sell my Arri 2C 2-perf camera to be able to afford the difference.

 

I like the C200 form factor a lot better than the UMP because the UMP is heavier and bulkier. The C200 is kind of like a Bell & Howell Filmo 70DR for the digital age...even though there's the odd EVF.

 

The C200 has perfect DPAF. No AF on the UMP.

 

Where the UMP is better than the C200 is in the fact that you can use a SSD recorder instead of the stupid internal CFast cards.The card slot door on the C200 prevents you from using a CFast-to-SSD adapter. Also the UMP has proper internal recording codecs whereas the C200 requires an external Atomos Shogun Inferno to work well.

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Have you considered the Panasonic EVA-1?

 

I looked at it and it's not really very interesting. It's also practically the same price as the C200 so there's no real reason to consider it.

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I really can't wait for NAB. Canon product prices always go down.

I think they screwed up with the C200 in a couple of ways. A single CFast card slot is simply not enough. Then there's the ridiculous lack of proper codecs.

Everything else, though, makes it the perfect camera for folks like me who would love to own a C300 Mark II but can't afford it.

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Canon's return policy on this camera is that there is no return policy. Interesting, it makes me think they have no confidence in their product.

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So it seems the Cinematography.com forum has unequivocably rejected the Canon EOS C200. This is very telling. Professionals and hobbyists over here are ignoring a camera that was fairly hyped up on Youtube.

It's considered not as good as the C300 Mark II for the price, not professional enough, not even on the level of the FS7, overpriced due to costing more than the Ursa Mini Pro, and laughed at because of its codec or lack thereof.

 

If I buy this thing i'm going to be all alone in the forum Universe.

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Here's something to understand, things hyped on youtube or elsewhere are really not indicative of the industry as a whole. Youtube exists to make money for people, to get exposure, and so the people on there will do what they do in an attempt to get viewers-- and it's not as though it's in any way peer reviewed. You can say whatever you want to say about a camera thereon.

If you want a good idea of what types of cameras are being used in the wild, you need to get onto sets and see what, how, and why they are using x or y system. You can then extrapolate that info (especially the whys) to new cameras which come out and reason your way into where it might fit later on. There is no guarantee this will be correct, every purchase is a rick-- trying to do business is a risk. You have to choose your own risks to take and sometimes you'll be wrong very wrong, but you stick through and work through the repercussions as they come out.

Canon's return policy doesn't matter, what matters is the seller's return policy-- e.g. BH or Amazon or Adorama or whomever.

 

I'll give you an example of risk. When my dad died I sold the house we co-owned because without his disability, and being in college, I couldn't afford it. I had a big wad of cash (income) i wanted to drop down for tax reasons, and having money at the time, I figured I could and should buy a camera. I had the option of a used S16mm camera or pre-ordering a new "RED" one camera (M sensor!). I chose the S16mm because I figured it was a proven system from a proven company. That camera eventually turned a profit and made me a much better DoP, but I didn't no make too much money at all. Had I bought a Red, I'd probably own a yacht by now given the market conditions I was in at the time. But I didn't. For a long time I regretted that, but that was silly of me to do because I was still working and paying bills.

In you case, you eventually have to choose the risk to take, if you can't, then you'll loose. No matter which risk you take, it won't be the be all end all, but you eventually have to make your choice and work through the repercussions there-to (and not making a choice is in and of itself making a choice and you can miss out on something good).

 

As for the C200 proper. I'm sure it will find it's place, like all the other "C" cameras and every camera has. It might not be as used as the C300mkII or whatever other new camera comes out, much like the Ursa v1 4K isn't used as much as the Mini Pro, or for a more recent example, the Micro Cinema Camera -v- the Pocket 4K (I am sure the pocket 4K will be used a lot more), but that isn't to say it won't be an item productions will lean on.

 

As to the people here, many, I would assume, work in commercial, music video, and narrative which has never really embraced the C series cameras at all instead being dominated by Arri and Red, and to a lesser extent Sony. For most people here we use those cameras because of the whole ecosystem of rental houses and support that have grown around them and that momentum is hard to sway.
The "C" cameras have always been more relegated to Documentary, ENG, Reality, and Corporate--- basically things for broadcast with quick turn around and deadlines as well as very specific post set ups which will run for a series of shows from a production company. Once they have settled on a camera system, it is often very hard to change those post things over and there is little time to re-learn and re-train on new cameras (and some smaller production companies may own all their own kit for the run of the show). So as the C200 is basically brand new, there is no way of knowing if it'll be incorporated into those situations yet (broadcast) but you can be fairly certain it will find a spot in the industrial/corporate world since it, like many of the "prosumer" cameras before it, comes in at a not awful price point.

 

And all of this really isn't the issue; because it really doesn't matter what some other people do, what matters is what you choose to do and how you figure to present that. I don't think anyone can really honestly tell you the "right" thing to do because you'll have to analyze your own situation, market conditions, and formulate a plan to get you from where you are to where you want to be in that industry. This is a lot more than which camera to buy, but also what kind of profits I need to turn, what expansion plans I have, what is my debt ratio I'm comfortable with, what costs do I have to keep in mind and what is the primary type of shoot I am going to be 1) working in relatively soon and 2) planning to move into and thereby how does this particular system (camera, support, AKS, post ect) slot me into that next level. It has very little to do with the technical capabilities of the camera, but the business model around it and the person behind it.

 

As for the forum universe? Who cares. I don't even own a camera, and that certainly isolates me, any more, from the indy world of film production as a whole which is really getting filled with owner ops. It really doesn't matter. And if anything it would be a benefit to have one person with a C200 on the forum to help all of those who come along later and teach all of us about the camera if you choose to get it (much like Tyler and his "pocket love")

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So far the Ursa Mini 4K has been great. But, I only own one PL lens for it. An Angenieux 25-250 which weighs 16 pounds. If it had an EF mount, it's very likely I would not be looking for another camera.

Today is the last day that B&H will be selling the C200 at a NAB discount price. Sigh.

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I do find it interesting that reviewers are in awe that the C200 records Raw internally. The Blackmagic cameras have been doing that for some time.

 

I wanted to point out, in case other people in the same situation as mine are googling this, that the truth is that the Ursa Mini Pro sort of requires that EVF. It costs around $1500 in addition to the $5995 for the Ursa Mini Pro. So in the end you're paying the same amount for the UMP as you would for the C200.

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