Jump to content

What laptop?


Recommended Posts

Guest Kai.w
"I just want to settle this whole Virus thing. If you're using windows XP SP2 all you have to do is turn on the auto update feature, turn on the windows firewall (having a hardware firewall is a good thing too) then don't download any attachments from anyone unless you are expecting something from someone, don't use Microsoft Outlook, Use Mozilla Thunderbird, Don't use Internet Explorer, Use Mozilla Firefox (www.getfirefox.com), and finally be smart about what websites you go to and what you download"

 

Good bloody grief!!! This is the strongest argument to date on why a person SHOULD buy a Mac!

 

If the above is true what can you do with a PC besides use it as a boat anchor???

 

I never worry about any of that BS, geez buy a Mac.

 

R,

This is SO wrong! OS X has security issues (I'm not talking about Virus) too, just like any other OS. So even mac users need to update their system to get those fixed. You are telling me Mac users don't need to bother with network security? Give me a break!

The usage of Thunderbird and Firefox is also recommended on macs (simply cause OS Xs "mail" is really bad and safari is damn slow...)

I know quite a few people who totally messed up their powerbooks because they thought "its a mac, I don't need to know how a computer works and what problems that global garbage dump called internet could cause". Turning autoupdate and firewall on in XP is easy for infants...

OS X is a nice OS but it is still far from being perfect and not so much ahead of its competition. Plus the mac-hardware is not as good as many people want to make you think....

 

In any case if you do want to edit HD on a notebook you'll need some CPU power where I seriously doubt you gonna be happy with a g4 Powerbook (the whole move of apple to intel is mainly due to g4 getting really old and slow and the g5 needing to much power for mobile uses)

You'd better check whether HDV editing in iMovie or FCP may require(!) a g5 CPU.

 

Notebooks have become fast and hip but if you wanna do serious editing in HD I'd still recommend a desktop computer / workstation.

If you do want mobile editing why not edit "offline" in DV?

 

-k

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 86
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

So much anti Mac sentiment. If you like XP better there is little reason to trash Mac's to prove it.

 

Agreed as far as pure hardware, a PC laptop at this point will have a faster processor and graphics card than a Power Book. PC users love to point out hardware - hardware.

 

But the whole reason we use these things is for the software. How the hardware and software work together.

 

It is also important to look at the total cost of ownership. How long will the hardware be viable to run the latest software, and how long will it retain its resale value. There are people with old Power Books running the latest Apple software. I know people with old PC laptops that to some degree are frozen in time with older software and are unable to run some current software.

 

OS X has security flaws, this is true, but what is more important is that Apple fixes them, and they never really become a serious problem.

 

What do you mean Kai that OS X's Mail is bad. What does bad mean? I use it as my e-mail client. It downloads my e-mail, I read it, what else is it supposed to do?

 

With Safari Web Browser that actually is Microsoft's fault. The Safari team are working to abide by international open standards of how websites and web browsers are supposed to work a display pages. It's the same for Firefox, KHTML and many others are working to abide by open international standards.

 

But Microsoft isn't. Internet Explorer is full of its own controls for displaying web pages. Since IE is the most used browser in the world most web pages are optimized for it even if it does not abide by open standards that have been set.

 

So other web browsers such as Safari and Firefox have to incorporate signatures of IE and fool the web site into thinking it is IE instead of Safari or Firefox. In turn these browsers are accused of being slow.

 

To continue pointing out the hardware differences between a Mac and a PC. Yes the PC has more raw muscle. What you need to understand is the computer doesn't need as much hardware muscle if the software is made to run on that specific platform. For example when Final Cut Pro is being designed, Apple knows the hardware it will run on because they design that too. They know how to optimize Final Cut Pro for editing HD on a 1.6 GHz G4 Power Book. Final Cut Pro does not have to be optimized to run on any other platform.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So much anti Mac sentiment. If you like XP better there is little reason to trash Mac's to prove it.

 

This entire thread is a waste of bandwidth and time. If you want to use Final Cut, get a Mac. If you want to use Avid or anything else, get whatever you want. It just doesn't matter, except to people who want to waste their time trying to convince others to see the world their way.

 

Sounds like American politics, doesn't it? And don't we agree that's a complete waste of time?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Kai.w
So much anti Mac sentiment. If you like XP better there is little reason to trash Mac's to prove it.

Where did you see anti-mac sentiment...? I just could not stand people bash windows for the need to turn on autoupdate and a firewall claiming this would be too much of a hassle. I have no anti-mac sentiment, and I'm working on four different OS daily... personally I prefer linux for the idea behind it but I guess one could call me a more experienced computer user, so linux is fine for me but not for many others...

 

OS X has security flaws, this is true, but what is more important is that Apple fixes them, and they never really become a serious problem.

So does microsoft... so does the linux community. Sure OS X is safer than windows but it is not like you don't need to know about those issues on macs and thats what I was pointing out! No anti-mac sentiment here. If you think you can get away with not dealing with updates and network security just because it is OS X... you'll be in for some surprise.

 

What do you mean Kai that OS X's Mail is bad. What does bad mean? I use it as my e-mail client. It downloads my e-mail, I read it, what else is it supposed to do?

If you do have lots (and I mean LOTS) of email, multiple accounts and access connections etc. I know quite a few people who had serious issues with mail which disappeared after they switched to Thunderbird.

 

So other web browsers such as Safari and Firefox have to incorporate signatures of IE and fool the web site into thinking it is IE instead of Safari or Firefox. In turn these browsers are accused of being slow.

I'm not talking about incompatibility, which as a linux firefox user I'm complaining too, but about speed. Fooling webpages about ones identity has no impact on the speed of a browser, or Firefox would be slower on PCs than IE (which it is not).

 

To continue pointing out the hardware differences between a Mac and a PC. Yes the PC has more raw muscle. What you need to understand is the computer doesn't need as much hardware muscle if the software is made to run on that specific platform. For example when Final Cut Pro is being designed, Apple knows the hardware it will run on because they design that too. They know how to optimize Final Cut Pro for editing HD on a 1.6 GHz G4 Power Book. Final Cut Pro does not have to be optimized to run on any other platform.

Alright you are mostly fine if you stick to apple software, because they do optimize their software. Granted FCP has some decent performace. However if you need anything that is not done by apple chances of optimization are pretty low (look at the rather bad Shake performance on macs and the abyssmal performance of combustion or maya). In any case for relaxed HDV editing you'll need a powerfull computer with decent CPU/mainbus/harddrive-speed regardless the plattform and I simply said that the g4s, especially in a notebook environtment are just not up to date anymore so one would be better off getting a desktop (G5 or PC).

On a sidenote (and this is probably my only "anti-mac" sentiment): I find it funny that certain business practices that everybody accuses M$ for are totally ok if done by apple (look at logic, shake, etc.)

 

-k

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Kai.w
This entire thread is a waste of bandwidth and time. If you want to use Final Cut, get a Mac. If you want to use Avid or anything else, get whatever you want. It just doesn't matter, except to people who want to waste their time trying to convince others to see the world their way.

Why is it a waste of bandwith? Buying a computer for work is a serious investment and I'd never put a simple answer to this question. There are certain arguments which under certain conditions speak in favor of one system others points are strong on other systems. It's not easy and one can definately talk about the pros and cons. This has nothing to do with a religious war although sometimes it might look like that cause people with no overview tend to defend their choice against anything...

 

-k

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think this is a waste either as computers more and more infultrate our industry, it is fine for people to ask what do you prefer and why?

 

I wish the topic could stay within the realm of fact and not zealotry. But of course by definition there need to be some room to critisize the platform you don't use because there is a reason you don't want to use it.

 

I'm not a MS basher per se, but you cannot easily dismiss the virus problem. It is a big problem. And it cannot be brushed away by saying most people are idiots and don't know how to run antivirus software and fire walls. MS needs to figure out a way of dealing with this problem that is more invisible to the average user. I don't want to deal with that stuff and its one big reason I use Mac. Downloading a software patch is a pretty unobtrusive process.

 

If you do have lots (and I mean LOTS) of email, multiple accounts and access connections etc. I know quite a few people who had serious issues with mail which disappeared after they switched to Thunderbird.

 

 

As far as the e-mail I don't know what constitutes a lot of mail. I have over 300 messages in my in and out boxes, with various attachements (documents, photo, video). I don't have multiple accounts, and I don't have problems with my connection to Gmail.

 

Your criticism would be more constructive if you just stated there are functions that Thunderbird is better at than Apple Mail.

 

 

And web page/browser incompatibility is a problem. By the very nature if you have two web sites and browsers working with different standards there will be problems. As a Safari user I see pages that at first post signs that say your browser is incompatible, then as Safari identifies itself as IE the page clears up and appears normal.

 

I find it funny that certain business practices that everybody accuses M$ for are totally ok if done by apple (look at logic, shake, etc.)

 

Well there is a key difference between the two. Apple does not dominate any market to the point of putting its competitors out of business.

 

MS hasn't really had an original idea of any real relevance. It has a particular predatory practice of waiting in the wings while a small nimble company comes up with an innovative solution. MS creates its own version to then use their dominance to strangle the smaller company and take over that market.

 

Not to mention how MS does not support open standards in lieu of their own proprietary.

 

Coming up in the MS target next is Adobe and Google.

Edited by tenobell
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well I certainly didn't want to get computer "Holy Wars" going. I've used both extensively and don't really have a favorite. I was just thinking that a laptop is going to be a good thing to have in the near future with all the look management going down and I was curious what people were using.

 

Looks like 3CP runs only on Mac but I don't know if I would even be running that or Lustre. I might just stick with doing it on photoshop. Obviously that's not going to handle a meta-data set-up though. And I also wonder about the Technicolor digital printer light system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However if you need anything that is not done by apple chances of optimization are pretty low

 

 

That's not entirely true either. There are some great third party products for the Mac. In fact on the message boards for some software developers people ask "can you port this to Windows?"

 

Apple lays out a clear framework and API's for developers to use in optimizing their code for OS X. Its an entire API framework called Carbon, Core Image, and Core Audio fully laid out for developers to use.

 

There actually is an advantage to developers because of Apple's small market share. Being a small market information on good and bad applications travels fast, so if your software stinks its not likely too many people are going to buy it. If its great you can dominate the market.

 

If a developer make's an application that becomes a hit, that app can be number 1 in a small market. But it is a dedicated and loyal user base of tens of millions, and that is still a lot of money.

 

3CP runs only on Mac but I don't know if I would even be running that or Lustre. I might just stick with doing it on photoshop.

 

 

Just so long as you know. Photoshop does not really work in film or video color space. It is primarily a tool for print graphics. 3CP is diffirent because to its core it was created to work in film and video color space.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member

Hi,

 

Just be aware that the security advantages of things like Firefox and OSX are really just security through obscurity. There's no reason to believe they're intrinsically better than any other solution, they're just not so much of a target.

 

As for the problem of people being too stupid to run competent security, I take a hardline approach. If you choose to run Windows, you are part of a target group; if you want to run Windows, not deal with security and not get hit by viruses, fine, but please stay off the net and avoid becoming part of the problem.

 

The concept of unrestricted internet access being available only to people who've done something akin to the radio ham licence is attractive.

 

Phil

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Premium Member
... The concept of unrestricted internet access being available only to people who've done something akin to the radio ham licence is attractive. ...

Now there's the kernel of an idea for a movie script! :)

 

- Peter DeCrescenzo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll add my twocents to this silly debate (apples and personal computers :) )

 

Like someone mentioned earlier

The main reason to buy a computer is for the applications ergo software...

 

Now as a filmmaker this is usually broken down into editing software...

If you like Final Cut Pro---get an Apple

If you're use Avid Xpress or Premiere Pro---get a PC

 

That's the simplest it can be put...

 

Now if you're interested in doing serious FXs and Design

Or editing HD or large resolution files and need to do it quickly

You might have to get a specially made computer...

Which in any case (Mac or PC) means money...

Usually you'll find better & cheaper hardware on the PC side

Which means it's might be best to get a PC...

 

Eitherways what I can most assurely recommend (without my head chopped)

Don't rely on a Laptop if you want to do serious editing

Or any serious work with graphics or design

Or just anything involving large amounts of data---

Get a desktop and supe it up with lots and lots and lots of hardware.

 

Personally I'm a PC user...

(And I find the rumors of viruses & crashing thing a big load of you know....)

But when I do editing (which is rare) I perfer FCP

So the only reason I'd consider getting a Powerbook is because of FCP

 

Otherwise PCs are very good

Some High-end laptops are excellent editing machines...

Like Alienware...but they'll cost as much (if not more) than a Powerbook

Although they'll have outstanding features that'll overdo a Powerbook.

 

For the average computer user either/or is fine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Kai.w
That's not entirely true either. There are some great third party products for the Mac. In fact on the message boards for some software developers  people ask "can you port this to Windows?" 

 

This true in theory. But there is a reason why the software done by apple is so popular among apple users...one being that they actually optimize whereas most others don't (look at premiere/FCP). There are a few positive examples of non-apple apps that run comparably fast on macs (Photoshop, AfterFX, Cinema4D, etc.) but at least to me it seems that many other companies do not bother. This is true for new sound apps as well as for what I'm mainly interested in compositing and 3d.

Considering the mac port of combustion I would not really bother with lustre on a mac. Of course this is discreets fault (AfterFX runs just fine) but it does not help it.

 

I'm not a MS basher per se, but you cannot easily dismiss the virus problem. It is a big problem. And it cannot be brushed away by saying most people are idiots and don't know how to run antivirus software and fire walls. MS needs to figure out a way of dealing with this problem that is more invisible to the average user. I don't want to deal with that stuff and its one big reason I use Mac. Downloading a software patch is a pretty unobtrusive process.

The virus problem is an issue for the unexperienced user. However I'd definately say people once they >know< about this problem and still don't figure out how to switch on the firewall are not intelligent enough to work at a computer ;)

Seriously could you please tell me the fundamental difference between

Apple menu > system preferences > sharing > firewall > activate

and

Start menu > system control > windows-firewall > active

???

or

Apple menu > system preferences > software updates

and

Start menu > system control > automatic updates

 

This is very easy to do on both platforms and I can't see what M$ could improve about that and I totally disagree about this should be more invisible. So I can't see why you use a mac just because its more easy to deal with this. Its just not true. What is true is that OS X has yet no virus problem and less security issues to begin with but the way you have to deal with it (and I still think you have to) is pretty similar and simple on both platforms.

Look I'm a linux fan and yet I see that the linux-community seems to react even slower to upcoming security problems than the evil empire. I do believe that M$ has learned its lesson. They have fixed monthly updates rather good inbuilt firewalls and virusprotection. The problem is that lots of their "technologies" (hmmm...ActiveX) are just security issues by itself <_<

 

To get back on topic... as I said before and as Rik pointed out if you want to do serious editing / graphics / compositing work get yourself a desktop/workstation. This is true regardless the platform.

 

I still don't think this is a silly debate... I followed lengthy debates about which filesystem to use under linux (the holy wars between reiserFS and XFS) and I still learned something... :rolleyes:

 

 

-k

Link to comment
Share on other sites

at the end of the day some people like to drive a chevy and some like to drive an audi.

 

Me? i drive a cannondale and write this from my garden on a 17" 1.67 Powerbook).

 

Keith

 

And I drive an Audi A6, and write this from my G4 desktop.

 

R,

 

PS: I'd also like to add that PCs are physically ugly hideous beasts. Does any one on the PC design team have any creativity? I like the sleek flowing curves of the Mac, just like the back of my A6, sleek and flowing. Maybe GM and PC makers could learn a thing or two from that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd also like to add that PCs are physically ugly hideous beasts. Does any one on the PC design team have any creativity? I like the sleek flowing curves of the Mac.....

 

 

You trying to keep the flame burning?

 

A better way, at least a less pejorative way of saying that.

 

Would be to point out that the Apple iBook laptop and the Apple iPod are in the permanent collection and on display as an icon of excellent Architecture and Design at the Museum of Modern Art in New York.

 

And you have a emotion free, opinion free, fact that says the same thing you just said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recently got a Dell Inspiron 700m and am loving it, mainly for the fact that it has an AMAZING display and weighs in at about 4 pounds.

 

While a 12.1" 16:9 display is somewhat tiny, resolution tops out at 1280x800, meaning super sharp images. Moreover, the screen is one of those glossy-type ones, which I prefer; the anti-reflective matte LCD displays (the most common) can appear to be significantly lower in contrast because the reflected light is diffused across the surface.

 

Great contrast, very bright, surprisingly wide viewing angle.

 

My $0.02USD. :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You trying to keep the flame burning?

 

A better way, at least a less pejorative way of saying that.

 

Would be to point out that the Apple iBook laptop and the Apple iPod are in the permanent collection and on display as an icon of excellent Architecture and Design at the Museum of Modern Art in New York.

 

And you have a emotion free, opinion free, fact that says the same thing you just said.

 

Yes that would be another less direct way.

 

Maybe that's why I've been signing my own pay check for the last four years?

 

R,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hasn't Apple claimed recently  they've been able to run OSX on Intel machines from the get go ?

 

I just noticed this question.

 

Yes Apple says they have been building OS X for Intel chips from the very beginning of OS X development. So for every Power PC build that went out to the public, Apple had a secret x86 built in the lab.

 

But x86 OS X will not be allowed to run on anything but a Mac. Many suspect that Apple may build its own custom motherboards that OS X will need to run. Or sometype of hardware on the board that OS X will need to run.

 

But even if a hacker is getting around all of that and runs OS X on a generic PC, there still won't be drivers to support their system, so it would be useless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes Apple says they have been building OS X for Intel chips from the very beginning of OS X development. So for every Power PC build that went out to the public, Apple had a secret x86 built in the lab.

Steve Jobs' WWDC 2005 keynote is online at http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/wwdc05/, most of which is about the x86 transition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Interesting info I just read.

 

Currently there are nearly 20 million Apple OS X users around the world. OS X has been public for four years now and has no public viruses.

 

The next version of Window's (VISTA) was just released last month as a beta to about 10,000 developers.

 

Can you guess? Yes viruses have already been developed for it. Code for viruses was released days after developers received the beta.

 

In a way this helps MS close holes before they release Vista late next year.

 

But man, they've been working on this thing with an army of programmers and billions in R&D for five years now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Forum Sponsors

BOKEH RENTALS

Film Gears

Metropolis Post

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineLab

CINELEASE

Cinematography Books and Gear



×
×
  • Create New...