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Kavish Agrawal

Shooting Rain Sequence

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Hi guys,

 

Ill be shooting a rain sequence soon. Heres a brief description of the scene:

Two cars come and stop in front of each other on a bridge. A person each gets out and start arguing and have a tussle. Another car pulls up and and 3 more people join and start fighting with the main guy ultimately injuring him.

 

It will be shot on a bridge which runs over a canal(attaching the location picture). So heres how I am planning to light it.

 

Will be asking the art director to install four street lamps on the bridge(5k sodium vapour lamps on dimmers, there is slow motion also hence such intensity of the bulb).

 

In the master shot(location picture attached, that axis), you can see the water body(can see the white waves), so planning to light that small portion(that is visible in the shot) with a moonlight source.

 

I want the rain to be backlight with the streetlight lamps for the fight sequence from one side and probably with the moonlight source(6k Par with 1/2 cto to get a semi blue color).

 

Planning to simlaute the bounce coming from streetlights for the facelight.(and backish moonlight).

 

Any thoughts on this?

Also, any particular points as to how to shoot rain sequences in night? I love the rain sequence in 'Road to Perdition' one of my references for the scene.

 

Color temperature: 3200k

 

PS. Might use the car headlights as well.

 

Thanks,

Kavish

 

post-75099-0-96136400-1534186619_thumb.jpg

Edited by Kavish Agrawal

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If it can be justified, I'd make that position with the 6K HMI look more like a cyan industrial metal halide lamp rather than make it moonlight. Sodium vapor will already be quite yellow-orange in comparison and real moonlight wouldn't be very bright in comparison to a streetlamp. If you make that far backlight look more like some taller metal halide streetlamp, it could actually be in the shot if on a black crane arm. I've even done things like put two 4K HMI's side-by-side because seeing two heads in the shot make it look more like some big streetlamp like for a highway.

 

But if that feels like too much practical lighting for the location, then go for the moonlight idea but don't make it too blue because it will already look blue compared to the sodium lights. I'd correct at least half the blue out of the HMI.

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Ill be shooting a rain sequence soon. ...any particular points as to how to shoot rain sequences in night?

 

However you decide to light the bridge be sure to use GFCIs on all the cables supplying your lights and ground the generator. GFCIs are a must when working around water in order to avoid someone taking a potentially lethal shock. When using large HMIs you will need to use film style GFCIs (Shock Blocks, Shock Stops, or Bender Lifeguards) that are specifically designed to accommodate the residual currents that HMIs shunt to ground that will cause standard GFCIs to nuisance trip. To prevent nuisance tripping film style GFCIs sense on an "Inverse Time Curve" and incorporate harmonic filters with a frequency response up to 120 hz. 3rd harmonics are attenuated by 50%, and by 500 Hz are down to 20%. Attenuated by the filter, the harmonics that HMI ballasts shunt to ground pose less of a problem.

 

ShockStop_Location_Still_Smaller.jpg

Our Shock Stop GFCI with either our 60, 84, or 100A Transformer/Distro is

the only way to bring Honda EU6500s or EU7000s

into OSHA compliance for use on work sites.

 

For more detailed information on how to use film style GFCIs to provide tiered ground fault protection on wet locations, use this link for a series of articles I wrote for Protocol magazine.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lightng & Grip Rental in Boston

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If it can be justified, I'd make that position with the 6K HMI look more like a cyan industrial metal halide lamp rather than make it moonlight. Sodium vapor will already be quite yellow-orange in comparison and real moonlight wouldn't be very bright in comparison to a streetlamp. If you make that far backlight look more like some taller metal halide streetlamp, it could actually be in the shot if on a black crane arm. I've even done things like put two 4K HMI's side-by-side because seeing two heads in the shot make it look more like some big streetlamp like for a highway.

 

But if that feels like too much practical lighting for the location, then go for the moonlight idea but don't make it too blue because it will already look blue compared to the sodium lights. I'd correct at least half the blue out of the HMI.

Thanks David! Hadn't thought about the metal hallide idea, will consider it. Even if i go for the moonlight, it wont be too blue, exactly like you said, will keep it subtle...Is it possible for you to share which film you did that(4k HMIs as streetlamps) so that i have a reference? Thanks again.

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This frame was from dailies -- we had this lot next to the highway in Albuquerque so I used two 4K HMI's (I think, maybe they were 6K's) on a condor to light the lot, then had a smaller condor with a tungsten soft box over the gas pump area.post-3-0-72101000-1534263872_thumb.jpg

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Not far off as I recall. There was a stronger yellow cast added to a number of scenes in post after I left the show so I can't be sure that this scene didn't end up being more yellow.

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This frame was from dailies -- we had this lot next to the highway in Albuquerque so I used two 4K HMI's (I think, maybe they were 6K's) on a condor to light the lot, then had a smaller condor with a tungsten soft box over the gas pump area.attachicon.gifgetshorty2.jpg

Looks great! Any particular reason behind going for a toppish soft source? What was the real source you had in mind that you want to simulate? Thanks!

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Looks great! Any particular reason behind going for a toppish soft source? What was the real source you had in mind that you want to simulate? Thanks!

 

The top soft light was meant to be the light over the pumps at gas stations.

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As an aside, how do GFCI's differ to RCD's? My understanding is that they do the same thing- tripping if detecting a 30ma leakage for example. I've never come across GFCI's in the UK- although this just might be my lack of experience?

 

 

 

However you decide to light the bridge be sure to use GFCIs on all the cables supplying your lights and ground the generator. GFCIs are a must when working around water in order to avoid someone taking a potentially lethal shock. When using large HMIs you will need to use film style GFCIs (Shock Blocks, Shock Stops, or Bender Lifeguards) that are specifically designed to accommodate the residual currents that HMIs shunt to ground that will cause standard GFCIs to nuisance trip. To prevent nuisance tripping film style GFCIs sense on an "Inverse Time Curve" and incorporate harmonic filters with a frequency response up to 120 hz. 3rd harmonics are attenuated by 50%, and by 500 Hz are down to 20%. Attenuated by the filter, the harmonics that HMI ballasts shunt to ground pose less of a problem.

 

ShockStop_Location_Still_Smaller.jpg

Our Shock Stop GFCI with either our 60, 84, or 100A Transformer/Distro is
the only way to bring Honda EU6500s or EU7000s
into OSHA compliance for use on work sites.

 

For more detailed information on how to use film style GFCIs to provide tiered ground fault protection on wet locations, use this link for a series of articles I wrote for Protocol magazine.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lightng & Grip Rental in Boston

 

 

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As an aside, how do GFCI's differ to RCD's? My understanding is that they do the same thing- tripping if detecting a 30ma leakage for example. I've never come across GFCI's in the UK- although this just might be my lack of experience?

 

 

 

 

Same thing. Both are examples of an earth-leakage circuit breaker.

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As an aside, how do GFCI's differ to RCD's? My understanding is that they do the same thing- tripping if detecting a 30ma leakage for example. I've never come across GFCI's in the UK- although this just might be my lack of experience?

 

As Phil points out both are ground fault protection devices. RCDs are the standard in EU countries while GFCIs are the standard for the US. The major difference between RCDs and GFCIs is that the trip threshold in RCDs is user-adjustable while, according to the UL 943 standard, GFCIs must follow a fixed current-time relationship. In place of the fixed curve of UL 943, the IEC 60947-1 standard stipulates a maximum breaking time depending on the set trip threshold. The break time stipulated in standard IEC 60947-1 for a trip threshold of 30 mA is rapid enough to avoid permanent organ damage and ventricular fibrillation. For this reason, a trip threshold of 30 mA has become the internationally accepted norm for RCDs intended to provide personnel protection against the risk of electrocution.

 

If you compare the curves for RCDs with sensitivities 10, 30, and 300 mA to the UL 943 curve, the trip times of RCDs are very short in comparison. For instance an RCD set for a trip threshold of 10 mA must trip within 300 ms, compared to approximately four seconds required by the UL 943 curve. Even though the curves of the IEC standards for RCDs are different than those stipulated by UL 943, they fall within the UL 943 curve and therefore are no less safe.

 

For more detailed information on how to use film style GFCIs to provide tiered ground fault protection on wet locations, use this link for a series of articles I wrote for Protocol magazine.

 

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lightng & Grip Rental in Boston

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