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2.67:1 (x2 anamorphic) location scout workflow


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Hello

 

I'm going to be making a feature film presented in 2.55 cinemascope via x2 anamorphic lenses on either the RED or Sony Panavision DXL2's. In other words, I'll be capturing 2.67 in camera, framing for 2.55 on set, and then resize/crop in post for the final 2.55:1 cinemascope presentation on a 4K DCP.
Exactly what they did in La La Land and then in the original 1950s films like Rebel Without a Cause.

 

 

My creative goal is to find/buy and use the best tool for locations scouting that grants me the ability to go around finding compositions, composing shots, and taking stills and video of the beginning/middle/end of a shot like a photographic storyboard/picture book.

To do so on a DSLR, I need a custom crop of 2.67:1 (or even 2.55 will work) in-camera, and while on a sensor mode that replicates the same vertical height 35mm lenses capture in 4:3 mode when shooting on digital or film.

 

Since x2 anamorphic lens adaptors like SLRMagic run about $1,500 -$2,000 and are only compatible with longer spherical focal length between 50-80mm, this approach is worthless since I wouldn't be able to attain the horizontal field of view in the wider anamorphic focal lengths of 25mm, 35mm or 50mm when attaching using my spherical 12,18, and 25mm primes. .... and I will mostly be using these anamorphic lenses in the actual film.

 

What I am trying to figure out how to work properly is use a 35mm FF DSLR to compose shots using my spherical primes to compose the equivalent HFOVs, but to somehow also shoot on a custom crop in a 4:3 mode to make sure the sensor is utilizing the same vertical height that is captured in 2.67 anamorphic.

 

Currently.... I'm using a Canon 5Diii with Magic Lantern. which grants a in-camera custom crop of 2.67 when set to HD resolution at 1920x720 aspect ratio. I'm also using the experimental build which reduces the RAW files down to 10bit in order to make the LiveView display totally usable without any lag during recording.

 

So this works great for the video side of things... though I am under the impression this is still not the equivalent vertical FOV which is captured in-camera before cropping the 2.67 image... since this custom HD crop is being derived in the 16x9 mode... Please confirm my suspicion?

If so, is it then safe to say that no tool, when shooting in 16x9 mode, whether custom crops straight out of camera or not (or when capturing uncropped 1.78 or even 1.90) are still not capturing the same (taller) Vertical FOV as an uncropped 2.67 image derived from 4:3 x2 squeezes???

Regardless-- for some very silly reason, even when in video mode, the 5Diii doesn't have a function to take a frame grab at the same custom crop. This is so dumb! In stills mode, you can frame photos using the same custom overlay crop marks available in movie mode (2.67 and even 2.55) but the camera will again always take an uncropped picture. In other words, I've got the proper video aspect ratio covered (at least for a16x9 mode) but i'm stuck taking photos in 1.66 (3:2) or in 1.78 (16x9) or 1.33 (4:3). And there are no custom crop options at any resolution for when video is set to 4:3.

Do I need to buy an external recorder like an Atomos or some other brand??? However, if the these external recroders don't give an options to take frame grabs/snap shot stills, then they would be useless. Please confirm or deny. Or perhaps one of the blackmagic cameras will provide my needs and so i'll just sell my 5D in exchange for one that has these avialable functions of stills and video in the aspect ratio and crop factor/shooting modes I seek. Please confirm or deny this option is viable.

 

 

Bottom Line: I don't want to spend countless hours going through hundreds 16x9 or 4x3 photos, picking the bests ones, to then use some application to overlay a custom 2.55 letterbox created for the proper pixel dimensions of the stills, and then finally re-frame each picture one by one.

 

So basically--- I really need a better workflow, a different tool, and more expert advise on the best way to location scout for a project with a final exhibition format of 2.55:1 cinemascope.

I like to take photos, find shots, review them later and come back to them as reminders to show the DP, and eventually implement them into the film when come production months down the line.

- I don't need to take the anamorphic characteristics of DOF into consideration for these location scout exercises just yet.

- Resolution of the acquired stills and video footage do not matter (though knowing what the final pixel dimension is of a de-squeezed and uncropped 2.67 footage is on the Panavision Sony's and RED's cameras will be-- as well as what is the 2.55:1 cropped image on a 4K DCP are good references if anyone happens to know)

- Phone apps are NOT an accceptable solution.

I simply want to truly capture the same field of views vertically and horizontally but with using spherical lenses on some sort of device or system at the consumer or prosumer market level.


Let me know how the pros do it and what my work around is for my creative goal

thank you!

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The Canon 5D sensor is not 4:3, it's 3:2 (as are just about all dSLRs). When you switch to video mode, the camera crops the sensor to 16:9. If you are then adding a 2.66:1 crop then it will of course be impossible for you to maintain the full sensor height.

 

Spherical widescreen is achieved via cropping vertically. Anamorphic widescreen is achieved by stretching horizontally. While you can have the same aspect ratio either way, you can't have the same field of view on the same lens. You'd need to use a wider spherical lens to have the same vertical FoV

 

Here's a rough calculation, based on 16:9 versus 2.40:1. On a Canon 5D 16:9 sensor, a 50mm lens has a vertical FoV of 4' 0.5" at 10ft from the camera. When cropped to 2.40:1, it has a vertical FoV of 3ft at the same distance. In order to have the same vertical FoV you would need to switch to a 37mm lens. As far as I know, no one makes a 37mm, so a 35mm is the closest.

 

If the aspect ratio is all that matters then cropping will be fine, but if you need to match the focal lengths, then you either need to shoot with anamorphic lenses on your dSLR, or work out what the spherical equivalents would be.

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The Canon 5D sensor is not 4:3, it's 3:2 (as are just about all dSLRs). When you switch to video mode, the camera crops the sensor to 16:9. If you are then adding a 2.66:1 crop then it will of course be impossible for you to maintain the full sensor height.

 

If the aspect ratio is all that matters then cropping will be fine, but if you need to match the focal lengths, then you either need to shoot with anamorphic lenses on your dSLR, or work out what the spherical equivalents would be.

I've done some more research and completely agree.

 

What I've decided to do is simply use what I already have and shoot with my spherical lenses and frame for 2.55 in 16x9 mode. I'll double the width for the horizontal field of view by using a 12mm for mimicking 25mm anamorphic focal length and so on an so forth.

 

SO then for when shooting, all I need is to get a hold of some custom crop mark overlays for the camera, which are allow to be used via the ML hack.

Anybody out there already in possession of a 2.55 and 2.20 guide frames please do link here or make a quick one for download if you will be so kind. Every single time I attempt to edit the ones I already have in apps like Paintbrush, they upload into the camera fine but then the overlay doesn't show up (the black letter box masks are invisible) effectively displaying no cropmarks at all.... big headache. Ideally would have a clean and then a rule of thirds grid version for both 2.55 and 2.20.

 

 

Then on the post side, I simply need to find a very efficient way to overlay a permanent mask letter box mask onto the uncropped 16x9 images with an app that can apply it in a batch format with a sort of quick apply/quick edit function. The best suggested app to do this is greatly appreciated (also if you have a link to a tutorial that would be great)

Basically the Preview and Photos apps only have traditional crop functions... but I don't want to crop the photos, I much rather overlay a mask to these photos with a transparent center (so the original photo behind it will still be visible and Then I can practice resizing and repositioning if need be--- it's the same approach as is easily done in Avid using a 2.55 mask over across the entire timeline (which I will do with the video footage) but Also want a work around with stills.

It's all good practice and I'll simply adjust my framing by taking a few steps backward to get the desirable vertical height in camera while looking at the LiveView displaying the 2.55 mask

 

What do you think??? I does seem strange to me that there isn't some sort of tool that DP's and Director's use, which can PRINT, the compositions, with no crop factors/format differences to take into account, while out in the field doing these sort of scouts. Obviously director viewfinders are great but I'd like some sort of device which will take a frame grab of these viewfinder shots.

 

 

On an aside, I was looking at the new Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera about come out at $1200, which does have the proper sensor size for 4096 x 2160 (4K DCI)-- this is an almost perfect option... but it's micro 4/3's.... to say the least, I don't want be out in the field, and have to do the math conversion of micro 4/3 sensor crop factor conversion using my 35mm lenses and then in addittion do the sepherical to anamorphic horizontal conversion: nightmare.

 

I did discover that medium format still cameras like the FujiFilm GFX50s which do shoot in 4:3.... but from what I understand, the large option of 8256 x 6192 does exceed the image circle of normal 35mm lenses and thus the need for medium format lenses?.... or if not, the normal focal lengths of these 35mm lenses do change via some sort of equivalency equation? I was thinking, 'hey I could use this and set it to the small pixal setting of (4:3) 4000 x 3000 or use the (16:9) 4000 x 2248 to avoid the crop factor conversion when using my normal 35mm lenses BUT.... I still don't get to upload custom crop marks in camera like is possible via ML cameras and creating 16X9 container images off of 4:3 container images is a sort of extra step when creating and reviewing stills on widescreen latops and Imac displays... huh, what's a filmmaker to do?

 

 

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