Jump to content
Robino Jones

K3 Not keeping loop. Moves up.

Recommended Posts

I can't figure this out, the loop keeps going up.

 

See video for the issue - if anyone has any tips on solving this issue please let me know.

 

https://vimeo.com/288433643

Password: loop

 

..and PS, I know the film is not facing the right side - just test roll, i don't have a take up reel yet.

 

Thanks very much.

Edited by Robino Jones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...Update

 

If I roll the film around the pole that used to release the loop former, the upper loop sticks and bottom is held by that pole. It works and I checked the film for scratches, can't see any..

 

I'm not liking this workaround - anybody seen this before?

 

See pic for loop workaround.

 

IMG_0625.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That workaround is no good.. it seems you have an issue with the claw pulldown, so just pulling the film around a roller from the sprocket to keep the loop won't necessarily time the film movement with the shutter. You'll most likely end up with smeared images.

 

The reason the loop is moving up is because the sprocket keeps advancing the film, but the intermittent pulldown is missing a perf and not keeping the film moving through the gate at the same rate.

 

You need to examine the claw and gate to see why the film is not being properly advanced by the claw. It could be that the claw is somehow not aligned with the perfs, or it's worn and slipping, or the gate is contaminated and making the film stick, or the pressure plate is not closing properly to press the film against the gate and allow the claw to penetrate the perf, or some other issue like this that makes the claw skip a perf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The reason the loop is moving up is because the sprocket keeps advancing the film, but the intermittent pulldown is missing a perf and not keeping the film moving through the gate at the same rate.

 

Yes that's exactly what's happening. I saw this by advancing manually and it skips a perf here and there.

 

 

You need to examine the claw and gate to see why the film is not being properly advanced by the claw. It could be that the claw is somehow not aligned with the perfs, or it's worn and slipping, or the gate is contaminated and making the film stick, or the pressure plate is not closing properly to press the film against the gate and allow the claw to penetrate the perf, or some other issue like this that makes the claw skip a perf.

 

I took the gate out and cleaned it very well, the claw is moving inside a hole in the gate and it is secured by 5 screws with not much play to adjust it so I'm not sure how else the actual gate could be the culprit. Maybe it is I don't have experience with this camera.

 

I'll have to check alignment and pressure plate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, you’re having the film laced up the wrong way. The lighter side (dull amber) must face the aperture, the shiny black side is the backing. The stock should be wound EIB, that means Emulsion In, winding B. B wind means that the holes of single-row perforated stock are on the right hand side when the spool is held vertically and the stock coming off downward near you.

 

Second, learn that those Soviet cameras were slammed together by workers not well trained, mostly less-well payed women. Many examples have issues. Give your camera to the hands of a camera technician. Los Angeles should offer enough in that respect. Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First, you’re having the film laced up the wrong way. The lighter side (dull amber) must face the aperture, the shiny black side is the backing. The stock should be wound EIB, that means Emulsion In, winding B. B wind means that the holes of single-row perforated stock are on the right hand side when the spool is held vertically and the stock coming off downward near you.

 

 

I explained that in my original post.

 

 

This isn't the whole problem, but check that you have the sprocket guides closed. They should click into place.

 

 

The guides are closed and clicked - I really think the issue is with the claw as Dom said but that's beyond home repair (for me) at this point - I'll try to find someone to look at in in the Los Angeles area - if anyone has tech suggestions let me know - thanks everyone.

Edited by Robino Jones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Presumably you've tried it with the film in the correct wind. Unlikely, but it's still possible the emulsion is sticking on the pressure plate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Presumably you've tried it with the film in the correct wind. Unlikely, but it's still possible the emulsion is sticking on the pressure plate.

 

Thanks Mark - That's a good guess and I tried it the correct way as well - it still is loosing the loop either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So yea, correct wind would be step one.

 

I've seen this happen with my K3, for some reason the spring that holds the pressure plate in position was super weak and the pressure plate would simply wobble all over the place and not keep the film in place. With a slight change to the position of the little cup that holds the spring, I put a tiny bit more pressure on the pressure plate and BAM problem went away.

 

You can always bring it by, I'm pretty good with the K3, I got mine working really well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen this happen with my K3, for some reason the spring that holds the pressure plate in position was super weak and the pressure plate would simply wobble all over the place and not keep the film in place. With a slight change to the position of the little cup that holds the spring, I put a tiny bit more pressure on the pressure plate and BAM problem went away.

 

You can always bring it by, I'm pretty good with the K3, I got mine working really well.

 

Thanks Tyler - I just tried moving the pin in and added more pressure, tried different levels of pressure but the claw is still is skipping some perfs, Maybe I should bring it - i'll call you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Tyler - I just tried moving the pin in and added more pressure, tried different levels of pressure but the claw is still is skipping some perfs, Maybe I should bring it - i'll call you.

Yea I can fix that in a jiff, I'm sure it's something silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Vladislav Evdokimov said:

I have the same problem with my K3, did you find a solution?

Sadly we never really found a solution. I got it working A LOT better, but no matter what, it would skip every once in a while. We compared it to my camera and there was NO difference. The pulldown was not pulling the film down on every rotation of the movement, but nothing indicated it being broken or out of calibration. Someday I'd like another shot at servicing it, just to see if I can get it working better. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for reply, that's sad.
I've disassebmled the front mechanism on mine completely, lubricated but it doesn't help either. My second K3 is new and works great, but it has m42 mount and I prefer bayonet for wide-angle lens (no planning super16).
Maybe it is possible to swap the front part completely in order to change lens mount between cameras?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Vladislav Evdokimov said:

Thanks for reply, that's sad.
I've disassebmled the front mechanism on mine completely, lubricated but it doesn't help either. My second K3 is new and works great, but it has m42 mount and I prefer bayonet for wide-angle lens (no planning super16).
Maybe it is possible to swap the front part completely in order to change lens mount between cameras?

Yea you could try that! Just gotta re-check the flange distance however. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, sorry for being a little off topic by bringing my own problems into the mix here, but could anyone look at this video and tell me if the rocking back and forth of the loops is normal and if not what could be done to fix it?

 

any feedback would be greatly appreciated!!

thanks

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The flange distance is different 45.46mm on M42 and 52mm on Bayonet.
I've done the swap yesterday and just by looking through the viewfinder focusing seems okay.
But I know that the tolerance for the film plane is very small and I can't check that without shooting actual film...
 

As for loop moving Marc I think it's normal for k-3. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Vladislav Evdokimov said:

The flange distance is different 45.46mm on M42 and 52mm on Bayonet.

That's what I kinda thought. You can go deeper into the film plane, but not the opposite way. It'll always look good in the viewfinder because you're just focusing to the ground glass. You do need to measure flange distance. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got it, I'd better find another nos k3 body or stay with m42 for now.

Is hand processing an option with kodak/fuji ecn stocks? Just for test purposes.
Nearest film lab is in another city.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Vladislav Evdokimov said:

Got it, I'd better find another nos k3 body or stay with m42 for now.

Is hand processing an option with kodak/fuji ecn stocks? Just for test purposes.
Nearest film lab is in another city.

Reading about your K3 issues brought back some bad loops PTSD.

Yes I think getting another body might be the solution or even better, get a Bolex equivalent, I hear they are much better.

I abandoned trying to solve the issue after I disassembled the entire thing, really getting in it and still could not figure it out what the problem was. Not worth the time. I was going to throw it down the balcony but I opted for the trashcan instead where it belongs. I kept the lens and the K3 metal plate as souvenirs.

Best of luck to you, I know how frustrating it can be.
 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only reason why I choose k3 was because it can be found very cheap in russia and there are tons of them.
But yeah, the build quality is shitty. If I won't be dissapointed after first few rolls of film I'll definitely consider bolex or renting arri sr3 or 416. 

Thanks for support! I'm on the first floor so balcony is not an option = )

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tyler Purcell said:

Yea that's totally normal... but make your loops a tiny bit bigger. 

Thanks for the quick reply!

so just to make sure, I don’t have to worry about the image looking like it’s jumping or anything right? I was just worried when I saw videos online of others loading their k3’s and their loops seemed to keep completely still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Tai Audio



    Glidecam



    Metropolis Post



    Paralinx LLC



    Gamma Ray Digital Inc



    Serious Gear



    Broadcast Solutions Inc



    Visual Products



    Wooden Camera



    Rig Wheels Passport



    Abel Cine



    New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment



    Ritter Battery



    CineLab



    Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS


×
×
  • Create New...