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David Scott

questions about a few things

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First question - canon 1014 xls... They're selling on eBay for $5-900. I've been wanting one, but it's really difficult to justify spending that much. Either way, I keep reading that once the light meter goes out, the camera becomes totally useless with no possible repair. If this is correct, then no matter how good the camera is, that makes up my mind not to buy it. Is this correct? No possible repair? How likely is it for the light meter to fail? Etc.?

 

Next question - is there a list of super 8 cameras that do lap dissolves? That seems to me to be the most complex function a movie camera could perform and the main reason I want the 1014 xls mentioned above. I know some other cameras do it (agfa moviexoom 10, yashica electro 8 something, Minolta autopak 8 d12, sankyo 620 supertronic), but I haven't had much luck finding a working example on ebay, partly because people tend to act like they don't know how to operate the camera rather than tell you it doesn't work.

 

Lastly, for tonight... Anybody know if that Kodak super 8 camera is actually ever going to make it to store shelves?

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The Canon 1014XL-S was incredibly expensive at retail originally. So $500+ is fine for a fully working example. Most parts can be replaced or repaired. Plus any old kit deserves to be serviced. I have owned dozens of them and all needed to be maintained or ideally regularly used.

 

I hardly ever use in camera lap dissolves now as most of my footage ends up edited on Pre or FCP. However I can recommend the Yashica Electro 8 LD-6 and LD-8, along with the Sankyo Supertronic XL-620 for the function.

 

I was told by a Kodak Rep in December to "keep my eyes peeled" for the Kodak Super 8 camera. It has been a long wait and even a few friends who work for Kodak haven't a clue on it's progress. So your guess is as good as mine!

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Never heard of troubles with 1014XLs as you describe. These are fine machines with features the new Kodak will never have. Apart from actually being there to use at all :)

 

Nikon R10 and R8 were the first with built-in dissolve/fade over 100 frames max.

These can be found in good condition and they have by far the best lens in Super-8 world (despite people claiming otherwise), also they are the single model in super-8 which have a specially designed film gate which forces the film in the focal plane :)

 

Sometimes they can be a bit noisy. The exposure system can go being stuck where the actuator can no longer move the aperture blades from their base position. Which is troublesome to have repaired :(.

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...and they have by far the best lens in Super-8 world (despite people claiming otherwise

 

I love Nikon but better than this lens on the black Jubilee edition? Angenieux f1.2 6-80?

 

beaulieu_4008_jubilee.jpg

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I love Nikon but better than this lens on the black Jubilee edition? Angenieux f1.2 6-80?

 

beaulieu_4008_jubilee.jpg

I'll give it a try some sunny day, on rare document film in super-8. I have both cameras and a tripod. :)

Edited by Andries Molenaar

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Well, thanks for the info so far. I have read multiple times on multiple forums that the meter in the 1014xls is something that can fail and that when it does, it can't be controlled manually either because the manual control is electronically tied to the auto exposure meter system. That's just what I have read. If that's wrong, please correct me.

 

Next, as far as lens sharpness, I have heard the Nikon r8 was the sharpest, with the 1014xls and beaulieu/angenieu and r10 very close, also heard the agfa moviexoom 10 was really sharp. I've watched a TON of YouTube and vimeo videos showing all of these and honestly can't tell the lens differences, just the scan resolutions.

 

So, for lap dissolves, the sankyo is good, is the lens?

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Regarding the Canon 1014XL-S, I bought one of these new around 1981/2. It ended up going back in its case a couple of years later - where it sat for 36 years unused (in yearly Queensland heat and humidity). It later became my dad's, and he gave it to my nephew, but was still unused. Just a few months ago my nephew got married, and he grabbed the camera case out from under a bed and handed it to me. I put new batteries in it and it instantly worked perfectly, and I shot the wedding on 2 rolls. The exposure meter was fine. I don't know if that helps. I really was surprised that all was fine with it.

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Oh, I was consulted on that! I said to Dad, give it to my nephew, as he was interested in film animation and was just about to leave school and was thinking about getting a camera. So Dad checked with me first. Also, at the time, we all thought (including my nephew) that film was slowly on the way out. It seems to be bouncing back. Now he's got a highly sought-after camera and Super 8 is getting really fashionable again.

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I've got an 814XL-S (similar enough but no lap dissolve) and it really is a beauty of a camera. I haven't heard of many of them dying honestly. And so feature-rich and solid lens. Definitely not the sharpest though, especially wide open. But that said, it's really one of the greatest S8 cameras out there and worth the investment. I got mine for a steal as it was broken but having used it so much now, I'd throw down the cash for another if this one bites the dust. Just being able to switch from 150º to 220º is clutch!

 

Also from my research I've read the R8 is actually less sharp than the R10. But also I want to toss in the Nizo 801M in to the running for its extremely sharp lens AND..... lap dissolve! Ha. I also have a Agfa MOVEXOOM 10 (ok I have a problem!) and do like the camera. Very similar to the Nizo (apparently got sued because of that) and great although I've only hand processed film I've shot with that so can't attest to its sharpness. Dimmer viewfinder though... But.... Nizo's are harder to service. Du-All in NYC services both the Nizo 801 and the Canon 814XL-S and 1014XL-S (and Beaulieu I think).

 

Although to be honest, as said before, the lap dissolve button doesn't get any use on my Nizo because I can just do that in post and no need to risk the shot not fading perfectly. Is there a reason you must have this feature? Is your project staying fully analog?

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I'll give it a try some sunny day, on rare document film in super-8. I have both cameras and a tripod. :)

 

Is there a camera you don't have? :rolleyes:

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Nick, yes, fully analog until the final scan after editing. At least I think that's what I want to do... :j

 

I want to see the dissolves happen in the projected form. It's purely for the aesthetic, but also for the possible future showing. I THINK I WANT to get a positive copy sound-striped and project it.

 

The idea starts to get away from me sometimes, thinking I want to roject it publicly, with other submissions, media, etc. Basically building a new, analog, local film festival. But, that's a long shot. Right now, I just want to watch a completed version of my current project projected with sound.

 

I ordered a used agfa movexoom 6. We'll see how that goes when it gets here. I will keep the 1014xls as my ultimate goal in this format, but I do also want to do some regular 8 and 16mm. I've done plenty of video, nothing professionally, but never liked the look of it. So far, all of this is more like a hobby to me, but I am starting to lean into it harder...

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So far, all of this is more like a hobby to me, but I am starting to lean into it harder...

 

My friend... one does not lean into shooting film. One falls headfirst into the awesome black hole that is shooting film. haha. You'll soon get sucked in. Trust me. I started shooting Super 8 like 4 years ago on a whim and now have shot ~150 rolls and currently have a 16mm Arri SR2 sitting in my studio on loan. :D

 

Good luck with the film! Post it here when you're finished.

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I thought about the r10 also, but there was only 1 with a working light meter on eBay and it was the same price as the canon... Either way, good info here, will definitely post the film, results of the agfa and any other related info.

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Nikon R10 .... The exposure system can go being stuck where the actuator can no longer move the aperture blades from their base position. Which is troublesome to have repaired :(.

 

I can confirm from my own experience that the light meter in the R10 can get stuck and it is between $250 - $300 to repair , depending on who gives you the estimate. The best price estimate I was quoted for repair on the R10 light meter was from MicroDelta in Spain (about $80.00 U.S. dollars for repairing the stuck light meter) , but if you are in the U.S. the shipping there and back is going to run about $200 .

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So far, the movexoom 6 has issues... Light meter seems to never move from f-stop 4, slomo 54 fps seems not to be working and lens does not seem to focus all the way to infinity. Needless to say, I'm still looking...

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So far, the movexoom 6 has issues... Light meter seems to never move from f-stop 4, slomo 54 fps seems not to be working and lens does not seem to focus all the way to infinity. Needless to say, I'm still looking...

The movexoom 6??? It is only your camera which acts like that and not a general feature of these cameras

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Nick, yes, fully analog until the final scan after editing. At least I think that's what I want to do... :j

 

I want to see the dissolves happen in the projected form. It's purely for the aesthetic, but also for the possible future showing. I THINK I WANT to get a positive copy sound-striped and project it.

 

 

You seem to be proposing to project negative, which isn't a good idea because of the risk of damage. As tape splices cover at least 2 complete frames in Super-8, they will also be visible. Andec in German do make prints, at considerable expense, but sound striping is pretty well extinct. The quality was never very good.

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The movexoom 6??? It is only your camera which acts like that and not a general feature of these cameras

I realize that. Thanks.

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You seem to be proposing to project negative, which isn't a good idea because of the risk of damage. As tape splices cover at least 2 complete frames in Super-8, they will also be visible. Andec in German do make prints, at considerable expense, but sound striping is pretty well extinct. The quality was never very good.

I know I said "positive copy" but I just meant a copy with no splices. I'm shooting on new ektachrome and tri-x.

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And lastly, I went ahead and pulled the trigger last night and bought a 1014xls from Japan. I hope there aren't any customs issues and everything works properly as described. I'll be selling the movexoom on eBay with all of it's problems listed. Which means no one will buy it and I will end up taking it apart under the false pretence that I could possibly repair it and then throwing it away after a few whiskeys. I'll post pics. :P

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All the used Japanese camera products I have bought on ebay were in excellent condition and there was no customs charges to the US. Good luck and let us know how this works out for you.

And lastly, I went ahead and pulled the trigger last night and bought a 1014xls from Japan. I hope there aren't any customs issues and everything works properly as described. I'll be selling the movexoom on eBay with all of it's problems listed. Which means no one will buy it and I will end up taking it apart under the false pretence that I could possibly repair it and then throwing it away after a few whiskeys. I'll post pics. :P

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You could also consider the older Canon 1014 Autozoom Electronic which can do dissolves. They generally go for cheaper prices on eBay compared to the 1014 XL-S. Also an advantage of the AE is it's top running speed of 54fps. The XL-S can only go as high as 36fps.

Edited by Patrick Cooper

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Thanks for the suggestion, I actually did consider it very seriously, specifically for the 54fps, lap dissolves and no sound, but, there wasn't a working one on eBay priced well at the time I was ready. I have heard they're noisy too, but I really don't know.

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